Kids Snached From Church Tonight - No One Will Help !!

[mamadi]

What is the name of your state? North Carolina

Anyone that can help ...please ! My two children (I have custody) were snatched out of church tonight by their mother (NCP) ! I've gone to the magistrate. I'm still waiting on police to get here, but no one seems to be able to help until tomorrow !!

She called me around 6:30 and said "I just want you to know that I took the kids and you're not going to see them again !" Then she hung up ! We ran to the church down the road and they told us that some woman walked in and called them over (of course they recognized her as mom). Then they left with her before anybody could find out what was going on.

There are no current court order papers. Only ones that were made while she was living in Buffalo. She moved back here in November. The papers do state that she have the children for a certain amount of weeks during the summer....but that was geared toward out of state visitation . Do they still stand today ? It doesn't matter though does it ? She just snatched the kids without me ever knowing it. I also just found out from some neighborhood kids that she had been scouting out the neighborhood today. She was riding around for a while apparently watching for the kids.

What do I do now ?

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state? North Carolina

Anyone that can help ...please ! My two children (I have custody) were snatched out of church tonight by their mother (NCP) ! I've gone to the magistrate. I'm still waiting on police to get here, but no one seems to be able to help until tomorrow !!

She called me around 6:30 and said "I just want you to know that I took the kids and you're not going to see them again !" Then she hung up ! We ran to the church down the road and they told us that some woman walked in and called them over (of course they recognized her as mom). Then they left with her before anybody could find out what was going on.

There are no current court order papers. Only ones that were made while she was living in Buffalo. She moved back here in November. The papers do state that she have the children for a certain amount of weeks during the summer....but that was geared toward out of state visitation . Do they still stand today ? It doesn't matter though does it ? She just snatched the kids without me ever knowing it. I also just found out from some neighborhood kids that she had been scouting out the neighborhood today. She was riding around for a while apparently watching for the kids.

What do I do now ?

The orders still stand and ARE CURRENT COURT ORDERS if they were signed by the judge. Doesn't matter when they were made really. She did let you know she took the kids before you found out from anyone else. Is that right? Not necessarily but it is not kidnapping. The police will not do anything because this is a civil matter. Mom is mom. She hs rights to the children. The magistrate would have to enforce the court order but until you can get said order domesticated (if the order was made by a different court than your local one). You may be able to get a magistrate to order that mom produce the children within 24 hours or a warrant will be issued. And then the police can become involved.

 

[mamadi]

My husband is working with the police right now to try to find the kids. They said as long as the papers show that he has primary custody, she has no right to snatch them from the church without him knowing about it.

So you are telling me that because she is "the mother" she can do whatever she wants whenever she wants, including taking the children out of a church .

 

[Ohiogal]

My husband is working with the police right now to try to find the kids. They said as long as the papers show that he has primary custody, she has no right to snatch them from the church without him knowing about it.

So you are telling me that because she is "the mother" she can do whatever she wants whenever she wants, including taking the children out of a church .

He did know about it though. He knows she has them. She called and told him. And she is not "the mother". She is the children's mother. YOu are a legal stranger and need to deal with that. What i am saying is that it is a civil matter and that is why the police most likely would not help -- which is what you said in your first post. The police have no right to interpret a CIVIL court order or truthfully to enforce a civil court order.

 

[LdiJ]

He did know about it though. He knows she has them. She called and told him. And she is not "the mother". She is the children's mother. YOu are a legal stranger and need to deal with that. What i am saying is that it is a civil matter and that is why the police most likely would not help -- which is what you said in your first post. The police have no right to interpret a CIVIL court order or truthfully to enforce a civil court order.

I apparently sounds like the police ARE willing to help.

My husband is working with the police right now to try to find the kids. They said as long as the papers show that he has primary custody, she has no right to snatch them from the church without him knowing about it.

 

[mamadi]

I understand what you are saying, but you have to sit back and honestly see that there is something wrong with this picture ! I am a "legal stranger" that has been raising these children for 5 years while their mother ran off to New York with her boyfriend. Yes, I am sorry that I have feelings and love for two children.

Aside from that, I will sit back and become a legal stranger. As a legal stranger I still say there is something wrong if their mother can walk into the church sanctuary and take them without their father having any knowledge of it until after the fact. I have kids coming to my door now telling me they saw her and her boyfriend scouting the neighborhood today. Is that okay also ? And it's okay for her to call and say "I took the kids and you're not going to see them again" ? That's okay because she is their mother ???

Just about 90% of the time that she calls and asks to get the kids , she does. The other 10% they may have plans or something. In fact she just dropped of the oldest child today because he had spent last night and today with her.

I don't get it, even as a legal stranger.

 

[Silverplum]

I'm sorry this has happened to your family and caused such upset.

But I did want to let you know that, while I personally agree that a church is a holy place and should be treated in every possible way as such, it is no longer a "legal sanctuary" as it may have been treated in the past. If it were me in my dealings with the cops/etc., I would try to leave out the indignation that it happened at church.

 

[casa]

I understand what you are saying, but you have to sit back and honestly see that there is something wrong with this picture ! I am a "legal stranger" that has been raising these children for 5 years while their mother ran off to New York with her boyfriend. Yes, I am sorry that I have feelings and love for two children.

Aside from that, I will sit back and become a legal stranger. As a legal stranger I still say there is something wrong if their mother can walk into the church sanctuary and take them without their father having any knowledge of it until after the fact. I have kids coming to my door now telling me they saw her and her boyfriend scouting the neighborhood today. Is that okay also ? And it's okay for her to call and say "I took the kids and you're not going to see them again" ? That's okay because she is their mother ???

Just about 90% of the time that she calls and asks to get the kids , she does. The other 10% they may have plans or something. In fact she just dropped of the oldest child today because he had spent last night and today with her.

I don't get it, even as a legal stranger.

Is it Morally 'Right'? No. But, since your husband didn't bother to update his Court Order...he's stuck with the existing one. And, if the existing one shows her 'visitation' to be during this time-period~ It can get complicated. Can you understand why? The Court Order says Mom has the kids X days....Dad & Mom make an agreement on the 'side', which the law cannot recognize because it isn't aware of it, since Mom & Dad didn't make it legal.

Since she DID threaten to not return them & that he'd "never see them again"...THAT may help in terms of the police pursuing a possible parental abduction. That would be up to them to determine though.

 

[Ohiogal]

I apparently sounds like the police ARE willing to help.

And in her first post she said NO ONE was willing to help until tomorrow when the courts open.

 

[mamadi]

Yes, In the first post I did say "no on was able to help". That was before my husband drove around the county until he found someone to help. He was not going to sit around and wait for someone to come to him. The police did find the kids at her boyfriend's parents house in the next county.
You guys were right. There was nothing they could do because the papers are not updated. But there can be something done today. The old papers state that the NCP have the children for summer vacation up until two weeks before school starts (this was regarding when she lived in NY). Why would she not even mention all summer that she wanted the kids for a period of time ? My husband would have been glad to oblige, but there was no mention of it except for a week period where she took them to Buffalo. IN fact she had her lawyer type something up showing the dates and when the kids would be returned home. Her work schedule is eratic so whenever she called and said she had the day off or the weekend off she normally picked up the kids !! They both had recently agreed that she would start giving a two week notice on when she wanted the kids. Because here lately if the kids had plans (summer camp, pool parties, etc) she would get pissed at the kids and make them feel like crap if they had something else going on.
In the meantime, my husband has been trying to get new visitation papers made up. Her & her lawyer kept coming back saying "we dont' know how to word it" !!
My daughter (excuse me -- my step daughter) and her friend have a garage full of stuff ready to have a yard sale tomorrow. They also have our camper packed because we've been planning a camping trip for weeks (this weekend). My step son has a doctor's appointment this mornig -- all of this known by mom.
If she wanted the kids and wanted to go by the papers all of a sudden , why didn't she just say something ? She did when she wanted to take them to Buffalo for a week. It was fine. She snapped -- took the kids from their Bible class at church and thinks she can get away with it. This is not the first time this has happened . Something needs to be done from keeping this from happening again.
Can we not send the kids anywhere ? A couple years ago she tried to take them from school and bring them to Buffalo where she was living.
How do we ensure this cannot continue to happen ?

 

[LdiJ]

Your husband needs to get the orders changed. That is how you resolve it.

 

[Ohiogal]

Yes, In the first post I did say "no on was able to help". That was before my husband drove around the county until he found someone to help. He was not going to sit around and wait for someone to come to him. The police did find the kids at her boyfriend's parents house in the next county.
You guys were right. There was nothing they could do because the papers are not updated.

That is because this is a civil matter and there are court orders. She is the mother. She is the children's legal parent.

But there can be something done today. The old papers state that the NCP have the children for summer vacation up until two weeks before school starts (this was regarding when she lived in NY).

Doesn't matter. She has a right ot have them up until two weeks before school starts. So when does school start? if there is nothing in the paperwork about her forfeiting visitation if she does not take them for the whole summer then she is entitled to that time.

Why would she not even mention all summer that she wanted the kids for a period of time ?

Quite frankly the papers grant her that time by court order and unless the papers state she has to mention if she will use it then she doesn't. It is assumed that it is her time.

My husband would have been glad to oblige, but there was no mention of it except for a week period where she took them to Buffalo. IN fact she had her lawyer type something up showing the dates and when the kids would be returned home.

And she did not even have to do that.

Her work schedule is eratic so whenever she called and said she had the day off or the weekend off she normally picked up the kids !! They both had recently agreed that she would start giving a two week notice on when she wanted the kids.

And this agreement is NOT binding.

Because here lately if the kids had plans (summer camp, pool parties, etc) she would get pissed at the kids and make them feel like crap if they had something else going on.

Because summer is mom's time per the papers and her visitation overrides whatever plans the kids may have. If mom wants her visitation, mom gets it.

In the meantime, my husband has been trying to get new visitation papers made up. Her & her lawyer kept coming back saying "we dont' know how to word it" !!

She does not have to agree to anything. She can keep the papers as they are.

My daughter (excuse me -- my step daughter) and her friend have a garage full of stuff ready to have a yard sale tomorrow. They also have our camper packed because we've been planning a camping trip for weeks (this weekend). My step son has a doctor's appointment this mornig -- all of this known by mom.

So? This is mom's time. Mom can take the child to the doctor if she so chooses. you planned a camping trip for weeks on MOM'S time. You can't do that. Because unless the order states that she has forfeited her time she hasn't. The court order overrides your plans.The court order overrides the yard sale.

If she wanted the kids and wanted to go by the papers all of a sudden , why didn't she just say something ?

She did say something. She called and told dad she picked up the kids. Is it nice? No. But she did say something. Now she didn't ask his permission which seems to be your gripe.

She did when she wanted to take them to Buffalo for a week. It was fine. She snapped -- took the kids from their Bible class at church and thinks she can get away with it. This is not the first time this has happened . Something needs to be done from keeping this from happening again.

Technically she can get away with it because the court papers state that she has the children until two weeks before school. So this is HER time. HERS. Per the court order. Nice? No. But dad has to file in court and move to get the order changed.

Can we not send the kids anywhere ? A couple years ago she tried to take them from school and bring them to Buffalo where she was living.
How do we ensure this cannot continue to happen ?

You cannot but on dad's time dad can send the kids. On mom's time she can pick the kids up. Dad can go back to court and petition for a modification.

 

[mamadi]

Thanks for honesty. It's sad, but true. The sad part is that everything is to be in the best interest of the kids . Is the way she went about this in the best interest of the kids ? They are already in counseling because of the things she says and does.

Well, dad will be working on things further today. It was a long night. I see what everyone is saying "she is the mother, it's her summer visitation legally" . But goodness ! There was certainly a better way to handle this, especially for the kids sake !

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks for honesty. It's sad, but true. The sad part is that everything is to be in the best interest of the kids . Is the way she went about this in the best interest of the kids ? They are already in counseling because of the things she says and does.

Well, dad will be working on things further today. It was a long night. I see what everyone is saying "she is the mother, it's her summer visitation legally" . But goodness ! There was certainly a better way to handle this, especially for the kids sake !

I cannot disagree with you at all there....unfortunately some people prefer drama.

 

[mamadi]

It comes down to learning how to be an adult too. Why sneak around ? Can you not pick up the telephone and say "hey I'd like to go ahead and use my summer visitation now". It would be questionable after all this time has gone by without her going by any papers -- especially at Christmas when it was to be "dad's time" but he so kindly shared it with mom --even though the papers didn't state that !
But now that it's convenient for her and she is pissed because her daughter didn't want to do something --it's whatever Holly wants !

She does the same thing when she wants to get them or maybe keep them longer, or change the times , etc. She uses the kids to do all the negotiating. All I can say is Grow Up. Why can't some people just be normal and do the right thing ---once agan for the kids sake !!

Someone asked earlier when school started back. It starts back August 27th. So technically her "summer visitation" ends on August 11th (next Saturday). All this drama for nine days. All she had to do was say something -- not develop an indepth plan to capture the children from church !!