medical care/joint parenting

[crhsah]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I just got dinged for not informing the other parent about a medication change and told that all decisions must be joint...

the problem is, he needs regular medication...the reason that it was changed is that I thought that the ADD medication was not working....turns out he has Asperger's syndrome...

Anyway....I have a letter stating that his pediatrician has never met him in 6 years...have letters indicating that I have kept him informed and invited him to medicals...have letters that I have sent requesting fillings for cavities in a tooth...because he did not respond, I could not fill, and within 4 months the tooth had to be pulled emergency style (pain and blood and all)...His dentist has never seen the Dad

150 letters to him over 3 years

And the parenting plan states 2 different things in 2 different places, one says it should be joint and in another that it is the perogative of the residential parent....

How could I have gotten it over this....

But more importantly, how am I supposed to get care for my child??? Believe me the father is passive-aggressive enough to sue me for obtaining care or for not obtaining care....but won't get off his and get into the doctor's and provide care...

What do I do about his medications??? About any routine medical concerns???

 

[Ohiogal]

You got dinged for not INFORMING him? Then inform him. You don't have to get his permission. According to him you just need to INFORM him. So you do so. You do what needs to be done and INFORM dad of what is happening.

 

[crhsah]

Yep....got dinged for not informing...the medication was changed on the same day as child exchange for Christmas holiday. We had wild snow storms and several calls/emails back and forth with minute to minute changes in plans due to road closings, and the informing just got lost in the shuffle.

Thing is...he didn't contact me to ask either. He never has. I sent my son down for a 2 week visit the same day that I had brought him to ER with dx of hernia and recommendation to f/u with regular pediatrician. Dad sat down there with him for 2 weeks. He never gave me any information on how he did. He never asked about the f/u appointment. Never asked about the surgeon. Just never shows an interest until he finds one hair out of place.

But: I WAS told that all medical decisions are to be joint...that means that I cannot get care unless he agrees to it. He just does not respond when I notify and request presence or opinion.

My son is new dx of Asperger's. His teachers/school counselors are adamant that he will in no way be prepared to navigate or perform in middle school next year. If I do not obtain help for my child, he will surely fail in life. Because he is high-functioning, with intervention, he could soar to amazing heights in life. I want the best for him, but the father is so un-involved that he actually says that I have made this up. He also has ADD. (I know he sounds like a mess on paper, but my son is such an amazingly good little kid - everyone who meets him is impressed).

Anyway, this is not just that I can't treat a cold by going to the doctor or that he may not get braces.

I MUST have a joint decision about anything...and that dad just will not become involved in anything except knee-jerk disagreement with me. How can I access care without being in contempt of the parenting plan?

 

[MichaCA]

Someone please tell me if I am wrong, but we also have joint everything...have similar issues say around therapy for child, which school, etc. But basic stuff like medical appts, dental appts...and then the dentist says this is needed, I would write dad and say dentist says this, I have scheduled an appt. If dad objects, then you have an issue, but if he doesn't, you informed him and just go do it.

For something where you need actual cooperation on dads part for the childs health, again, write dad and tell him doctor said...and can he do that on his time? Hopefully he can write back and say OK. If he doesn't then figure out why and take it from there (maybe he needs to talk to the doctor or something, wants a second opinion?), but if he doesn't call back, and its serious, then you need to take it back to court and explain your concerns.

I would absolutely have an email relationship, so that you can have a paper trail...unless its an emergency...like the illness on the snowy trip. BUT, how come you didn't call dad after you got home and tell him the results of health exams, and what his responsibilities were? Yeah,he could have asked, but why make him? If you take your child to health appt you need to inform dad the same day, in my opinion. I do things by email unless its an emergency where email would be too slow of communication.

 

[Ohiogal]

Yep....got dinged for not informing...the medication was changed on the same day as child exchange for Christmas holiday. We had wild snow storms and several calls/emails back and forth with minute to minute changes in plans due to road closings, and the informing just got lost in the shuffle.

That is a pretty big thing to get lost in the shuffle. What you should have done is TOLD dad during the exchange. A change in medication is MAJOR.

Thing is...he didn't contact me to ask either. He never has. I sent my son down for a 2 week visit the same day that I had brought him to ER with dx of hernia and recommendation to f/u with regular pediatrician. Dad sat down there with him for 2 weeks. He never gave me any information on how he did. He never asked about the f/u appointment. Never asked about the surgeon. Just never shows an interest until he finds one hair out of place.

So?

But: I WAS told that all medical decisions are to be joint...that means that I cannot get care unless he agrees to it. He just does not respond when I notify and request presence or opinion.

Joint means what Micha said -- I read ahead. If you have joint and tell dad and he doesn't argue it then you go ahead.

My son is new dx of Asperger's. His teachers/school counselors are adamant that he will in no way be prepared to navigate or perform in middle school next year. If I do not obtain help for my child, he will surely fail in life. Because he is high-functioning, with intervention, he could soar to amazing heights in life. I want the best for him, but the father is so un-involved that he actually says that I have made this up. He also has ADD. (I know he sounds like a mess on paper, but my son is such an amazingly good little kid - everyone who meets him is impressed).

Anyway, this is not just that I can't treat a cold by going to the doctor or that he may not get braces.

I MUST have a joint decision about anything...and that dad just will not become involved in anything except knee-jerk disagreement with me. How can I access care without being in contempt of the parenting plan?

You inform dad. If he disputes what you tell him let him get a second opinion. If he doesn't dispute it you go ahead.

 

[crhsah]

I do all of the care. I make the appointments, pay insurance, pay the bills - 100% for the past six years. I inform him and he neither has an opinion, comes to appointments, nor pays any bills. The one time in a confused situation that I slip...he took advantage. Yes, he had every right to be a jerk and excercised his right.

The point is now...that I don't ever TELL him anything, because there has yet to be a conversation in which we later agree to what was said. I write.

So, here is the question...If I write to my ex to inform him of a medical condition and state that I want to seek medical care (as I have done in the past), and there is no response (as is the routine)...what do I do when my child needs fillings? Is out of his daily medication? Has a stomach flu and is throwing up? What is my FIRST STEP if my son is running a fever?

 

[Ohiogal]

I do all of the care. I make the appointments, pay insurance, pay the bills - 100% for the past six years. I inform him and he neither has an opinion, comes to appointments, nor pays any bills. The one time in a confused situation that I slip...he took advantage. Yes, he had every right to be a jerk and excercised his right.

The point is now...that I don't ever TELL him anything, because there has yet to be a conversation in which we later agree to what was said. I write.

So, here is the question...If I write to my ex to inform him of a medical condition and state that I want to seek medical care (as I have done in the past), and there is no response (as is the routine)...what do I do when my child needs fillings? Is out of his daily medication? Has a stomach flu and is throwing up? What is my FIRST STEP if my son is running a fever?

Please tell me you are kidding? YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILD. Good grief. Plain and simple. YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILD. The fact that you are asking that question shows that you are either taking it to extremes, acting stupid, or want a reason to quibble.

If your child needs fillings, you inform dad and get his cavities filled.
If he is out of his medication, you get the prescription refilled. That one you don't even have to inform dad as long as the medication does not change.
If he has the stomach flu you do what a parent would do and keep him home, make sure he has fluids and take care of him.
QUIT being ridiculous.

 

[crhsah]

I have been taking care...never gave it any thought. But after court on Thursday, my attorney said that I must receive permission before any care from now on. I specifically asked him this question - he shrugged his shoulders.

My ex has said he is going for custody. The parenting plan says (in one place) joint for medical care. He does not respond to any of my letters. If I am in breach of the parenting plan, I will lose custody.

Being stupid? I probably can be dense at times - but not quibbling. I sincerely want to know how to care for my child and retain custody.

 

[LdiJ]

Please tell me you are kidding? YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILD. Good grief. Plain and simple. YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR CHILD. The fact that you are asking that question shows that you are either taking it to extremes, acting stupid, or want a reason to quibble.

If your child needs fillings, you inform dad and get his cavities filled.
If he is out of his medication, you get the prescription refilled. That one you don't even have to inform dad as long as the medication does not change.
If he has the stomach flu you do what a parent would do and keep him home, make sure he has fluids and take care of him.
QUIT being ridiculous.

While I absolutely 100% agree with this advice, I unfortunately know of several cases where a CP was dinged by the court for providing NECESSARY care for the child without the approval of the ncp, in a joint legal custody situation.

I have to admit that it seemed to me, in most of the cases, that the judge was having a bad day in court, and didn't pay attention to the whole situation, but unfortuately I honestly know of CPS (both mothers and fathers) who got dinged for providing NECESSARY care.

Of course I would still give the same advice that you gave, and tell a parent to get their child whatever necessary care the child needed, whether the ncp gave specific approval or not. But the reality of things is that we cannot guarantee that they won't get "dinged" for doing so if its joint legal custody.

I even have specific knowledge of a case where a CP mom got her child yanked by CPS, because the NCP dad refused to agree to specific medical care, and the mom took it to court and the judge sided with dad, and then later CPS yanked the child from both of them for not providing the care.

I also know of a case where a CP mom was fined by the court for providing her child necessary medical care, and the judge even admitted that the care was necessary, but fined mom anyway because she didn't have dad's agreement.

I also know of another case, where the ncp told the doctor that they would sue the doctor if the child was treated without their express permission, so the doctor refused to treat the child, the CP took it to court, the court sided with the NCP, and the child ended up being deaf for lack of treatment.

So...I do understand this mom's confusion and frustration.

I still recommend that mom follow your advice...but recognize that she might get dinged for it.

 

[crhsah]

As to informing the father via email: good idea. Same one I had 3 years ago. In fact, I began refusing all personal contact and insisting that all communications be kept in writing because of all of the accusations, lies, manipulations, games**************

But, unfortunately, he was unable to have email contact because "he didn't have email." So, I started sending everything registered mail. In about 150 letter/ emails sent over 3 years, I have had 5 responses. Found out about a year later from something my son had said that he had email all along. When I sent asked him about this, he admitted to having email, and I began sending emails. He did not respond to requests at all. Later, his excuse was that things took too long to download. In other words, a letter with one paragraph wasn't answered in over 2 weeks, which was too late for a response to be useful.

I submitted the letters to court to demonstrate notication. Judge did not want to read them. They were too massive! So there was "no evidence" of notification.

Frankly, at this point, I would be more inclined to believe the best advice is to keep all communications non-written, do the wrong thing and to in to court and lie about it.

 

[crhsah]

My ex has already stated that his intention is to go for custody. He has demonstrated by refusal to respond to me and by refusal to get any needed care that he has no problem with my son not getting needed care. He is passive-aggressive personified. It is not exageration to say that before both feet hit the floor in the morning he has some little plot that will cause distress to someone else, while he himself will appear either victimized or heroic in whatever little drama he has cooked up.

He would without any hesitation complain refuse to give permission for care, complain that I had gotten care...and then turn me in to CPS for not getting care for my son. This is the sort of thing that floats his boat!

My son has had the same pediatrician for 6 years. All of his teachers, school psychologist, pediatrician, PTA moms, scout parents...all would testify that Dad is universally absent and that I am providing good care. I am not complaining that I am doing it all...just shocked that I have been told by my attorney, (who has been told by my ex's attorney that he wants custody), that I cannot get care without his permission. And he won't give it! He doesn't say "no." He just doesn't show up or give an opinion!

 

[MichaCA]

What was the context that caused your attorney to shrug his shoulders? What was said in court, or what happened, or was that a off-topic question you asked him and that was his response?

He sounds like the kind of guy you will have to be very careful with always, to follow the correct protocol to a T. I don't know why you were in court to begin with, but unless I didn't read well, I didn't hear of any formal complaint about you NOT notifying the dad about health care in general except that one time. It sounds like dad was not pissed cause you got health care, but that you didn't notify him of the results (??) If thats the case, keep doing what your doing, take care of your childs medical needs...when a special referral is made, for fillings, for whatever special, notify dad of the date such and such will happen and to inform you if he has any concerns or questions before hand.

If dad doesn't inform you before hand of concerns or questions then there is no way (I would hope) you could get dinged in court. He needs to state a specific issue and you can pull that letter out.

If medication for the child is necessary, write dad and tell him. Ask the pediatrician or other health specialist to write a note advising the medication. Follow it with the standard...please inform you if he has any concerns or questions. However with something where you are not sure dad will comply with no communication, I would add a blip at the end of the letter saying you need confirmation he will give the medication. I would enclose a self addressed stamped envelope with the letter. Give him a week. If no reply, send another copy, same thing. If he doesn't reply, I would take it back to court and tell the court dad is not communicating with you at all regarding necessary medication for the child, and ask the judge to order dad communicate with you regarding health issues via email.

 

[LdiJ]

I have another idea. Here is an example:

Dear Dad,

The child's doctor believes that the child needs XXX medication, for XXX reason etc.

If I do not receive a response from you with 5 days of today's date, I will assume that you are in agreement with what the doctor recommends. If you are not in agreement, please let me know and I will arrange an appointment with the doctor so that you can discuss the issue directly with him/her.

Sincerely,
Mom

With that, if dad doesn't respond then he will be giving permission.

 

[crhsah]

Thanks, LD, that is helpful.

 

[crhsah]

We went to court at the same time, on the same day, each with complaints against one another. I had contacted my attorney last summer, with 2 years of communication, including letters from me giving medical notice and letters of concern that he is not responding. Also, was a lawsuit on my part for about 6,000 in medical bills as he has paid nothing despite parenting plan. Also was complaint that he had not responded to mediation request (in violation of the parenting plan). My attorney had contacted his attorney, but did not go to court. His complaints against me were for things that had occurred many months after my attorney promised to file for me, but instead started talking to his attorney.

My attorney's comments were made to me just outside of the court room. While sitting there, his attorney dropped a request for mediation in his lap. I said, "he's going for custody." Not too far a stretch since he has said so several time, including in the complaint to the court! My attorney's response, was "He doesn't want custody. He doesn't want to care for a chid." Well of course he doesn't! That is why he dumps him on his wife, friends or anyone else he can find even during visits. That doesn't mean wouldn't like to do it full time - AND save himself $375 per month!