Neighbors stole 15 trees by logging their property and lying to the logger that the property line is straight when it's not

[Lia]

HRZ -- No, not lacking focus but considering all our options and whether it will be worth it. To start the lawsuit, we need a survey ($2K), estimations of stolen trees value by a professional forester ($1K) and find a lawyer who will wait for judgment as most of them want $$$ upfront. We are on the phone all day today asking everyone who can help us to put this together. We just got a reply from a logger whom we know and he's getting the degree to be an attorney specializing in forestry -- he asked to google "Washington homestead exemption". There is a possibility that we will spend a lot of $$$ and get big judgment and it will be not worth the paper it's written on.

They are not retired and about 56 years old. He's on disability and she's waiting for some settlement from her job. Not sure if she's employed as she's almost always home. They have 7 kids and youngest 2 living with them and working. Do they qualify for the WA homestead exemption?

 

[Lia]

Personally, I'd have cleaned up the trash properly - not the tit for tat thing you did or shoving it back on their side of the property line - and add the cost to the suit.

The idea was to put the trash on their side and run an 8' fence. It can be burned as it's branches and bark. They live there and can burn it easily. We don't live there and it would take us 2-3 days at least.

 

[HRZ]

Somehow I don't think you are focused on the poker cards you hold...

IF you total up all the damages you supposedly have X 3 , plus the hefty possible fine of a class C felony plus the possibility of up to a year in jail IF all the cards line up against neighbor , the neighbor might be smart to take a cash walk away offer and you might be smart to be in a position of greater control of future use of property .

IT might well be darn hard collect ...but it's not your job to educate them .

DIscuss your poker cards with counsel.

 

[justalayman]

You don’t get to toss the debris across the property line. That is illegal, even if it should be on her side.

You don’t have to make a financial case for the loss of the trees. The law allows for a suit for treble damages due to the loss.

It also doesn’t take a very wide path to move a modular home across land. I believe they are no wider than 12-14 feet and would need little more than that other than when turning.

The only issue I see is a concern for a statute of limitations that may preclude a suit against the neighbor

 

[HRZ]

With a bit of on line homework .and on line price reports for delivered logs n WA you might be able to have a good price range for value of logs stolen some to zero in in the likely grade of crime involved ...I was assuming in the $750 to $5000 range ....but if those were more valuable logs ..like black walnut around me , and the value soars over $5000 that ups the level of the crime. Likewise below $750 should be a lower level of crime .

Per her own signed paperwork application to move documents for doublewide they were not her trees ...let her worry about disproving her own written statements

A promise to pay out of somebody who needed to steal your property has very poor odds of ever getting paid ....get some common sense!

 

[justalayman]

I’ve seen individual trees worth thousands of dolllars. Three times that puts it over $10,000 for a single tree.

We have no idea what type and how many trees are involved and rheir marktet value is


But the lumberman does.

 

[not2cleverRed]

The idea was to put the trash on their side and run an 8' fence. It can be burned as it's branches and bark. They live there and can burn it easily. We don't live there and it would take us 2-3 days at least.

1) As JAL pointed out, this is legally a bad idea.
2) From a "Be a Mensch" standpoint, this is a bad idea. It is one thing if you asked if they would want it as firewood and they gave you permission, and you then trimmed everything to size and stacked it neatly. You did not, and your actions have not improved the situation, even if it gave you a fleeting sense of satisfaction at the time. Be the neighbor you would want to have.

 

[pac72]

did you ask the logger how much the timber taken off your property was valued at ? since he is seeming to be co operative with you

 

[HRZ]

I think the severity of the crime runs with the value of the trees stolen. NOT the 3 X damage provision .

BTW your attorney deserves to be paid n the time frame of the work he or she performs ..if you want good representation ...dig into kitty and get it ..and pay .

Based on nature of the big picture you post...you are likely to be living with a bad news neighbor for a long time at great impact on value of your assets unless you hire your advocate to play hardball right about now! And In your example I suggest you hire a good poker player with a bit of bully power ...you may win more via bully power than a pile of expensive surveys and professional opinions of market value of those 15 trees .

BTW if you can get logger to,share the actual sale value it may be a big clue as to strength of poker card your advocate holds ....the fact that statistically a first offender rarely serves the max and may not serve at all may not be on neighbors list ...

I don't know the issues of where threats to report supposed illegal activity to leverage return of full value for your stuff crosses the line into extortion and I seriously doubt you do either ...and it's a bit state specific ....leave that hardball of threats to your attorney . Personally I think the clean factual issue of theft of your best estimate of 15 trees worth $ XX needs to be reported rather soon to law enforcement...but even smarter , let your attorney handle it .

THis is not a simple whoops of running a bit outside the driveway to bring in a long wide load ..this neighbor destroyed your property and stole your trees to do it .

 

[Lia]

I’ve seen individual trees worth thousands of dolllars. Three times that puts it over $10,000 for a single tree.

We have no idea what type and how many trees are involved and rheir marktet value is


But the lumberman does.

You are correct and that logger who's getting a law degree said that amount for 15 trees will get to 100 grand. Initially we thought that maximum judgment for the trees can be up top 15 grand + expenses but it's much more.

 

[Lia]

did you ask the logger how much the timber taken off your property was valued at ? since he is seeming to be co operative with you

He doesn't know the amount but when we saw the logging done, we were talking to her like none of our trees were taken and got as much info as possible. She said that she got about $8700 and there were 3 and a half loads. In the beginning we thought that about 2-3 of our trees were taken, the biggest ones but then we invited the professional, he said 12 and we found 3 more stumps in the bushes all the way by the house. Seems like most of logging came from our side, like 60+%. We took pics of all stumps with measuring tape on them. 3 were almost 3 feet in diameter, 6 almost 2 feet and 6 were around 1.5 feet. These are all tall fir trees and the ones the we have left that are almost 3' in diameter going up to about 120' in height.

 

[HRZ]

IF we consider that landowner typically get 60% of profits , tops ..then the numbers you post indicate the TOTAl value of your timber cut considerably exceeds $5000..per her own definition of property line ...and that raises the level of crime in WA to a new level of felony with opportunity for LONG term status in prison if convicted

You seriously need to get counsel to play the poker cards your neighbor handed you...and pay him or her! .

 

[154NH773]

First, you must determine the value of the damage. The logger is required to pay a timber tax, so there is probably a public record of the trees and their mill value, so that’s a start.
You should contact both an arborist and real estate assessor and get the “aesthetic” value to your property that has been damaged. An engineer can assess the damage from the drainage.
You will probably have to sue in a civil court, as the damage is probably above the Small Claims Court limit (I didn’t look up).
You were wrong to push trash into their property. You could have added the cost of cleanup into your suit, but that’s not possible unless you clean the trash off her property.
It doesn’t matter why they cut the trees (moving a trailer), the offense is “ timber trespass.
Document all the damage with photos and affidavits from estimates.
If you win in court, your actual total damages will be tripled.
Get a lawyer.
Compute a settlement that would satisfy you without going to court and present it to them before spending too much money.
I have a friend in Connecticut that obtained a very good settlement after suing his neighbor who cut about 15 of his trees to “improve his view”.

 

[Lia]

Logger came to us with a letter of apology and $500. He mentioned before that he didn't get paid what he was supposed to so I guess she might've cheated him out -- or is he lying? He's about 70 and can't read or write so his woman wrote the letter for him.

And the neighbor finally texted back that she ordered a survey and already paid for it. We said that we want to be there but she said that they'll let her know when which we doubt. We want to be there for sure as she might try to change the spikes so we'll call them first thing Monday morning and ask. It's a good thing as we were going to survey before putting the fence so it's a 2 grand not coming from our pocket. We told her about the logger's apology so she asked is she'll do the same, will we forgive her. We answered that 4.5K will do that since the logger paid 500 and she replied that they had equal share. We replied that she hired him so it's between the two of them how they are going to share the 5 grand but it's the least we'll settle out of court. If we are present at survey, we'll cement the corners and give her credit for 2 grand.

 

[Lia]

IF we consider that landowner typically get 60% of profits , tops ..then the numbers you post indicate the TOTAl value of your timber cut considerably exceeds $5000..per her own definition of property line ...and that raises the level of crime in WA to a new level of felony with opportunity for LONG term status in prison if convicted

You seriously need to get counsel to play the poker cards your neighbor handed you...and pay him or her! .

It all sounds good and if they were rich and working, most likely that's the way we would go but their assets might be exempt from the collection by "Homestead exemption" law in WA so we rather settle out of court as we might spend a lot of money and get nothing. Lawyers don't take cases like these without a full payment from us.