Libel -Have to decide

[Katy W.]

What is the name of your state?az

I have a hearing coming up . The hearing is about a first impression statute interpretation and also against an agency for mistreating clients. I will win the first issue - the judge has already told us as much, and I will probably win the second matter too.

I don't have quite enough of an adverse job action for a retaliation lawsuit under Title Vll, but I have the necessary elements of libel. Could you guys read through this and give me your opinion? I was going to just drop it but I'd like to get a few opinions as to whether this is viable or not.

The agency/employer in question had many complaints filed against it. The angency/employer decided that I had filed all the complaints. I had'nt filed any. The CEO of this agency held a meeting where administrators and members of the Board of Directors and couple of people from outside agencies attended. The purpose of the meeting was to discredit me. The CEO wrote and passed out a 12 page packet of material, mostly about me, all false. Among the false statements are:

- that I had performance problems, and I got to the point where I was going to be fired for my performance. I can prove this isn't true.

-"It was suggested that Katy get therapy to give her tools to solve her problems at work." This is an untrue statement but the underlying implication is that mental problems are the reason the CEO had trouble with me.

Description of the complaints filed, then "Katy has become a very disturbing element in the work force."

There was also a letter from a co-worker to the CEO of our parent company. It was distributed to show that my peers do not support me. It said, "I don't agree with what Katy wrote to you in her letter and she has no right to speak for me." and was signed by this co-worker. Sinice I never wrote the CEO any letter, the CEO must have told the other employees that I had written the letter, then had the co-worker write the letter, etc. This was an attempt to alienate me from my co-workers.

It worked. All my co-workers shunned me (some still haven't speaken to me and it's been almost a year), and even my manager wouldn't answer my calls when I had to take a week of sick time.. I finally wrote a constructive discharge letter and quit 15 days later.

I've been out of work almost a year.

I'm covered by an anti-retaliation statute.

What do you think?

 

[BelizeBreeze]

What do we think about what? The chances of substantiating a libel charge against the CEO and company or the catfight in the boardroom?

 

[JETX]

What do you think?

I think you are 'farting' in the wind.

Lets look at what you seem to be claiming are solid points to your case:

Among the false statements are:
- that I had performance problems, and I got to the point where I was going to be fired for my performance. I can prove this isn't true.
Whether it is true or not is irrelevant. The ONLY issue that matters is HOW it was said.... and if it was the writers true OPINION of your performance. If it was an OPINION, or stated as such, it is NOT defamation.
Also, this is very subjective. For example, were you EVER late to work?? Did you EVER miss a deadline?? Did you EVER appear confrontational or disruptive?? If so, then the statement of your 'performance problems' would likely be found to be accurate.... and thereby, NOT defamation.

-"It was suggested that Katy get therapy to give her tools to solve her problems at work." This is an untrue statement but the underlying implication is that mental problems are the reason the CEO had trouble with me.
Again, subjective statement..... and not in itself defamation. It may be an honest statement SUGGESTING you get therapy. That is NOT defamation.

Description of the complaints filed, then "Katy has become a very disturbing element in the work force."
Again, subjective. Have you NEVER, EVER been 'disturbing' in the work force?? Have you EVER gotten into any type of confrontation (verbal, or otherwise) with another employee?? If so, the statement would again be claimed to be true.... and not defamation.

There was also a letter from a co-worker to the CEO of our parent company. It was distributed to show that my peers do not support me. It said, "I don't agree with what Katy wrote to you in her letter and she has no right to speak for me." and was signed by this co-worker. Sinice I never wrote the CEO any letter, the CEO must have told the other employees that I had written the letter, then had the co-worker write the letter, etc. This was an attempt to alienate me from my co-workers.
This is your weakest argument. You say "the CEO must have told the other employees that I had written the letter...". Do you KNOW that.... or suspect that. Further, even if you KNOW that to be the case, can you show that the CEO knowlingly lied about it and that it caused you damage/harm??

Sorry, I see a very weak case (if any at all) and what will easily be seen as a disgruntled, upset, angry plaintiff without any real substantive basis for her complaint.

 

[Katy W.]

What do we think about what? The chances of substantiating a libel charge against the CEO and company or the catfight in the boardroom?

Belize, I posted:

don't have quite enough of an adverse job action for a retaliation lawsuit under Title Vll, but I have the necessary elements of libel. Could you guys read through this and give me your opinion? I was going to just drop it but I'd like to get a few opinions as to whether this is viable or not.

I just think it's tragic when seniors start to go like this, and they do say the eyes are the first to go....

The ONLY issue that matters is HOW it was said.... and if it was the writers true OPINION of your performance. If it was an OPINION, or stated as such, it is NOT defamation.

JetX, This material says that I was about to be fired. Is that an opinion really? I can disprove through documentation, some written by the CEO.

I am NOT going to be upset if I don't have a libel case. I would probably use the case to bargain with for a remedy in the other case I have pending anyway.

JetX, I have a participant in the meeting testifying that the meeting was held in order to discredit me so that no one would belive the complaints I filed. The rest of what I wrote is provable through documentation or witnesses.

The word about the "letter I wrote" came down from the administration of our parent company. If it wasn't the CEO that told my peers I wrote the letter, then it was a VP. Yes, I can prove this (that it was from admin) through e-mails.

Just pretend that I can prove everything I wrote in my post, because I don't have time to write it out. Same opinion?

 

[JETX]

Just pretend that I can prove everything I wrote in my post, because I don't have time to write it out. Same opinion?

Pretty much, yep.
If you will read my post, it wasn't an issue of proof itself, but more an issue that the complaints you have don't seem to rise to the level of slander.... or damages.
For example, how many of these former fellow employees actually believed what they heard?
And how many of those that heard AND believed the comments, actually were in a position to cause you harm or damage your reputation... sufficient enough to cause damages.

Slander is oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another, which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed.

Again, as noted in my original post.... and apparently ignored in your response:
1) "that I had performance problems, and I got to the point where I was going to be fired for my performance. I can prove this isn't true."
Performance problems: This is such an overly broad and vague statement that there is really no way that you can prove it isn't correct. How can you PROVE that you have NEVER had a 'performance problem' at your work?? I am willing to bet you that your employer will be able to show that there were 'performance problems'.... even itsy-bitsy ones. And that is enough to shoot this one down... as the truth is NOT defamation.

2) "It was suggested that Katy get therapy to give her tools to solve her problems at work."
Two problems....
a) "Suggested": That says (at least to me) that 'someone' may have suggested that you get therapy. This doesn't mean it was said TO you. It could have been said by someone who complained about you to their manager.
b) And again, this statement is vague and has no specificity. Who said it?? In what context?? Etc.

3) "Katy has become a very disturbing element in the work force."
From your post, it would appear (at least to me) that this statement is more than likely accurate. Especially in light of your current claims of slander. That in itself could be shown to be a 'very disturbing element in the work force'.

Katy, this is clearly something that you feel strongly about and my comments are not going to change that. Unless you have other, more fundamental examples of how you were defamed, I really don't see this one going anywhere. Best of luck to you...... and you should really consider putting this behind you and moving on.

 

[forumguest]

I am not a lawyer

It seems to me that you may have claim for defamation due to gossip in the workplace or other type of complex claim such as under Intra -Corporate employee defamation.

Perhaps ask your bar association in your state if they can refer you to a lawyer with experience in employment law or defamation claims.

Workcite
March 10, 2005

INTRA-CORPORATE EMPLOYEE DEFAMATION CLAIMS

Several recent cases serve as a reminder that statements made in employee performance reviews, internal memos, or even conversations among managers can serve as the basis for defamation claims against employers and the individual managers or supervisors who make the statements. Employee defamation claims also underscore the importance of exercising extreme caution in preparing internal documents regarding employee evaluations/discipline and determining how and to whom such information is distributed.


Defamation Claim

To state a claim for defamation, an employee generally must allege that: (1) the employer made a false statement concerning the employee; (2) there was a "publication" of the statement to a third party, meaning that it was communicated to one or more persons other than the employee; and (3) the statement caused damage to the employee. If the false statement is written, it is libel; if it is spoken, it is slander.

http://www.hmw.com/workcite/20050310.htm

http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Sep/1/127684.html

http://www.securitymanagement.com/library/000488.html

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I am not a lawyer

It seems to me that you may have claim for defamation due to gossip in the workplace or other type of complex claim such as under Intra -Corporate employee defamation.

Perhaps ask your bar association in your state if they can refer you to a lawyer with experience in employment law or defamation claims.

Workcite
March 10, 2005

INTRA-CORPORATE EMPLOYEE DEFAMATION CLAIMS

Several recent cases serve as a reminder that statements made in employee performance reviews, internal memos, or even conversations among managers can serve as the basis for defamation claims against employers and the individual managers or supervisors who make the statements. Employee defamation claims also underscore the importance of exercising extreme caution in preparing internal documents regarding employee evaluations/discipline and determining how and to whom such information is distributed.


Defamation Claim

To state a claim for defamation, an employee generally must allege that: (1) the employer made a false statement concerning the employee; (2) there was a "publication" of the statement to a third party, meaning that it was communicated to one or more persons other than the employee; and (3) the statement caused damage to the employee. If the false statement is written, it is libel; if it is spoken, it is slander.

http://www.hmw.com/workcite/20050310.htm

http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Sep/1/127684.html

http://www.securitymanagement.com/library/000488.html

If you want to continue with using this forum I would strongly suggest you learn before you speak.

Nowhere in this post has there been substantial proof to show damages which are required to substantiate a libel claim.

And since you are NOT an attorney, and she has already gotten a valid response, your post is nothing more than a waste of time and space.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Katy,
Why does your most recent account differ from your other posts where you admit that you filed complaints on behalf of other employees re ADA accommodations? Here you state you made no complaints. Why do you fail to admit this time that the outside agencies were the eeoc and that the Disabled employees didn't want your interference? Here is one of those accounts, others have been deleted.
-------
Katy,
As I originally stated to you, OP needs objective advice and you have a vested opinion which is not objective. I do not discriminate against persons with disabilities. I have advocated for persons with disabilities for more than 25 years. I am disabled myself after a near fatal accident. That doesn't mean that I agree with everything that happens or that everything is fair and more often than not if you don't have a visable disability, by asking for ADA accommodations will eventually result in termination because employers and the courts have not yet come to a understanding. In facts, the courts often fail to honor their own policies re ADA access and accommodations.

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=213075
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=212474
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=207039

I have an administrative hearing in March on an issue that I originally filed a grievance on, then appealed, then appealed to this hearing before an Administrative Law Judge. The respondent is the State Dept. of Health Services and I'm trying to define an issue about whether department employees who are also patients or consumers keep their patient rights afforded to them by law while on the job.

But what I need help with: I need to file a motion to: request a pretrial conference, and to ask that the respondent furnish me with his argument stating his position by a certain date. (At an administrative hearing neither side has to automatically give the other side this, or their witnesses, etc.) I also want to ask about subpoenas and a possible change of venue.

The Respondent has 3 lawyers. I really want this to sound like I'm halfway intelligent. Could someone help me draft this motion, I am blanking on how it should be worded?

Thank you~

What is the name of your state? Arizona

This question comes from reading Belize's response to the "Email admin" thread.

I have an administrative hearing in a few weeks where I will be presenting a case against my ex-employer, but please answer as though this were going to be civil litigation also.

I filed an EEOC charge in May. In June my employer held a meeting attended by:

*all the admins of our agency
*The CEO and HR director of an agency we are funded through (parent company)
*members of the Boards of Directors of the two agencies
*a respresentative that works for a federal agency in the same field

In this meeting my employer passed out a 12 page packet of material. The first page was titled "Katy W., Background and History." Almost every statement about me was provably false and derogatory.

In the material there was also a letter that an ex-co-worker had written to the CEO of the funding agency. The letter stated: "Dear Mr. Hoohaw, I want you to know that I don't agree with what Katy W. said in her letter to you. She does not represent me. I also disagree with the other negative things she said in her letter." This letter is apparently included so that the others at the meeting could see how my peers do not support me. I never wrote a letter to Mr. Hoohaw.

The last page of this material contains statements like: "Katy continues to stir everyone up" and "Katy W. has become a very disruptive force in (our agency.)"

I had no performance issues at work. The only reason these statements are beung made was because I filed the EEOC complaint. My ex-employer doesn't even have a pretextual reason for holding this meeting and distributing this material.

I received the packet of material in the mail, anonymously. Do I have to worry about the material being confidential since I was not invited to this meeting? Will my employers be able to successfully defend themselves against retaliation because the people at the meeting were all involved in our business - i.e. the CEO of our funding agency - if they distribute this to him, does it count the same as if the admins of our company talked together about me?

I worked for a subcontractor of a state agency. The parent agency is a contractor for the state.

Thanks-

What is the name of your state? Arizona

I am writing the pleading for a Pro Se lawsuit against my former employer for discrimination, retaliation, FLSA violations, and maybe defamation but maybe not sure. I am not doing this Pro Se because I want to.

I need help on the pleading; I’ve filed one already and this is my one free amendment. Please help if you can:

Do I want to stick to the main count, retaliation, or do I want to include everything that could also be violations? My employer, a non-profit agency contracted to the state government, encouraged its employees to “volunteer” their services since the company was sort of a pilot project, yada yada. So that’s an FLSA violation, do I include?

The EEOC right-to-sue I am using was filed because of retaliation I received after I filed a Charge of Discrimination. My employer called a meeting of administrators of our company, our parent company, the board of directors of each, and even some community members, and passed out a 12-page packet of material about me. In this material were memos containing provably untrue negative statements about my past work performance, allegations that I had filed complaints with various state agencies without affording them the opportunity to respond (also false, the EEOC charges were the only I filed), a statement that reads: “It was suggested that (she) take classes in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy to provide her with some skills in dealing with her problems at work”; and statements about me being a “very disruptive influence” in the company. (This was all written when they got knowledge of the EEOC Charge.) Unfortunately for my employer someone who attended the meeting mailed me a copy of everything my employer distributed there.

Also included in this packet were copies of a letter written by a co-worker to the CEO of our parent company, she wrote, ‘I know that (I) wrote to you saying that she represents all of us here, she doesn’t represent me, and I don’t agree with the negative things she has been saying about the management here.’ Etc. Only, I never wrote a letter to the CEO of our parent company. The whole meeting (and apparently much activity since)was an attempt to discredit me for filing the Charge. Our CEO coached my co-worker (once a friend) into writing her letter to our bosses’ boss, then copied it to show everyoneat this meeting that my peers don’t support me. Would you consider anything I’ve told you to be defamation?

In the past, my employer demoted me for asking for reasonable accommodation, but that was in my first EEOC Charge and the right to sue has timed out on that. Can I include those violations anyway?

A co-worker has also filed suit about things that were going on at our jobs, the District Court will join our two cases, right.? She is also a pro se litigant. Will the Court appoint us counsel, then, if I petition? (I mean, do I have a good chance.)

Thanks very much.

Katy

Katy,
Why are you bringing this action if the very people you say you are advocating for say you don't represent them?

 

[forumguest]

If you want to continue with using this forum I would strongly suggest you learn before you speak.

Nowhere in this post has there been substantial proof to show damages which are required to substantiate a libel claim.

And since you are NOT an attorney, and she has already gotten a valid response, your post is nothing more than a waste of time and space.

I am not a lawyer

If you read the case law, opinions, and articles about employment law defamation I provided by links they provide the entire opinions about how to bring defamation claims for employment related law, then you would see that it does show that a defamation claim may be filed if a statement is made with actual malice- i.e.,. falsity of the statement or reckless disregard for the truth.

For example she says that they wrote up a internal memo about her that was false as well as other things that to me is enough proof to bring the claim.

Workcite

March 10,2005

Employees can defeat a qualified privilege "intra-corporate communication" defense if they can show that the employer's statement was made with actual malice - i.e., knowledge of the falsity of the statement or reckless disregard for the truth. Actual malice can be inferred from the evidence surrounding the circumstances and the timing of the statement (e.g., the employer states that the employee is discharged for theft before doing any investigation, or an employee shows that the manager who made the alleged defamatory statement was motivated by a personal grudge). Thus, here again, disputed facts can lead to a jury trial on a defamation claim.

http://www.hmw.com/workcite/20050310.htm

http://www.securitymanagement.com/library/000488.html

http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Sep/1/127684.html

 

[Katy W.]

Thanks, this was exactly what I needed, an objective analysis.

I have a hearing next month, after which I will be THRILLED to put this behind me JETX! Thanks for your input.

Forumguest, I appreciate the links. I haven't read much along these lines elsewhere.

rmet, I appreciate your attention and devotion to my posts but the meeting I'm referring to here occurred before I had filed any complaints. This is a long convoluted story and I am trying to just present the pertinent parts. What exactly are you insinuating when you ask why I posted different details? Do you think that I'm making this all up, and that is why there are what you perceive to be discrepencies in my story? Why the hell would I waste my time doing that, and why the hell are you wasting your time digging up my old posts and scrutinizing them?

I agree about the magnitude of these acts not sustaining an action. My ex-employers behaved toward me in a libelous manner, but the actions and the damages would never sustain a lawsuit.

 

[forumguest]

Thanks, this was exactly what I needed, an objective analysis.

I have a hearing next month, after which I will be THRILLED to put this behind me JETX! Thanks for your input.

Forumguest, I appreciate the links. I haven't read much along these lines elsewhere.

rmet, I appreciate your attention and devotion to my posts but the meeting I'm referring to here occurred before I had filed any complaints. This is a long convoluted story and I am trying to just present the pertinent parts. What exactly are you insinuating when you ask why I posted different details? Do you think that I'm making this all up, and that is why there are what you perceive to be discrepencies in my story? Why the hell would I waste my time doing that, and why the hell are you wasting your time digging up my old posts and scrutinizing them?

I agree about the magnitude of these acts not sustaining an action. My ex-employers behaved toward me in a libelous manner, but the actions and the damages would never sustain a lawsuit.

I am not a lawyer.

I think Arizona has a 1 year statute of limitations to file a claim for Libel/Slander if you change your mind.

I was recently slandered but it was by someone in Florida and Florida has a 2 year statute of limitations to file defamation claims. At least I have two years to file mine if I was going to. And the laws are so complex for defamation in regards to slander by corporations and law firms that in my case I may not even have a claim because of a loophole in the law even though it is still
Defamation.

But who knows in 2 years the court could overrule that loophole, but I still have other possible claims that I have to look into further because of the defamation by the parties.

 

[Katy W.]

You're right, my time runs out on June 1.

Actually because their behavior was reprehensible but not very severe I was thinking that when I requested several remedies - restructuring, enhanced vocational opportunities for the employees and ex-employees, etc., I could say that provision of the remedies sought would settle all claims in this matter, including any defamation claims. I wanted to know if my defamation case was strong enough to mention that I had a case. These people are barricudas.