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Quick trademark/copyright question

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quincy

Senior Member
Wow, that's interesting.

Quincy, you state "you CAN make, say, "MICHIGAN" tee-shirts in maize and white, or blue and grey, or even pale blue with lemon yellow, to avoid infringement"

So if the colors are off a little bit it might be legal? Who determines if they're 'off' enough?

Thanks
Dave
Who determines if the colors are "off" enough to not be infringing on any rights can ultimately be a court.

You will generally hear from the trademark holders first. The trademark holders will let you know if the colors are NOT off enough and they will let you know that you are infringing on their rights (this whether you are or not). When you receive an infringement notice, there is some cause for concern.

Second will often be an attorney, whose advice you would probably want before you pay any demands that might be made by the trademark holder. The attorney will look at the colors in question and provide you with an opinion based on trademark law and case law.

Third would be the court, if you ignore any compensation demands made by the trademark holder, the dispute continues, and the trademark holder decides to pursue an infringement action against you.

Here is one additional link that directs you to a thread started by a poster who was interested in using the Florida Gator's "Swamp" trademark for his website. Discussed in this thread are names and colors and slogans and nicknames that have trademark protection.

https://forum.freeadvice.com/copyrights-trademarks-39/website-logo-use-trademarks-527598.html
 
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davep763

Junior Member
So this is slightly off topic but if I have all the letters and numbers in the English alphabet (and multiples of all the letters/numbers with even more of the most popular letters...think Scrabble), can I advertise the product as having "infinite combinations" or "millions of combinations"? The true number of combinations must be at least in the hundreds of thousands if not millions but I don't have any data to back up that claim, nor do I want to gather the data. Would advertising the product as having "millions of combinations" be considered misleading or open me up to a lawsuit (assuming more than 3 people buy it :) )?

Thanks!
Dave
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
So this is slightly off topic but if I have all the letters and numbers in the English alphabet (and multiples of all the letters/numbers with even more of the most popular letters...think Scrabble), can I advertise the product as having "infinite combinations" or "millions of combinations"? The true number of combinations must be at least in the hundreds of thousands if not millions but I don't have any data to back up that claim, nor do I want to gather the data. Would advertising the product as having "millions of combinations" be considered misleading or open me up to a lawsuit (assuming more than 3 people buy it :) )?

Thanks!
Dave
I am without speech.
 

davep763

Junior Member
I am without speech.
?

The point I was trying to make was that there's absolutely no way I can figure out exactly how many english/spanish/french/italian words I can make out of all the letters and numbers/symbols I'm including in the product. Unfortunately this isn't a straight numerical computation.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
It means *I* am without speech at the bolded portion of your post. That is all.

It does not mean everyone else in the world thinks the same things I do.
 

davep763

Junior Member
So what you're saying is, despite the fact that there is a very real possibility that 100's of thousands of words and word combinations (if not over a million) can be made from my product, unless I have data to back that up I should just steer clear of that claim?

(Was just staying near WP, looks like WP didn't have a ton of snow?)
 

quincy

Senior Member
So this is slightly off topic but if I have all the letters and numbers in the English alphabet (and multiples of all the letters/numbers with even more of the most popular letters...think Scrabble), can I advertise the product as having "infinite combinations" or "millions of combinations"? The true number of combinations must be at least in the hundreds of thousands if not millions but I don't have any data to back up that claim, nor do I want to gather the data. Would advertising the product as having "millions of combinations" be considered misleading or open me up to a lawsuit (assuming more than 3 people buy it :) )?

Thanks!
Dave
What claims like "infinite combinations" or "millions of combinations" would be looked at as are either puffery, which is okay, or false advertising, which is not.

Puffery is an advertising claim that no consumer is expected to, or could, take seriously. Consumers understand that what is claimed is not meant to be true or might be stretching the truth. It is like bragging. Examples: A restaurant says they have the "best hamburgers in the world;" A store says they have "everything you could ever want under one roof."

False advertising, on the other hand, is when a claim is made that a consumer could or does take seriously - and the consumer might rely on the claim when making a purchasing decision. It is like lying. Examples: A motor oil "outperforms any leading motor oil against viscosity breakdown" (that quote is from an actual false advertising case filed by Castrol against Penzoil that Penzoil lost).

I would think that "infinite combinations" would fall in the puffery category. It is unlikely any consumer will test that claim, at any rate.

If a claim can be proved false, you do not want to make that claim. If there is no way a claim can be proved true or false, then it can be okay to use (as long as a competitor does not take exception to the claim and decide to sue you anyway).
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
There are a infinite number of monkeys at the door wanting to discuss with you this script for Hamlet they've worked out.
 

davep763

Junior Member
Quincy-Thank you for your succinct and clear explanation! I think my claim would fall under 'puffery' or I will phrase it so it will fall under puffery. "Infinite combinations" is obviously puffery due to the fact there is a finite amount of words available, I think I'm good to go! Unless of course another product becomes available that offers a mere "10,000 combinations available". :) Thanks for your help!

FlyingRon-Those monkeys have at least 3 more years before they start banging on my door.

My product is almost embarrassingly unimaginative but I think it fills a void. It should be finalized by mid-May and that's when I'll lift the proverbial kilt. I'm sure you guys will say "Oh, so that's what the moron was going after, ha!". It's been a fun and frustrating road but thanks for all the information, it's been really helpful!
 

quincy

Senior Member
Quincy-Thank you for your succinct and clear explanation! I think my claim would fall under 'puffery' or I will phrase it so it will fall under puffery. "Infinite combinations" is obviously puffery due to the fact there is a finite amount of words available, I think I'm good to go! Unless of course another product becomes available that offers a mere "10,000 combinations available". :) Thanks for your help!

FlyingRon-Those monkeys have at least 3 more years before they start banging on my door.

My product is almost embarrassingly unimaginative but I think it fills a void. It should be finalized by mid-May and that's when I'll lift the proverbial kilt. I'm sure you guys will say "Oh, so that's what the moron was going after, ha!". It's been a fun and frustrating road but thanks for all the information, it's been really helpful!
We are happy to have helped you, in even a minor way, get your product ready for the marketplace, davep763. Voids need to be filled. :)

I wish you much success.
 

davep763

Junior Member
back again!

Ok, so here's another question for the peanut gallery: Can I use current presidential candidate political icons for commercial use in my product? I would imagine they would want to spread the word, right? I can't believe every Hillary for President t-shirt has been sanctioned by Team Hillary for use.

Also, I have a meeting with the Director of Licensing at Colorado University and the head of the campus bookstore to use their logo. I'm going to try to pitch this as a homegrown product and hopefully obtain the CU license. Any information I should be aware of before the meeting or do you have any suggestions?

Thanks once again!
Dave

PS The product has been delayed because my wife gave birth to our beautiful baby girl 3 weeks early! I know everyone has been refreshing this page every minute for months to find out exactly what my mystery product is. ;) Once the website is finally finished in the next week or so I'll post a link with a quick description (if that's allowed....if not, I'll just describe it).
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Congratulations on the birth of your baby girl, Dave! That is very happy news. I hope all of you are doing well. And I hope that you and your wife are slowly adjusting to the lack of sleep. :)

Ok, so here's another question for the peanut gallery: Can I use current presidential candidate political icons for commercial use in my product? I would imagine they would want to spread the word, right? I can't believe every Hillary for President t-shirt has been sanctioned by Team Hillary for use.
Although it seems reasonable to think presidential candidates, or any politician, would benefit from the free publicity they would get if their names or images are used in or on products created by others, and that they would therefore appreciate having their names or images displayed and distributed and marketed by others, that is not always the case. Politicians, and all famous people, DO give up some of their privacy rights when they place themselves on the national or world stage. But, what they lose in the way of privacy they gain in the way of publicity rights.

Publicity rights allow a person (any person) to use their own name and image for commercial gain. Most people, though, do not have names or images that are valuable. I could not easily sell a tee-shirt that had my image on it (except, perhaps, to my mom). Celebrity or famous people names and images DO attract public attention and the public will often pay for items connected to these famous people.

This is most apparent in advertising campaigns, when celebrities are paid by a company to promote their business, their product or their service in ads. You have famous people hawking colognes and insurance companies and cosmetics and sports equipment. These famous people often make the bulk of their fortunes through their sponsorship and endorsement deals.

While not too many companies will use politicians to help promote a product or service, because politicians can draw unwanted controversy and criticism that a company does not want attached in the public's mind with what they offer, the names and images of politicians have been used in commercial ways in the past. Sometimes this works out well for all. Sometimes it doesn't.

There was a lawsuit filed by Arnold Schwarzenegger against the makers of Bobble Heads over an Arnold Bobble Head (the case was settled and all profits from the sales went to a charity of Schwarzenegger's choice). And there were problems when a doll maker (Mattel? I can't remember offhand) made Malia and Sasha dolls in the image of the Obama girls. The first lady was upset with the company's use of her daughters' names and images and, under public pressure, the dolls were removed from the market.

So, while making a Hillary tee-shirt may not make Hillary threaten a legal action (and she and President Clinton both have Bobble Head dolls), I suppose a derogatory tee-shirt could draw some Clinton wrath. A suit could be based on either publicity rights or, depending on what the tee-shirt depicted or said, defamation.

Finally, most images you see online or elsewhere have a copyright holder and you would need to acquire rights from the copyright holder (usually in the form of a license) if you wish to use any copyrighted image of a politician.

In other words, it really depends on the facts of your use and the politician.

Also, I have a meeting with the Director of Licensing at Colorado University and the head of the campus bookstore to use their logo. I'm going to try to pitch this as a homegrown product and hopefully obtain the CU license. Any information I should be aware of before the meeting or do you have any suggestions?
Here is a link to information on University of Colorado's licensing policy, which lists the minimum standards for licensees: http://www.colorado.edu/policies/licensing-policy

If you are talking about Colorado State University, here is a link to their website - but the University of Colorado's licensing policy is similar to that of most universities, so it is worth a read: http://www.colostate.edu/

Thanks once again!

PS The product has been delayed because my wife gave birth to our beautiful baby girl 3 weeks early! I know everyone has been refreshing this page every minute for months to find out exactly what my mystery product is. ;) Once the website is finally finished in the next week or so I'll post a link with a quick description (if that's allowed....if not, I'll just describe it).
It is always nice to have you back here, Dave - and, yes, we are anxiously awaiting information about your mystery product. Links are often flagged by the moderator but you can try to post a link - if not, a description would be welcome.

Again, congratulations on the birth of your baby. :)
 
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