miranda rights

[mgomez41]

the more and more u seem to explain the less and less i understand but thats ok its not up to me or you it comes down to what the judge thinks and since it is then theres situations whre the judge will agree with you and situations where the judge might agree with me so well just leave the judge to have the final word

 

[conflix]

Interesting. So ... you are an NYPD officer?

I’m a retired Detective.

But policy should not be confused with the law.

You are correct. Yet, while there may not be a specific statute that requires a police officer to make an arrest, if an officer does not take action upon receiving a complaint from a citizen, he could quite possibly find himself the target of a federal civil action….a civil action where the “law” could quite possibly award the civilian a portion of the officer’s pension or paycheck.

And in CA it is a crime for an officer to not accept a citizen's arrest. This is not true of a cold report. If someone demands another be arrested at the scene or proximtae to an event for which they believe the suspect is guilty, we are legally obligated to make the arrest.

So what you are saying is that in California police officers DO NOT have DISCRETION in deciding who they want to arrest and who they don’t want to arrest?

To be specific I have exchanged comments on this subject with three. All three have said that they DO have discretion whether to make an arrest under most circumstances. What the exceptions are, I don't know.

Carl, I stand by my previous assertions in regard to this issue.

 

[conflix]

The law authorizes under what circumstances we MAY impinge upon an individuals freedoms - not when we may not. In every state I know of, the law allows officers wide discretion with VERY FEW exceptions.

Carl, in the State of California, IF a police officer detains a 21 year old individual in a public park and recovers a loaded unlicensed firearm from the individual, is a police officer authorized by law or any other departmental regulation to let the individual walk away without facing any criminal charges?

I can cite oodles of examples from traffic infractions, to misdemeanor battery, and even homicides where an officer is not required to make an arrest even when probable cause exists to do so…

Wow, I think you wrote that if a person admits to a California police officer that he committed a homicide, the police officer has discretion to decide whether or not the admitted murderer should be arrested?


When acting as a police officer, I cannot imagine any circumstance under which I would not arrest a person who admitted to me he committed a murder.

No. We are under no legal obligation to take the report.


However, the head of an agency that refuses such a report on a regular or even semi-regular basis is not likely to last long. But there is no legal requirement for the police or anyone to - in general - accept a report of a crime or even record it.
- Carl

Carl, if a police officer in your department refuses to record a criminal complaint from a civilian; can the officer be disciplined for refusing to take the report?

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

You cannot possibly be a retired police detective.

 

[seniorjudge]

...Wow, I think you wrote that if a person admits to a California police officer that he committed a homicide, the police officer has discretion to decide whether or not the admitted murderer should be arrested?...When acting as a police officer, I cannot imagine any circumstance under which I would not arrest a person who admitted to me he committed a murder....

You obviously have no law enforcement experience.

I can think of several hundred examples that where an officer would not arrest a person who admitted to a homicide was not arrested, but I will give you just one: a person claims he killed someone, but there is no independent proof. If there is nothing that verifies the person's "confession" then no arrest will be made.

 

[CdwJava]

I’m a retired Detective.

Okay. From NYPD?

You are correct. Yet, while there may not be a specific statute that requires a police officer to make an arrest, if an officer does not take action upon receiving a complaint from a citizen, he could quite possibly find himself the target of a federal civil action….a civil action where the “law” could quite possibly award the civilian a portion of the officer’s pension or paycheck.

A FEDERAL action?? Under what statute?? I can see a violation of department policy, but a suit under a FEDERAL statute? Sorry - I don't see that as being even plausible.

So what you are saying is that in California police officers DO NOT have DISCRETION in deciding who they want to arrest and who they don’t want to arrest?

No - we have a great deal of discretion. However, in the case of a citizen's arrest that discretion is largely removed. But, the citizen's arrest must be proximate to the incident ... i.e. the suspect still at the scene or nearby. Someone can't sign a C/A a week after the event and have them arrested.

Carl, I stand by my previous assertions in regard to this issue.

And I still think you are incorrect (that a NY officer MUST make an arrest when probable cause exists) ... or that your statement is overly broad on the issue.


- Carl

 

[CdwJava]

Carl, in the State of California, IF a police officer detains a 21 year old individual in a public park and recovers a loaded unlicensed firearm from the individual, is a police officer authorized by law or any other departmental regulation to let the individual walk away without facing any criminal charges?

The law authorizes us to deprive people of their liberties and rights - and not to grant them that which they already have. An officer CAN permit such a person to walk away. The officer might well be remiss in his duties for doing so, but the fact remains that under the LAW he can.

Under the law he would not have to articulate good cause to let him walk away, but he WOULD have to articulate good cause as to why he made the arrest. The law is funny that way ... it makes us have to justify depriving someone of their liberty - not granting that which they already have.

Such an action might find the officer in hot water by his agency - and perhaps other trouble down the road - but I can think of quite a number of possible reasons to let said 21-year-old walk.

Since no two incidents are the same, without all the details it's hard to say what even I would do. But, since the question is on the law in the above stated scenario, the law says that the officer has discretion. Department policy might say otherwise.

Wow, I think you wrote that if a person admits to a California police officer that he committed a homicide, the police officer has discretion to decide whether or not the admitted murderer should be arrested?

That's true. And I can cite you quite a number of homicide investigations where the suspect confesses (often with a mitigating circumstance) to a killing and he is not immediately arrested. Usually they don't confess, but they trip themselves up substantially enough to justify an arrest if push came to shove.

A confession - by itself - is worthless. If the investigation has nothing else to go on besides the confession, then it almost certainly won't even get to court. And once you make an arrest, speedy trial rights attach and the DA has to go forward with what he has - which could be a confession only.

When acting as a police officer, I cannot imagine any circumstance under which I would not arrest a person who admitted to me he committed a murder.

I can imagine a few. I have been involved in cases where it has happened. The suspect was ultimately arrested on a warrant, but an arrest at the time of the conversation would have likely prevented us from finding the evidence ultimately needed to convict.

If I have a dead body, and a conversation by a person confessing to the crime, I might have probable cause to make an arrest ... but I sure as HECK don't have enough to convict! But! By allowing the suspect to remain out it gives me time to obtain search warrants, further interviews, and EVIDENCE.

I can give hypotheticals on either end of the arrest/don't arrest spectrum all day. Most the time, the crime is going to be immediate and an arrest will be made at the scene of the crime. if the investigation is part of a cold case or lengthy investigation, it is doubtful that an arrest will be made until a warrant is issued or until the case can be neatly tied up.

Carl, if a police officer in your department refuses to record a criminal complaint from a civilian; can the officer be disciplined for refusing to take the report?

CAN they? Yep. Our policy generally requires us to take a report of any criminal allegation - even if not supported by any facts. But this is department policy and not state law.

- Carl