Payment Required When No Service is Given

[fairisfair]

Your conduct is the biggest difference. When you made payments, you performed as if there were a contract. Unless the fitness club can convince people that you were just gifting the money, there is no question that a contract exists.

By contrast, in the OP's case he can argue that nobody performed (i.e. he paid no fees and took no classes) as if there were a contract, so there is a question as to whether a contract exists. Of course, the dance company can argue that it did perform because it provided "some" classes. Still, if the OP had no idea that he was expected to pay recurring monthly fees, then he has a good argument to pay only for those classes attended and nothing more.



Not gonna give you any eye candy with all the grief you're giving me!

you crack me up!!!! LOL

haha, that is fuuunnny, why is it that "my conduct" always seems to be the difference???? ROTFL

and of course, I am done bothering you now. at least about this. . . . .

 

[fgs]

Payments required when no service is given

Thanks for all of your comments.

My intent with my REQUEST, not demand, to the dance company was to remove the fees for the months my daughter was not there. I don't know about any "implied contract," maybe you could explain how that would exist. Does that mean that by attending I agree to whatever their rules/policies are (written or made up on the spot)? They acknowledge that we do not have a written contract, but they also control who gets in the performance, so if they say we "owe," then no performance. My intent is to find out if their action is legal. The company required up front payment for the performance expenses. Those were paid months ago at the beginning. I have been involved with other local companies that require a written contract, so you know up front what to expect. This company has prorated charges before based on the months attended or not (not the number of classes attended, and this is not what I'm asking for). She would like to go back. I don't want to get "taken." Comments are appreciated.

 

[xylene]

There actions are legal.

Written contracts protect both parties.

You did not want the cost of a long term commitment, but they can still make you pay.

They are under no obligation to pro rate or do for you anything they did for others. They wouldn't be obligated even if you had a contract, unless one of the terms was you would get the same deal as everyone else.

 

[BoredAtty]

Thanks for all of your comments.

My intent with my REQUEST, not demand, to the dance company was to remove the fees for the months my daughter was not there. I don't know about any "implied contract," maybe you could explain how that would exist. Does that mean that by attending I agree to whatever their rules/policies are (written or made up on the spot)?

An implied contract is formed by actions rather than words.

For example, you may have never formally agreed to your dentist's fees (it may have never even been mentioned), but that doesn't mean that you have no contractual obligation to pay a reasonable fee for his services after a checkup. This obligation arises from your unwritten/unspoken understanding and agreement that the dentist would be paid for his services.

Likewise, you have a contractual obligation to pay a reasonable fee for dance classes that your daughter attended. The question is whether you are also contractually obligated to pay for dance classes that your daughter did not attend. Unless you knew that the dance company was expecting monthly payments regardless of whether classes were attended, then given the lack of agreement on the issue (and the fact that the dance company pro rated classes in the past), the answer is probably "no."

They acknowledge that we do not have a written contract, but they also control who gets in the performance, so if they say we "owe," then no performance. My intent is to find out if their action is legal. The company required up front payment for the performance expenses. Those were paid months ago at the beginning. I have been involved with other local companies that require a written contract, so you know up front what to expect. This company has prorated charges before based on the months attended or not (not the number of classes attended, and this is not what I'm asking for). She would like to go back. I don't want to get "taken." Comments are appreciated.

Assuming there was no understanding or agreement that your daughter may not perform if the dance company is not paid for classes, then the dance company probably has an obligation to let her perform since you separately paid for it. However, your damages for that breach is probably just the money that you paid for that purpose.

My answers are not conclusive, however, since the outcome will be very fact specific.

 

[fgs]

You did not want the cost of a long term commitment, but they can still make you pay.

I did not set up the terms, the company did. THEY INFORMED ME that payments are month to month.

 

[fgs]

To BoredAtty:

For example, you may have never formally agreed to your dentist's fees (it may have never even been mentioned), but that doesn't mean that you have no contractual obligation to pay a reasonable fee for his services after a checkup. This obligation arises from your unwritten/unspoken understanding and agreement that the dentist would be paid for his services.

I understand that I would have to pay for services rendered if the service is rendered "correctly." This means that the service is actually given to the client, is appropriate and does not cause injury to the client.

I do not believe that merely having your doors open so that anyone may come in constitutes "services rendered." That may work for a gym, not a performance company. But the company believes that.

I am trying to determine if I owe them merely because their doors were open. It is not like they made any special arrangements just for her. Is there anything that you can put your finger on that tells me definitively one way or another? At the beginning of the season, we paid for performance expenses. They already have that. If not allowed to participate, we will lose that. They will not reimburse. I know that because they pay this money to another organization. After not being at the company for nearly two months, when I asked them about possible proration, they decided to bill me for the intervening months and tack on fees (BTW, we still have not been there in over two months and they are still trying to bill me and at the same time agreeing that we don't have a contract). They tell me that the intervening time can be "made up" by going to another instructor's class and dancing with them for a short while. However, I don't see the benefit of this since each instructor has their own performance routine, so other than just being in the building and dancing, there is no benefit in regards to the performance routine. We also register at beginning of season. That constitutes putting your name, address, phone number, etc, on an index card and paying them a nonrefundable fee. They do not have written contracts. Perhaps it is easier to pull stunts like this if you don't. THEY INFORM US that payment is on a month to month basis. It is not for the parent's convenience or because we don't want long term commitment. Is there any other info that I can provide that would help resolve this? Thanks as always for comments.

 

[fairisfair]

I did not set up the terms, the company did. THEY INFORMED ME that payments are month to month.

WHEN did they inform you that the payments were month to month?

Did your daughter attend ANY classes after that time?

what did you pay for the right to perform?

what was that to include?

 

[fairisfair]

To BoredAtty:



I understand that I would have to pay for services rendered if the service is rendered "correctly." This means that the service is actually given to the client, is appropriate and does not cause injury to the client.

I do not believe that merely having your doors open so that anyone may come in constitutes "services rendered." That may work for a gym, not a performance company. But the company believes that.

I am trying to determine if I owe them merely because their doors were open. It is not like they made any special arrangements just for her. Is there anything that you can put your finger on that tells me definitively one way or another? At the beginning of the season, we paid for performance expenses. They already have that. If not allowed to participate, we will lose that. They will not reimburse. I know that because they pay this money to another organization. After not being at the company for nearly two months, when I asked them about possible proration, they decided to bill me for the intervening months and tack on fees (BTW, we still have not been there in over two months and they are still trying to bill me and at the same time agreeing that we don't have a contract). They tell me that the intervening time can be "made up" by going to another instructor's class and dancing with them for a short while. However, I don't see the benefit of this since each instructor has their own performance routine, so other than just being in the building and dancing, there is no benefit in regards to the performance routine. We also register at beginning of season. That constitutes putting your name, address, phone number, etc, on an index card and paying them a nonrefundable fee. They do not have written contracts. Perhaps it is easier to pull stunts like this if you don't. THEY INFORM US that payment is on a month to month basis. It is not for the parent's convenience or because we don't want long term commitment. Is there any other info that I can provide that would help resolve this? Thanks as always for comments.

so you understood that your performance deposit was non refundable? at least that is my take.

How could your daughter even perform anyway if she has not attended any of the classes.

That alone makes no sense to me.

and I am sensible about all things. . . . except BA. ROTFL

 

[fgs]

so you understood that your performance deposit was non refundable? at least that is my take.

How could your daughter even perform anyway if she has not attended any of the classes.

That alone makes no sense to me.

Please read all of the posts before making such statements. I never said that she had not attended any classes.

I knew the deposit was nonrefundable because they said so when I paid it. THE DEPOSIT IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PERFORMANCE EXPENSE OR THE MONTHLY EXPENSE.

This item is closed. The company has agreed to cancel the charges. Thanks to all for your comments.

 

[fairisfair]

Please read all of the posts before making such statements. I never said that she had not attended any classes.

I knew the deposit was nonrefundable because they said so when I paid it. THE DEPOSIT IS NOT THE SAME AS THE PERFORMANCE EXPENSE OR THE MONTHLY EXPENSE.

This item is closed. The company has agreed to cancel the charges. Thanks to all for your comments.

Uh, I did read the post, you have indicated that your daughter has not attended the classes in some time. and yet, you expect for her to be able to perform with those children who have.

don't blame ME because we are having to to pull the information out of you like bad teeth.

so they have cancelled the charges. goody for you. I think we were all really more concerned with whether or not princess gets to dance.

 

[BoredAtty]

I do not believe that merely having your doors open so that anyone may come in constitutes "services rendered." That may work for a gym, not a performance company. But the company believes that.

I am trying to determine if I owe them merely because their doors were open. It is not like they made any special arrangements just for her. Is there anything that you can put your finger on that tells me definitively one way or another?

I think I answered this already. I agree that you probably do not owe the money. But no, there is no law that says "if your daughter attends dance classes, and there is no express contract, then...." All you can do is argue the facts if it goes to court.