Public profanity?

[JustAPal00]

What is the name of your state? PA

Does anyone know if there are any laws against the excessive use of profanity in public. A female friend of ours called the police tonight on the neighbors kids for constantly saying the "F" word outside. They are very loud, and at first she went over and asked the father when he got home from work to please do something about the kids. When the kids heard that she had done that they came over and told her they would say whatever the "F-ing" want and if she didn't like it she could call the cops. Well she did. When the police arrived, they talked with both parties, but told her that due to free speach they couldn't do anything.

 

[quincy]

The police were right. It is free speech and they can't do anything about it. There are, in Pennsylvania, "nuisance" laws - and if the conduct of these kids was "outrageous" enough, they could be charged with being a private or a public nuisance. But swearing is not outrageous enough to warrant that charge, apparently.

Michigan did away with an 1897 "anti-cussing" law, after a canoeist was arrested (in 2000, I think) for swearing in earshot of an offended mother and her children. He argued free speech, and won (I think on appeal).

 

[FlyingRon]

The PA disorderly conduct statue:

(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:


3. uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or

is frequently invoked when people swear at cops.

 

[JustAPal00]

Thanks for your help. I know we're guaranteed th right to free speach, but I wasn't sure about profanity. This is a case where the garage of this house has a pool table in it and a lot of local kids hang out there. The problem is the garage faces out the side of the home directly at hers. When the kids are hanging out the sound is projected right at her house. She has a couple of small kids and was upset at the language. The "F" word seems to be the most popular and is probably said loudly at least 10 times a minute. Every sentence contians the word "F-ing".

 

[seniorjudge]

...I know we're guaranteed th right to free speach, but I wasn't sure about profanity....

Free speech covers everything, not just warm and fuzzy stuff.

 

[quincy]

JustaPal00 - Police will not arrest for swearing, no matter how profane or vulgar the language. Disorderly conduct does not cover swearing alone. If the language becomes violent or sexually obscene, then the police will step in. Pennsylvania police have lost in court over arrests for swearing before, and those arrested, with the support of the ACLU, have won on the First Amendment rights - again and again and again.

 

[CdwJava]

JustaPal00 - Police will not arrest for swearing, no matter how profane or vulgar the language. Disorderly conduct does not cover swearing alone. If the language becomes violent or sexually obscene, then the police will step in. Pennsylvania police have lost in court over arrests for swearing before, and those arrested, with the support of the ACLU, have won on the First Amendment rights - again and again and again.

Which is odd because the First Amendment is geared towards the exercise of free political speech and not necessarily that which is obscene or disruptive.

But, the law is as it is, and being rude and obnoxious is not generally criminal.

- Carl

 

[quincy]

"Free political speech" often is obscene and disruptive (and rude and obnoxious), hence the First Amendment protection.

 

[CdwJava]

"Free political speech" often is obscene and disruptive (and rude and obnoxious), hence the First Amendment protection.

Most obscene speech is NOT of a political nature. And since we DO regulate non-political speech it IS theoretically possible to regulate obscene speech ... the problem is the subjective nature of what is obscene. The courts have managed to discover many things in the Constitution that I do not believe were ever there ... but, that is a question of politics.

Heck, in a few years it is very possible that my expression of my religious views could be considered hate speech ... such is the way that politics has managed to pervert what was likely the intent of the founders in so many of the amendments. (Yes, there ARE bills in Congress right now that COULD have that effect ... one was defeated just yesterday, but it is still kicking around.)

- Carl

 

[19225-004]

do you really want the kids to get arrested/charged for saying the f-word? What constitutes profanity technically is subjective (at least I think so..does the government have a list of words that are legally considered profane? the FCC does I guess).

To a lot of people, saying "jesus christ" is obscene. Drawing a picture of mohammed can start riots and get people killed because some groups find it profane. It wouldn't bother me if people said the F-word outside my house (we say it inside all the time) but it does suck if petulent kids are insisting on using it around you and it genuinely offends you. The thing is that laws like that inevitably get turned around and used for different purposes and can backfire pretty easily. If they banned the widely accepted cursewords, it would only take enough people who are offended by another word to get it banned too.

I don't think there's any law that could stop those kids from saying the F-word, and I'm glad there isn't. My legal advice may not be that reliable but I think you could probably get them to say it a little less when you're around if instead of going over their heads to their dad (who apparently doesn't care anyway) you just talked straight to the kids in a respectful (not deference, but respect that hopefully they will reciprocate) and explain why it bothers you. then ask them to stop. Of course, theres a good chance that they're just brats who will tell you to go F yourself.

PS. sorry if this post is off topic or not legal enough in nature..I just found this forum today and I'm still figuring out the vibe.

 

[quincy]

19225-004 - Actually, I found your post to have good on-topic comments and excellent advice. And I happen to agree with you.