Military violation of 1st Admendment

[ekhi]

AFguy:
Congratulations on your graduation!

I am so happy to know someone of your caliber is serving in our great country's military.

I too like to believe one of the great strength's of our country is the separation of church and state, but perhaps that is not so.

I know my (Christian) ancestors came to the USA driven by the religious freedom it offered. Back then, our government strived to have no mandate regarding religious worship.

Oddly, I've found in the past decade, many Americans are of the opinion that the USA was founded as a Christian nation. Odd that, historical fact going through such a profound transformation.

Anyway, I am proud to read of your courage to endure personal and professional struggle and suffering to uphold the high ideals of our beloved country.

I salute you!

 

[racer72]

The first amendment guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

 

[ekhi]

Amendment I of the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An individual's freedom from religion is inherent.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

 

[mandy7181]

key word in the 1st amendment---"C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S" Basically it states that Congress cannot make any laws restricting freedom of religion, speech, press, etc. It doesnt say that prayers cannot be said at a graduation. You can stand there respectfully and not be praying if it offends you.

 

[AFguy]

-again, It is not about whether or not I, or anybody else was offended by the prayer. The issue is that by including prayer as a part of the official proceedings, the government is supporting a religion.
There doesn't have to be an actual law in place for the supreme court or any high court to rule on it. There have have been plenty of instances in which courts have found certain "practices" to be unconstitutional or unlawful. Congress doesn't have to make a specific law in order for practices to be legally challenged.

 

[mandy7181]

not exactly===you look at any college graduation and they usually say one if not two prayers---i think its called the invocation and benediction. But you wouldnt say that every college in the US is promoting a religion--its just a tradition

 

[AFguy]

there's two ways around the college prayers..
one.. its a really benign prayer and they say its only to solemnize the event.. that's its not actually religious... (that's how most of the higher courts have gotten around doing anything about "so help me god" in innauguration speeches...or in a court room... or when congress (or the supreme court..i forget) opens a session and says something like "may god look after this court.." something like that..
two.. its a private college... they can do whatever they want..

my issue is more with the attitudes of the people i have questioned about military prayer.. i've gotten answers back such as: this is a majority chrisitian nation and majority rules, this country is and was founded a christian nation, and this is just the way things are....
i don't like those answers.....
a majority of the people in this nation (close to 85% i heard) may be praticing christians..but that does not make this country a christian nation... this country is about the ideals expressed in the constitution, not the ideals expressed in the bible... if they happen to overlap, that's fine but we cannot be a nation based on one (or any) religion

 

[pamela vandi]

I agree with AFguy

I agree with AFguy that the practice he describes is unconstitutional. I am not an attorney. Another unconstitutional practice is the use of Bibles for swearing in witnesses in court. Anyone wanting more info on that subject should leave a message on my post under "general."

 

[ellencee]

The country was founded for the single purpose of insuring its citizens the right to worship freely without governmental interference; those not wishing to worship were granted the freedom not to worship and to do so without interference from the government.
This country was not founded and the constitution was not written in order to exclude religious beliefs and practices in all walks of life, but to insure it occurred regularly, freely, and without governmental interference.
Somewhere along the way, communism and socialism did take this country 'without firing a shot' and as a result, some idiot Supreme Court failed to uphold the founding father's Constitution.
Just like AF Guy, you can explain to God one day why you believe as you believe. The rest of us--well, pamela, we don't give a damn.

 

[BEING]

WOW!!!

I agree with you whole heartedly that we should be able to believe or not believe as we please. But I remember as a kid in the service when it came time to go to your respective churches you were allowed to go, if you did not have a church or just did not want to attend, you were left to work. While the others sat in church and attended services. Just like cigarettes. You got smoke breaks. If you did not smoke, you kept right on working. I've seen a lot of young men change their religious beliefs and become smokers because of these rules.

Your real problems start if you get injured and become disabled in the service. They tell you about all the benifits and the rights that you have. There are thousands of Disabled American Veterans that have been fighting for these rights. Some have been fighting for 50 or more years - and dying, never receiving these so called benifits.

I watched you post a religious problem, I watched the lawyers and other people smart mouth you, and other people spout off their intellegence about the laws, I ask them for help, and they dont bother to respond. Your going to be a veteran too soon. You'll find out.

I have been fighting the VA for over 35 years. 4 years ago when the admitted that "yes, I was service connected" they refused to pay me any back pay for all those years, I was fighting and being denied because my football coach in highschool was a layman. They still refuse to explain what that means, or what it has to do with anything. No explanation, no response, just like in here.

In my years of fighting this, I have run across many, many disabled veterans in our streets that are zoned out with drugs or booze, unable to function in society normally. As I would be if I took my medication as prescribed to me. I have posted in here, and over in litigation under "what type of laywer do I need". I have started a webpage http://www.thekonacoast.com/vet .
There is soon another one to go up. http://www.veteranshelp.com and veteranshelp.net (they will mirror) It will be for some kind of help for myself and other disadvantaged thrown away disabled veterans left to fend for themselves. Any and all help for me to do this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
BEING

 

[amc822]

Good luck AFGuy. I am a Christian. I went to my son's graduation ceremony and felt very sorry for the Muslim, Hindu and Jewish families in the audience when the prayer that was given referred to Jesus Christ. I'm sure they were quite uncomfortable. Since this was a public school it was highly inappropriate for this prayer to be said. The Constitution is trying to prevent people from being subjected to others' religious beliefs at state sponsored events. I know I won't be praying to Allah in 50 years if there is a majority of Muslims in this country. Ellencee scares the hell out of me to retaliate against you for your position on this issue.

 

[ellencee]

boo!

 

[pamela vandi]

Americans United for the Separation of Church and State

amc822: You should report that incident to Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, the American Civil Liberties Union, and other groups that are looking for test cases.

BEING: Have you contacted www.gulfwarvets.com?

 

[BEING]

No I have not contacted them, I will look into them once Ive posted this note.
I have given my power of attorney to Disabled American Veteran's 3 times, and to Amvet's twice. Once to Senator DeFassio's office on the Veteran's Affairs Committee. They have all thrown up their hands in disgust, and tell me the only recourse I have is to get a lawyer. They say that the VA will not respond to them in the proper manner, which is illegal.
The web site I am starting to develope on this is
http://www.thekonacoast.com/vet/
Lots to come soon!

Thanks
BEING

 

[BEING]

You people are so cruel and thoughtless

This so very sad watching you people fight about religion. The whole human race does that around the world. They kill each other and yell and insult. Just becouse someone does not believe the way that they do. People seem to turn into dangerous animals and attack when it comes to religion.
Then in your religous frenzy I ask for help. Not just for me, but for 1000's of other veterans out there. You just ignore me and talk around me just like the Amiracan Veterans Affairs people do.
There is no help out there for us, and you people could care less.
Everyone in the VA system tells me to find a lawyer. Where do I look? What do I do? Where do I go? I have fought them in Calif. I have fought them in Oregon. I lost my home and what life I had and move here to fight some more. I'm doing this fight alone looking for help. I have all the proof need to show everything I say is true. How can I show my proof in a court of law?
Even the falsified documents claims have been proven to be true.