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PAS in Michigan courts?

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan


Is PAS something that judges take seriously? Has anyone ever won custody because of PAS? Is there even a way to prove PAS?

And what are some beginning signs? How long would it take one parent to ultimately turn a child against the other?
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan


Is PAS something that judges take seriously? Has anyone ever won custody because of PAS? Is there even a way to prove PAS?

And what are some beginning signs? How long would it take one parent to ultimately turn a child against the other?
This is complicated, so please bear with me

PAS is completely discredited...about the worst thing you could do in a custody battle is mention PAS if you want to be taken seriously.

The person who invented PAS and its recommended solutions actually committed suicide because his testimony resulted in many children being seriously, sexually abused. PAS is all about potential false claims of sexual abuse and all kinds of bizarre stuff related to that.

Parental alienation, on the other hand, can be legit. However, based on your posting history I don't think that even parental alienation is going to get you very far.
 
I did not know that, about PAS. I've only heard the term in passing. And I'm just trying to find real opinions about it.

It isn't something I plan to use in court or anything.

No disrespect towards your comment, I appreciate the honesty. But my posting history is not very detailed about my situation.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Ig
I did not know that, about PAS. I've only heard the term in passing. And I'm just trying to find real opinions about it.

It isn't something I plan to use in court or anything.

No disrespect towards your comment, I appreciate the honesty. But my posting history is not very detailed about my situation.
If you want good advice from here, or any other internet forum, you have to give details. If you are not comfortable with that, then you need to be consulting an attorney.
 

gam

Senior Member
Stop starting new threads, keep all your posts in your other thread. We are not going to help you when you force us to sit and look up your details. You have not followed your order for mental health services, your in contempt of that order, as you were told in that thread, fix that.
 
I'm sorry for the inconvenience but I am usually mobile and I do not see an option to edit a thread.

I am fixing the fore mentioned, though, thanks.
 
It's not that I am uncomfortable with sharing. I just didn't want to make a post that would take you all two hours to read. Lol. I try to give as many details as I think are relevant to the thread at hand and and hope that readers would ask specific questions if they feel they need more information. As a new member I didn't realize how important posting history was.

This post is mostly about educating myself on the term. I do know that my ex tells my son negative things about me and my family and I also believe that she is coercing him into saying he doesn't want to see or talk to me. Someone mentioned PAS. And I wanted to know more about it. But since your first comment I have read numerous articles saying that it is not a a disorder that is recognized as by psychologists.
 
new question.

Since my ex has denied visitation multiple times and I come long distance even on the days she doesn't let me see him, would I have a shot at changing the order to shared responsibility of transportation?

Could I bring this up at the contempt hearing next week?
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
I'm going to recommend something like Family Wizard where your communications can be seen by the court. You confirm your visit X amount of time ahead of the visit. The other parent has the responsibility to confirm. She doesn't show - can prove contempt.
 

gam

Senior Member
Since my ex has denied visitation multiple times and I come long distance even on the days she doesn't let me see him, would I have a shot at changing the order to shared responsibility of transportation?

Could I bring this up at the contempt hearing next week?
The contempt hearing is on you, not your ex. Did you file contempt on her for denying your visits, did she deny those visits because your not following the order and not in compliance with the mental health services your suppose to be in?

What is the distance and who created that distance? Why do you have to do all the transportation?

This is why you keep all your posts in one thread, because people miss important facts and can't supply you correct legal answers without all the facts.
 
I suggested something similar in mediation. Cozi I think. Or it might have been called something else. But my ex claims she doesn't know how to use it on her phone. I also wanted contact to be strictly email but she claimed she didn't know how to work the email on her phone either. So now there's nothing about communication in our court order. But I use a Google Voice account. It stores every conversation and I can just print it off. I keep all contact to texting.
 
The contempt hearing is on both of us. Her for denying visits. And me for not being in therapy. Which I am back in services now. I don't know if the court will care. Too little too late, ya know?

I offered to do all of the transportation because she was already no showing for scheduled visits at the family center and I just wanted to see my kid.

We had supervised visits for 4 visits because it had been over a year since I saw my son. (Due to my ex no showing, objecting, and court hearings being so stretched out.)

I also created the distance. I met with my case worker for FOC and told him my plans to move. I asked if I needed permission from the court. He said no. And asked if I wanted to period the court to change our plan to a long distance plan and ask for shared transportation. I said no. I can afford the travel. But it seems like such a waste when I'm going up there and returning empty handed. :(
 

gam

Senior Member
The contempt hearing is on both of us. Her for denying visits. And me for not being in therapy. Which I am back in services now. I don't know if the court will care. Too little too late, ya know?

I offered to do all of the transportation because she was already no showing for scheduled visits at the family center and I just wanted to see my kid.

We had supervised visits for 4 visits because it had been over a year since I saw my son. (Due to my ex no showing, objecting, and court hearings being so stretched out.)

I also created the distance. I met with my case worker for FOC and told him my plans to move. I asked if I needed permission from the court. He said no. And asked if I wanted to period the court to change our plan to a long distance plan and ask for shared transportation. I said no. I can afford the travel. But it seems like such a waste when I'm going up there and returning empty handed. :(
Who filed contempt first? If you were in contempt for not following through with the therapy and then mom stopped visits, you may get nowhere with your contempt. While mom is suppose to also follow the court order, there are a few circumstances in Mi where the court will hear why one denies visitation and allow it.

You moved, you created the distance and its pretty much standard that the court will make you do all the transportation. Do you have joint legal custody? Because if you did when you moved, then FOC told you crap. In Mi when an order has joint legal custody, the child has 2 home addresses, and both parents must get the others permission to move or the courts. I would stop listening to FOC, they are not suppose to give out legal advice, they are there to enforce the written order, hear motions, make recommendations. They can't give out legal advice, they can't make orders, they can only make recommendations when one motions the court. Those recommendations can be objected to by either party, and then the motion will be heard by the Judge assigned to the case. Often Judges go against the recommendations made by FOC or Refs. If your going to keep calling FOC then I advise you to see if your county has what they call a parenting time coordinator(might have a different name)in their FOC office, this persons job is to help NCP's with issues, they are much more likely to help you and give you correct information then any of the caseworkers.

You need to go get your kid, if mom is not there with the kid, then you call the police and get a police report, it will also be helpful if you stopped at a nearby store to the pick up spot and purchase something, saving the receipt. You save up a couple of these no shows, file contempt and attach the police reports and/or receipts showing you were there and she was not. You do not need to go through FOC, added step, that takes more time, however it's free to go through them to enforce the order. You can file directly with the Circuit Court of the county your case is in, however you will pay a filing fee. The fees can be found on your Circuit Court website or by calling the Circuit Courts Clerk's office. They vary between counties and between different motions, usually ranging between $40 and $100.

It's far faster to file directly with Circuit Court then FOC, and you skip the added step of FOC, you get a hearing with a Ref. If you go through FOC they will first contact the other parent with the allegations, then they will decide if your complaint has merit, if so then can do 2 things. Make a decision or hold a hearing. Either way they do it, both parties have the right to object and go before a Ref or Judge. Depends on the court sometimes you skip the Ref, sometimes not. Either way it does take time, how much just depends on what county your in, mine is very fast, you can get a hearing in a week, others take a couple of months. There are few that take longer then 4 months to get a hearing in Mi. Some FOC's are faster then others, mine is fast, but still slow compared to just filing directly with the Circuit Court.

That's how you do it when your dealing with a parent who is denying you time. You follow the order, you show for pick ups and if they don't show you get proof that you were there and they were not and then you file contempt. If you follow this, eventually the court will do more then hand slap mom if she continues to deny you your time.
 

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