LdiJ
Senior Member
The more money the realtor gets out of you the greater the realtor's commission. The less money the realtor spent on repairs during your tenancy, the greater the realtor's commissions as well.
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Landlord not returning security deposit and asking to cover extra cost
- Thread starter kayals
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when the realtor told you >She kept saying the appliances are there for convenience and not something to be repaired or replaced. < I hope now you understand what a crock of bovine excrement that was , A tenant who rents housing that has appliances in place has a reasonable expectation that those items are included in the rent. When or If a landlord or the landlords agent tries to claim the lease doesnt say those are included as a way to get out of fixing them be firm and tell them you would be happy to let a judge tell them how full of it they are if it comes to that. Even a judge would likely agree with you that a lease that does not specifically exclude appliances in a rental unit gives the impression they are included and for a landlord to claim other wise is misleading since you could have refused to rent a place that did not included appliances. If you ever run into another rental unit that has appliances standing but not listed on a lease you are free to insist if the LL add them onto the lease or completely removed them from the property since your not interested in storing the LLs appliances and if the LL comes back and says those are for your convenience just shake your head and say NO dice and walk away. ( there are a tiny minority of LLs who claim they dont have to fix a appliance but sure get their shorts in a knot when tenants dispose of non working appliances of landlord.
Is it in my favor that landlord visually inspected walk out when handing over the keys. They never provided me a check out sheet, and verbally commented the condition is good. Realtor was not present when I handed over the keys to the landlord who came to inspect after professional carpet clean.
Here is the letter I received in mail.
——————
There were several issues with the home you rented at the above referenced address. Please see a list of charges
against your security deposit below:
1)
Replace the stove (stove was new upon move in, cook top was not cleaned properly and is ruined)
Cost on
Range $725.81, Delivery and Install $202.26, Total $958.07 + 57.48 sales tax. $1015.55 Haul away old $30.00.
Grand Total $1045.55
2) Replace the microwave (both microwave and stove are grease covered and unsalvageable) Cost $312.55,
Delivery & Install $149.00 Total $461.55 + $29.49 sales tax Grand Total $491.04
3)
Rat problem in the basement. (as per your lease agreement, pest control is the responsibility of the tenant)
$375.00
4)
Patching the wall nail holes, primer sealing the crayon marks, and primer sealing burn wall and ceiling of
2nd floor bedroom. Remove damaged/torn wallpaper. $950.00
5) Replace window blinds that were new upon your move in X's 10 @ $40 each. $400.00
6)
Replacing 2nd floor bath light fixture. $35.00
7)
Remove & replace carpet (See enclosed estimate) while you paid to have the carpeting cleaned, there is still
a smell of dog urine throughout the home. Upon further inspection, the urine permeated the carpeting, padding
and wood flooring throughout the home. All carpeting and padding need to be removed and replaced. $6,956.00
8)
Replace 2 broken window well covers @ $68.00 each. $136.00
9)
Clean entire home including scrubbing floors, bathroom, windows, window sills and base boards. $330.00.
The total so far for repairs is $10,718.59, which far exceeds your security deposit of $1,650.00. It leaves a balance
of $9,068.59 due to the owner for repairs. You can make your check out to Landlord and send to our office
address below. If payment is not made within 30 days of receipt of this letter, Mr. Yyyy will be filing a civil claim
in Magisterial District Court with Judge xxxxx for damages, plus court costs and attorney fees.
——————
There were several issues with the home you rented at the above referenced address. Please see a list of charges
against your security deposit below:
1)
Replace the stove (stove was new upon move in, cook top was not cleaned properly and is ruined)
Cost on
Range $725.81, Delivery and Install $202.26, Total $958.07 + 57.48 sales tax. $1015.55 Haul away old $30.00.
Grand Total $1045.55
2) Replace the microwave (both microwave and stove are grease covered and unsalvageable) Cost $312.55,
Delivery & Install $149.00 Total $461.55 + $29.49 sales tax Grand Total $491.04
3)
Rat problem in the basement. (as per your lease agreement, pest control is the responsibility of the tenant)
$375.00
4)
Patching the wall nail holes, primer sealing the crayon marks, and primer sealing burn wall and ceiling of
2nd floor bedroom. Remove damaged/torn wallpaper. $950.00
5) Replace window blinds that were new upon your move in X's 10 @ $40 each. $400.00
6)
Replacing 2nd floor bath light fixture. $35.00
7)
Remove & replace carpet (See enclosed estimate) while you paid to have the carpeting cleaned, there is still
a smell of dog urine throughout the home. Upon further inspection, the urine permeated the carpeting, padding
and wood flooring throughout the home. All carpeting and padding need to be removed and replaced. $6,956.00
8)
Replace 2 broken window well covers @ $68.00 each. $136.00
9)
Clean entire home including scrubbing floors, bathroom, windows, window sills and base boards. $330.00.
The total so far for repairs is $10,718.59, which far exceeds your security deposit of $1,650.00. It leaves a balance
of $9,068.59 due to the owner for repairs. You can make your check out to Landlord and send to our office
address below. If payment is not made within 30 days of receipt of this letter, Mr. Yyyy will be filing a civil claim
in Magisterial District Court with Judge xxxxx for damages, plus court costs and attorney fees.
Exact date you moved out of the unit and returned keys ? If it was me I would want to argue almost every thing here or at least ask in court for the LL to show what the depreciated values were of each item charged for ! So Item number one
1)
Replace the stove (stove was new upon move in, cook top was not cleaned properly and is ruined)
Cost on
Range $725.81, Delivery and Install $202.26, Total $958.07 + 57.48 sales tax. $1015.55 Haul away old $30.00.
Grand Total $1045.55 SO im curious, was this a glass topped stove and did your landlord provide to you very specific cleaning instructions ? ( if it was a glass top stove not only should the LL have protected them self better by including what types of cleaners to use BUT also spell out in writing what kinds of cook ware to use since standard pans can scratch the H out of glass tops. Item number 2
2) Replace the microwave (both microwave and stove are grease covered and unsalvageable) Cost $312.55,
Delivery & Install $149.00 Total $461.55 + $29.49 sales tax Grand Total $491.04
) how old aprox is this item and grease can indeed be cleaned off so at best if you left it dirty charging you to clean it would have been fair. Item 3 kind of hard to argue unless this just happened since fall is the time when rodents want in . Item 4
4)
Patching the wall nail holes, primer sealing the crayon marks, and primer sealing burn wall and ceiling of
2nd floor bedroom. Remove damaged/torn wallpaper. $950.00 patching nail holes is fair primer to get crayon marks gone is fair , Burn wall ? what the heck is that ? torn wall paper , how old is the wall paper in order to determine if its useful life was consumed - depreciation value_______ ? Item 5 5) Replace window blinds that were new upon your move in X's 10 @ $40 each. $400.00 < so again what is the useful life - depreciated value of those blinds ? 6 was the glass to the bathroom light broken ? if so then you owe for the glass but not a whole new light. Item 7 >
7)
Remove & replace carpet (See enclosed estimate) while you paid to have the carpeting cleaned, there is still
a smell of dog urine throughout the home. Upon further inspection, the urine permeated the carpeting, padding
and wood flooring throughout the home. All carpeting and padding need to be removed and replaced. $6,956.00
did your lease permit you to have a dog and if it did and the dog did indeed pee on the floors treating the wood flooring is a fair charge , Padding arguable since it was almost 6 years old , carpet itself arguable and both the carpet and padding have had alot if not all use ful life consumed SO in court you want to know when was the carpet installed and if it was brand new when you moved in argue that the carpet had little value left when you moved out , if that carpet was more than one year old at the time you moved in then it had no useful life at all unless it was some kind of very fancy extended life carpet that was to have a longer use ful life ( owner should have records of that )
1)
Replace the stove (stove was new upon move in, cook top was not cleaned properly and is ruined)
Cost on
Range $725.81, Delivery and Install $202.26, Total $958.07 + 57.48 sales tax. $1015.55 Haul away old $30.00.
Grand Total $1045.55 SO im curious, was this a glass topped stove and did your landlord provide to you very specific cleaning instructions ? ( if it was a glass top stove not only should the LL have protected them self better by including what types of cleaners to use BUT also spell out in writing what kinds of cook ware to use since standard pans can scratch the H out of glass tops. Item number 2
2) Replace the microwave (both microwave and stove are grease covered and unsalvageable) Cost $312.55,
Delivery & Install $149.00 Total $461.55 + $29.49 sales tax Grand Total $491.04
) how old aprox is this item and grease can indeed be cleaned off so at best if you left it dirty charging you to clean it would have been fair. Item 3 kind of hard to argue unless this just happened since fall is the time when rodents want in . Item 4
4)
Patching the wall nail holes, primer sealing the crayon marks, and primer sealing burn wall and ceiling of
2nd floor bedroom. Remove damaged/torn wallpaper. $950.00 patching nail holes is fair primer to get crayon marks gone is fair , Burn wall ? what the heck is that ? torn wall paper , how old is the wall paper in order to determine if its useful life was consumed - depreciation value_______ ? Item 5 5) Replace window blinds that were new upon your move in X's 10 @ $40 each. $400.00 < so again what is the useful life - depreciated value of those blinds ? 6 was the glass to the bathroom light broken ? if so then you owe for the glass but not a whole new light. Item 7 >
7)
Remove & replace carpet (See enclosed estimate) while you paid to have the carpeting cleaned, there is still
a smell of dog urine throughout the home. Upon further inspection, the urine permeated the carpeting, padding
and wood flooring throughout the home. All carpeting and padding need to be removed and replaced. $6,956.00
did your lease permit you to have a dog and if it did and the dog did indeed pee on the floors treating the wood flooring is a fair charge , Padding arguable since it was almost 6 years old , carpet itself arguable and both the carpet and padding have had alot if not all use ful life consumed SO in court you want to know when was the carpet installed and if it was brand new when you moved in argue that the carpet had little value left when you moved out , if that carpet was more than one year old at the time you moved in then it had no useful life at all unless it was some kind of very fancy extended life carpet that was to have a longer use ful life ( owner should have records of that )
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I moved out of the unit on Sep 22 and cleaned everything and gave the keys on Sep 30.
For no. 3 It was the landlords problem since I already wrote in an email what caused the issue. In my email I had written when there was plumbing issue the plumber fixed the upper level toilet sink but in order to do so he stopped water supply in the basement toilet sink. With no water in basement sink rodent infestation started which was stated in my email (July 27) which the realtor never acknowledged.
“Could you please acknowledge receipt of this message?
Like I mentioned over the phone this morning, the basement toilet sink is clogged as the plumber last year turned off the water supply while fixing the upper level toilet issue.”
“Could you please acknowledge receipt of this message?
Like I mentioned over the phone this morning, the basement toilet sink is clogged as the plumber last year turned off the water supply while fixing the upper level toilet issue.”
Gail in Georgia
Senior Member
Some of this is inaccurate; some may be justified. A fair number of landlords have become so burned by how tenants destroy appliances that, while they may provide them they note they are not responsible for damage done during the tenancy (and addressing repairs is the responsibility of the tenant). The other option is to provide no appliances in the rental unit and the tenant is responsible for supplying their own as there is nothing that says a landlord must provide these.
Carpet/floor damage from dog urine may also be justified. Carpet cleaning (even professional carpet cleaning) is not successful in removing animal urine odor that has sunk through the carpet and into the padding and flooring below. Sometimes this is so bad that flooring and subflooring have to be removed and carpet (and padding) simply thrown out and replaced. The question remains what is the average life of the carpet. You "estimate" it was five years old at move in but, in truth, you have no knowledge of the actual age and are simply guessing this. Your tenancy length was considerable (almost six years) and this may play a role in the "end of depreciation" so many state for rental carpets.
And a sink without water would not caused a rodent infestation.
At any rate if you disagree with what was kept out of your security deposit the first step is to write what is known as a "demand" letter to the landlord/management demanding what you believe you are fairly owed and giving them a certain amount of time to return these funds. If no response (or a response not to your satisfaction) the next step is a lawsuit. Such lawsuits are typically handled through Small Claims Court and filing for this court is typically not very expensive. The judge would hear from both sides and decide who is "more right".
"The more money the realtor gets out of you the greater the realtor's commission. The less money the realtor spent on repairs during your tenancy, the greater the realtor's commissions as well." In all likelihood the OP was dealing with Property Management, not a realtor. A PM takes a certain percentage of the rent each month and may charge for things such as lease renewal, etc.. but they are handling the property, not selling it for the owner. There is no "commission" involved here.
Carpet/floor damage from dog urine may also be justified. Carpet cleaning (even professional carpet cleaning) is not successful in removing animal urine odor that has sunk through the carpet and into the padding and flooring below. Sometimes this is so bad that flooring and subflooring have to be removed and carpet (and padding) simply thrown out and replaced. The question remains what is the average life of the carpet. You "estimate" it was five years old at move in but, in truth, you have no knowledge of the actual age and are simply guessing this. Your tenancy length was considerable (almost six years) and this may play a role in the "end of depreciation" so many state for rental carpets.
And a sink without water would not caused a rodent infestation.
At any rate if you disagree with what was kept out of your security deposit the first step is to write what is known as a "demand" letter to the landlord/management demanding what you believe you are fairly owed and giving them a certain amount of time to return these funds. If no response (or a response not to your satisfaction) the next step is a lawsuit. Such lawsuits are typically handled through Small Claims Court and filing for this court is typically not very expensive. The judge would hear from both sides and decide who is "more right".
"The more money the realtor gets out of you the greater the realtor's commission. The less money the realtor spent on repairs during your tenancy, the greater the realtor's commissions as well." In all likelihood the OP was dealing with Property Management, not a realtor. A PM takes a certain percentage of the rent each month and may charge for things such as lease renewal, etc.. but they are handling the property, not selling it for the owner. There is no "commission" involved here.
adjusterjack
Senior Member
Actually, quite common. Penetrates to the floor. Soaks the pad under the carpet so cleaning the carpet doesn't help. I've had that happen in my own rentals, and in a house that I bought. Tenants get inured to the smell after a few years. But walk in after they clear out and it's awful.
No.
You're word against theirs. But they'll have witnesses to the smell.
If you have photos showing no damage you should win on that.
Post it if you like. Redact any identifying information.
Just an attempt to scare you.
They are counting on that.
Our dog was potty trained and there were only 2 occasions when he peed on the carpet which we cleaned immediately. The fact the urine penetrated the carpet everywhere is false. Our dog would only stay in one room.
It is weird that landlord and his wife came to inspect after we moved out and not the realtor I was directly dealing all these while. The exact verbal words from the landlord was “the house looks good and in good condition…we should have taken care of the rodent issue in the basement since we (landlord) had pest control.” In fact I had mentioned the rodent issue in my email before we moved out and the realtor failed to acknowledge.
It is weird that landlord and his wife came to inspect after we moved out and not the realtor I was directly dealing all these while. The exact verbal words from the landlord was “the house looks good and in good condition…we should have taken care of the rodent issue in the basement since we (landlord) had pest control.” In fact I had mentioned the rodent issue in my email before we moved out and the realtor failed to acknowledge.
I have a meeting with a lawyer on Monday.
I get it that rodents can come easily thru drains that have gone dry so I can see your landlord asking why you didnt pour water down the drains of fixtures in the basement since that is one way to help prevent sewer gasses from coming into a home besides making a imperfect barrier to mice /rodents. In the end here if you cannot settle this with out the courts then yes by all means let a judge do it the outcome may not be the ideal one you have hoped for but still a lot less than the original claim.
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The basement toilet was never used since day one. We only found out this summer when we had some guests come over for backyard party, and have guests use it. The plumber had shut down the basement toilet water supply sometime last year while fixing upper lever toilet issue. Of course I would have asked the pest control people to fix it during heir routine check only if we had known.
Gail in Georgia
Senior Member
Make certain that this attorney is familiar with landlord/tenant law in your state. Not all attorneys are aware of the laws.
One issue to point out. Folks often throw out the idea that the useful life of a carpet in a rental unit is 5-7 years; appliances 5 years, etc.. This comes from IRS rulings regarding how long a landlord can DEPRECIATE these items on a tax return not how long they are expected to last in a rental property. Carpets in private homes often last decades; appliances also quite a long time. It's rare for a home owner to need to paint every 2-3 years. I've got double ovens in my own house that are almost 40 years old and work fine. The point is that often these numbers of length of life on items in a rental property have no real basis in law.
One issue to point out. Folks often throw out the idea that the useful life of a carpet in a rental unit is 5-7 years; appliances 5 years, etc.. This comes from IRS rulings regarding how long a landlord can DEPRECIATE these items on a tax return not how long they are expected to last in a rental property. Carpets in private homes often last decades; appliances also quite a long time. It's rare for a home owner to need to paint every 2-3 years. I've got double ovens in my own house that are almost 40 years old and work fine. The point is that often these numbers of length of life on items in a rental property have no real basis in law.
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