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Rent discrepency- continueing saga

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Tayla

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA

A few weeks back I sought advice, and I thank those who read and responded maturely.

Here is the current data as its stands:

Effective 10/1/08 became a month to month tenant due to Lack of co-operation from Property manager to resolve Lease document terminolgy and rights of both sides.
On 10/1/08 rent increased. How much? Who knows! Property manager wouldn't put it in writing for clarification. Paid though based on the office staff and her book of standard rates for my apartment type. 5 days later comes a quit/pay notice. The rent amount was wrong. By how much- no one could say! They just nailed us for 30$ per day late fees....Never stating what the true amount was to have been. Paid immediately but...

On Oct 7th on advice of counsel a formal letter was presented requesting the month to month rate for my apartment type along with park fee/pet fees, NO response.
On Oct 16th a Letter of Intent to Vacate was issued- certified mail, Signed for and tentatively rejected ( see earlier post on that matter). Got resolved and accepted after lawyer wrote the property manager and asked for the verbatium steps required based on lease provision. Seems my notice was correct under lease term:)
On November 1st, once again I walk over to rental office-specifically request the correct rental amount to issue check for. Suddenly office member can't seem to bring my file up on her computer ( how convenient) Wonder where her regulation rate book went that she used before? We agree to pay an additional 25$ more just to cover any mishap in rental pay. I get a receipt and on my way I go. Last evening a neighbor of mine found a quit pay notice in a corner of the hallway ( crumpled) and went to toss out the paper and realized it was for my apartment. It was dated November 7th. Telling me I had til the tenth to pay up or vacate. This document was never attached to my door so how was I to know...thank goodness the neighbor saw it!
Today at the meeting that I requested, the property manager had a sudden medical matter to take care of and couldn't be seen, so she left notes on what to say if I showed up. 1: Property Manager"We are confused by the letter in which you want a final tabulation of how the rent is being accessed per month."My response: Example: Base rate for my apartment type is 1k, plus 30$ for pet, plus 20$ parking fee. Making amount due that month 1050. Yet each time I try to get a precise answer of what is due, it changes!
Somehow they cant grasp the idea that I want it itemized out so we have the correct mathematical amount for correct distribution of funds!
Instead I can look forward as a tenant WHO WANTS TO PAY ACCORDINGLY, a quit pay because the Property manager just hasnt figured out how much more she can bleed me for before I finally take this matter to a court of law.
Next I ask to have the name of the Division property manager or the corporate address so I can persue this on another level. Staff response: Sorry its against our policy to give out. But we'll have someone call you! (Like who? The sherriffs department?).

My lawyer is staying out of this until I vacate as he thinks a smooth transistion in which I passively do whatever the landlord demands should give me a break when I try to find a new place. FAT chance of that since the property manager has already logged two late pays on the ledger despite not giving true data of what amount is due. All she keeps reciting is Fair market value plus $50 markup plus your pet fee plus parking fee. How is that considered a final amount on a check???

Any suggestions folks on what action I can take on getting this cleared up? I seriously just want to bite my tongue, PAY the outragous and non-sensical fees this person drums up and move on. But this constant non responsiveness when issues are addressed and wanting resolution is perturbing! Seriously I know ALOT of you posters are PRO LANDLORD but sometimes us tenants just simply want what any consumer or adult would require an accurate account of what is due and how it was tabulated. My 2007 lease doesnt have what the FMV is for the rental place so please dont ask that I refer to that for guidance, its from another Property management that was here last year.

Thanks for suggestions or objective feedback.!
 
Last edited:


FarmerJ

Senior Member
Tayla your property manager never did put into writting via a notice to you how much the rent would increase so I kind of think they hung them selfs , Personally If it was me I would make them take me to court to prove any claims regarding unpaid rent. BUT thats me!
 

MIRAKALES

Senior Member
In tenant’s initial post (Sent notice and get.… 10-24-2008), the advice provided in post #3 is essentially the same advice provided by tenant’s attorney:
Tenant should acknowledge the letter and instruction from LL. Request in writing that LL provide the required forms and language needed to perform proper Notice to Vacate. In addition, request LL provide detailed Move-Out Instructions. The pre-move out confrontation will not help either the tenant or LL.
Tenant will benefit by being able to provide proof of original certified mailing, followed by secondary mailing in accordance with LL’s requirements. Pick your battles carefully. Although tenant’s notice may be valid, comply with LL’s request and make the move-out and transition as smooth as possible.
My lawyer is staying out of this until I vacate as he thinks a smooth transition in which I passively do whatever the landlord demands should give me a break when I try to find a new place...
Any suggestions folks on what action I can take on getting this cleared up?... But this constant non responsiveness when issues are addressed and wanting resolution is perturbing! Seriously I know ALOT of you posters are PRO LANDLORD but sometimes us tenants just simply want what any consumer or adult would require an accurate account of what is due and how it was tabulated.
There is a difference between being PRO-Landlord and being PRO-Business Management. Contrary to common tenant belief, most professional LLs are focused on the best interest of the property (which is also in the tenant’s best interest). It is a LLs intention to maintain solid financial management to remain solvent. Holding a tenant accountable for non-existent lease violations is not rationale, productive, nor financially lucrative. The PM/LL has an obvious discrepancy with tenant (YOU) which has been classified as a lease violation.

ADVICE: Tenant should send a written statement to LL via USPS certified mail to dispute/counteract LL’s claim of lease violations and tenant liability. Tenant should not communicate with LL in-person or via telephone in order to document and prepare for court should legal action be required. The specific amount disputed by tenant is not clear, but there appears to be a matter of principle on both sides, since the financial amounts ($100-$300) appear to be nominal.
DISCLOSURE is important for accurate information and response:
Q&A: Was the LL’s “green card” tacked on tenants door a legal notice? If so, what did the notice state, exactly?
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
This is ridiculous.

You are a month to month tenant. Ok fine. They stil can't raise your rent unless they give you WRITTEN NOTICE of the new amount, at least 30 days/one full calender month in advance. Since you have never received written notice advising you of the new amount, you don't owe a PENNY more then the rent agreed to in your original lease. If the lease includes a provision for the rent going up after 1 year, then that's what you would follow, otherwise they need to provide a written notice of EXACTLY what they new rent amount is before they can expect you to pay it.

Why hasn't your lawyer informed them of this? That is the most basic of LL/T law. Are you planning on moving? I think you need to get out of there and then you can sue them for anything you paid over the original agreed rent amount just to get them off your back.
 

Tayla

Member
This is ridiculous.

You are a month to month tenant. Ok fine. They stil can't raise your rent unless they give you WRITTEN NOTICE of the new amount, at least 30 days/one full calender month in advance. Since you have never received written notice advising you of the new amount, you don't owe a PENNY more then the rent agreed to in your original lease. If the lease includes a provision for the rent going up after 1 year, then that's what you would follow, otherwise they need to provide a written notice of EXACTLY what they new rent amount is before they can expect you to pay it.

Why hasn't your lawyer informed them of this? That is the most basic of LL/T law. Are you planning on moving? I think you need to get out of there and then you can sue them for anything you paid over the original agreed rent amount just to get them off your back.
Ecms- PA tenant law does say if tenant goes from yearly lease to monthly then the landlord can adjust the rate. I agree with the law in that way. The concern which we all agree is that NO written documentation by the landlord in total sums due has been issued.By not signing the yearly lease by the end of September we were verbally told that we went under the lease guidelines for increased rates-month to month tenant. Problem is and was stated- It doesnt say how much more.

Wouldnt the courts want to know that an effort was made by the tenant to remedy the matters of rent pay before it reached the courts? I just cant imagine the courts wanting a beligerent tenant in front of them who didn't put forth an effort to work thru matters with the landlord. (Property manager). Again I stress, we want to pay and pay what is rightfully due. We want to leave on good terms not with these clouds of discontent for non resolution.

Yes my lawyer did advise that we request the correct amount in writing.

The green card didn't get tacked to my door. I simply acknowledged that I did receive the green card back from the post office with the LL's signature for my records.

Thanks for the suggestions of at this point keeping to documentation and certified mailings. That part I can sustain til we depart in Late December.

98% of business is to increase profit and maintain. I get that. I also work in a business that enforces customer satisfaction for products used. Customers are the lifeblood to sustain profits and future growth.

A sincere thanks to each of the respondents. I really do appreciate your wisdom and suggestions!
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
Your rent is not legally raised until the next full calender month after you receive WRITTEN NOTICE. Verbal notice doesn't mean squat. If you receive written notice today, then your new rent takes effect 1/1/09 and not a moment sooner. Even if verbal notice DID count, which it doesn't, it wouldn't be considered given without an AMOUNT. They have NO case to evict you or sue you for anything if you paid the original rent rate. since you have not received written notice of anything else.
 

Tayla

Member
For the most part, I see your point ECM.

Each year though when a tenant is given a 45 day notice that the new lease is available for signature it comes with a cover letter . Which states (in my interpretation) : That if tenant doesnt re-sign then they fall under the former lease provisions with a month to month lease option. Which is listed as : FMV plus 50 dollars plus the two additional fees that were agreed on in the former year lease. Pet fee, Park fee
So technically I would think that is their notice of rate increase and ability to raise it. I never had a 50 dollar plus fee that is not clarifeid- so I assume that is part of the increase.....

Thanks for your insight to this matter!
 

BL

Senior Member
What is it you and your lawyer can't get through your thick heads ?

They LL/management has to give you an exact amount on what you need to pay in writing .

Duh !! Well your rent is FMV , OK I'll pay $25.00 more just in case , then they come back with pay or quit .

Pay what amount ?

Duh !! FMV +

Shove it , I'll see you in court .

Put your rent is escrow , or what ever your law requires , and write them you have the rent ( state where ) , and you'll be happy to pay when they give you in writing the amount , or you'll see them in court .

It's not rocket science .

If my manager wrote and told me on my re-cert , your rent will be FMV , do you think I'd pay over what I previously Pd. ?
 

Tayla

Member
Thanks BL! Spoke to that *thickheaded* lawyer of mine , seems that PA tenant/ Landlord statutues DO allow for escrow of rents due IF : 1- Tenants place is deemed inhabitable and landlord has made no effort for repair after tenant gave notice. (Doesnt apply to my situation) or is deemed inhabitable by code authority. or: B- After a magistrate or judge has made it an order.

On a side note:
An escrow account can be setup for security deposits if both sides agree and are informed of the bank holding such.

Meet with the lawyer and his staff Monday . Willing to go the court route and resolve this formally.
Thanks folks for your insights!
 

BL

Senior Member
Thanks BL! Spoke to that *thickheaded* lawyer of mine , seems that PA tenant/ Landlord statutues DO allow for escrow of rents due IF : 1- Tenants place is deemed inhabitable and landlord has made no effort for repair after tenant gave notice. (Doesnt apply to my situation) or is deemed inhabitable by code authority. or: B- After a magistrate or judge has made it an order.

On a side note:
An escrow account can be setup for security deposits if both sides agree and are informed of the bank holding such.

Meet with the lawyer and his staff Monday . Willing to go the court route and resolve this formally.
Thanks folks for your insights!
Well your rental disagreement doesn't fall under putting it in escrow then .

Perhaps open up a second bank account ( savings ) and place your rent in it to show the court you do have the rent , you just don't know how much because they won't give you the figures .
 

ecmst12

Senior Member
Last I checked, "FMV" is not a number. They need to give you a number, in writing, or they have not met their notification obligations.
 

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