Speeding

[Levicw]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arizona
I was stopped in Arizona recently for going 89 in a 65 and was told by the officer that he didn't lock in the radar until i was going 87. He then proceeded to tell me that he didn't need to lock in the radar and that all he needed to do was get a reading. It has always been my understanding that he needed to lock in the radar to write a ticket and that this would need to be shown as proof of speeding. Is he right about this or is it just another case of an officer playing God and making up laws as he goes.

It isn't necessary for anyone to tell me that I shouldn't have been speeding, I know that and I think everyone else in this forum does too so please keep it to yourself.

 

[The Occultist]

When an officer is trained on using RADAR, he is actually being trained to visually estimate speeds. The RADAR is merely there to act as a confirmation.

Even if he locked in the correct speed, it wouldn't really matter. The device does not store speeds until the day of trial, nor does it print out any sort of receipt that the officer will bring to court with him. Even if the device did those things, it wouldn't matter because all that would mean is that he clocked "something" moving that fast. So, as you can see, the actual RADAR device isn't that important, and the court will very likely accept the officer's testimony that you were going 89mph.

So, what exactly are you being charged with?

 

[Levicw]

I am being charged with excessive speed which is a criminal violation. does this change the nature of the court proceedings in any way?

 

[I_Got_Banned]

is it just another case of an officer playing God and making up laws as he goes.

How many other case of "an officer playing God" can you cite?

Has it happened to you before? Or is this also part of that "understanding" that you mentioned in your post?

Like the Occultists stated in his reply, there isn't any requirement that the officer HAS TO lock in a speed reading nor does he have to show it to you or anyone else for him to cite you for particular speed... In fact, he can estimate your speed to be one thing (lets say 80mph), confirm it with Radar as 82mph and then decide to give you a break and cite you for 75mph.

He later goes to court and testifies to those exact facts and unless you can offer anything to refute his testimony, or prove that his estimate or reading is inaccurate or erroneous, then the citation will still stick.

I too used to get an attitude about me when I would get pulled over. But then i realized that the only one I am hurting by doing that is myself. Officers do this all day long and if every driver that they pull over is gonna give them an attitude and question their authority, integrity and ability to do their job...

Catch my drift?

 

[Levicw]

I am very well aware of what that attitude will do for me when dealing with an officer and I don't put that face on when dealing with them but hell yes I can give specific times when an officer played god and made up the rules, more than that I can site times when that same court that I am currently dealing with (different judge due to a much needed removal) upheld that officers citation after extensive effort of mine to prove my innocence. The town I grew up in had two religions, the cops were all of one faith and me and my family were of another faith and this being an extremist town my family was openly singled out. I still showed them the respect that I had to because of the badge but numerous officer suspensions and a whole lot of court cases later it has become quite apparent to everyone that the real problem was the officers who would make a citation and a judge that wouldn't listen to a case before handing out a maximum fine to any of us that were sent to see him. Which happened with anything that they could pin on us including a town 10:00 curfew that stated we could not be idle or loiter on the streets but when an officer decided that meant you can't be on the streets at all that is what the judge agreed it meant. Don't think that I have it out for law enforcement, I know that there are a lot of men and women on the force who are good people, I just also know that the position of power is particularly appealing to the pricks who feel the need to run around with power to make themselves feel special. Don't get the idea that I am just some punk kid playing the victim, I have had confirmation from police on every side of my town that my town was crooked so I know it can happen and I have seen the worst.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I am very well aware of what that attitude will do for me when dealing with an officer and I don't put that face on when dealing with them.

If you say so... if I were an officer though, and if I had to tell you that I didn't lock in the radar until you was going 87. And then I proceeded to tell you that I didn't need to lock in the radar and that all I needed to do was get a reading.

That might be because you gave me the same line you stated in your post... that being "It has always been my understanding that he needed to lock in the radar to write a ticket and that this would need to be shown as proof of speeding".

hell yes I can give specific times when an officer played god and made up the rules, more than that I can site times when that same court that I am currently dealing with (different judge due to a much needed removal) upheld that officers citation after extensive effort of mine to prove my innocence.

So are you saying that this judge concocted with the officer to convict you despite your innocence and he got removed from the bench for doing so & YET the officer was not reprimanded in any way?

The town I grew up in had two religions, the cops were all of one faith and me and my family were of another faith and this being an extremist town my family was openly singled out.

So you and your family are one religion and the cops are another... What religion are the Judges? Don't tell me a third religion... That would totally complicate this whole tale... I mean story.
AND This is all in Arizona, U. S. of A.????????????

And knowing all this, you still come on here post a question that suggests that the cop screwed you over by citing you and you are expecting to get an answer that you would take into this partial and unfair courthouse where you know you are gonna lose regardless of what your argument consisted of!!!!

I still showed them the respect that I had to because of the badge but numerous officer suspensions and a whole lot of court cases later it has become quite apparent to everyone that the real problem was the officers who would make a citation and a judge that wouldn't listen to a case before handing out a maximum fine to any of us that were sent to see him.

That is what I eluded to earlier... How come the Judges are siding with the cops all the time? Is it because the cops have guns and you, your family and the judges don't?

Which happened with anything that they could pin on us including a town 10:00 curfew that stated we could not be idle or loiter on the streets but when an officer decided that meant you can't be on the streets at all that is what the judge agreed it meant.

Let me help you out here... This is not really the LEGAL definition if a curfew... This is from dictionary.com:
A Curfew is:
1. an order establishing a specific time in the evening after which certain regulations apply, esp. that no civilians or other specified group of unauthorized persons may be outdoors or that places of public assembly must be closed.
2. a regulation requiring a person to be home at a certain prescribed time, as imposed by a parent on a child.

Don't think that I have it out for law enforcement,

Every person who gets a ticket, and at least for a short time, holds a grudge... Maybe you're the exception.

I know that there are a lot of men and women on the force who are good people, I just also know that the position of power is particularly appealing to the pricks who feel the need to run around with power to make themselves feel special.

Hmmm... I disagree but for our purposes here it wouldn't make a difference.

Don't get the idea that I am just some punk kid playing the victim

Oh, no... Far from it!

I have had confirmation from police on every side of my town that my town was crooked so I know it can happen and I have seen the worst.

So what are you gonna do about it. It obviously is not gonna stop at this citation! And it's not gonna stop at harassing you. They're gonna keep harassing your family... What are you gonna do about it?

 

[Levicw]

He volunteered the information that he didn't lock in. I did ask him once he told me that what the law was on the matter when he told me that he wasn't required and I left it at that and was very polite about it. I am not trying to pick the officer apart. The one who wrote this ticket was very courteous and I knew he was just a cop trying to do his job. I just needed to get a second opinion to make sure that he was correctly informed on the matter.

They didn't corroborate openly about this matter, the judge was simply uncaring when it came to mine or anyone else's legal argument. Which I understand led to his removal (my facts could be wrong on the matter it was after I moved away). I have dealt with a few judges in my time and don't feel this way about any judge but him.

It is a different judge. For you to truly understand the circumstances surrounding this you would have to understand, the judge was simply making sure that every ticket stuck that came in (prosecuting from the bench), The point that I was getting at was that there were ONLY two religions in this town and they both sprung from the same philosophy but were bitter about it because they both believed that they were the one true and it was fresh enough that it isn't something like the catholics and the protestants, If a family member changed sides they were likely going to be required to cut ties with everyone they left behind.

Dictionary.com be damned I found the town code that described their limits and definitions of curfew if you wish to look it up it would be in the Colorado City town charter I believe, it has been far too long since I have looked it up.

I have nothing against the officer who wrote the ticket as I stated before I don't need to be told i shouldn't have been speeding, I know that. I just want to find any way to soften the blow. AZ is notoriously tough with their fines.

What I am going to do about it is nothing, that is in the past, the officers that were the biggest problem have been removed and I have moved out of that town. I wasn't stating that to say that all officers are this way I was just trying to set a background for why I feel the need to check my facts.

Now that we have tied up all the tangents lets get back to the actual reason I bothered signing up to this site and posting a question. If you have any more insight into what I can do from here (and don't say quit speeding we already know and it will just make you sound like a dick) I would love to hear it. Otherwise please don't try and make an argument out of everything I say, I am sure you are a very smart person and everyone loves you for it but I didn't sign on to bask in the glorious glow of your argumentative with, I signed on here to simply check facts. It seems that you have made it your personal mission to engage everyone you talk to in a verbal joust. I am not really looking for that. If you are a cop or for any other reason feel like you should take what I have said personally understand that it isn't about you, we all love you, you are among friends.

 

[The Occultist]

I am being charged with excessive speed which is a criminal violation. does this change the nature of the court proceedings in any way?

Can you please provide a statute number? It should be written somewhere on your citation.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Dictionary.com be damned I found the town code that described their limits and definitions of curfew if you wish to look it up it would be in the Colorado City town charter I believe, it has been far too long since I have looked it up.

What would that prove? And no I’m not looking it up… You make a claim, you have to offer a showing of proof. Not me! But it’s pointless now… It’s not gonna change or prove anything!

I have nothing against the officer who wrote the ticket

Oh, OK, I just misunderstood your comment as to whether he is “another cop playing God” into a bitter comment towards his actions which would suggest that you’re holding a grudge towards him.

as I stated before I don't need to be told i shouldn't have been speeding

I never told you “you shouldn’t be speeding”!

I just want to find any way to soften the blow. AZ is notoriously tough with their fines.

Did you know that before you got caught? I only ask because a reasonable person who knows that would conclude “hey, maybe I shouldn’t be speeding” where as you didn’t!
Maybe you SHOULD let people tell you “you shouldn’t be speeding”.

What I am going to do about it is nothing, that is in the past, the officers that were the biggest problem have been removed

So the bad judge has been removed from the bench, the bad officers who played God and harassed you and your family because of religious differences were all suspended and you were just checking to make sure that this cop wasn’t gonna start the whole process again…. Gotcha!!!

I was just trying to set a background for why I feel the need to check my facts.

Well, your so called “facts” turned out to be not so factual…

lets get back to the actual reason I bothered signing up to this site and posting a question

BOTHERED signing in?
Well, thank you so very much for BOTHERING to come on here and ask a question but also for posting such entertaining & imaginative responses. We do appreciate the fact that you BOTHERED signing in…
Moving along.. Your only question in your first post was “Is he right about this or is it just another case of an officer playing God and making up laws as he goes’. And our discussion went along from there… Just because you now realize your whole “two different religions that were the same… but different/cop gone bad & the judge who doesn’t care” story is sounding more like a comic strip than real life, you shouldn’t start complaining.

If you have any more insight into what I can do from here (and don't say quit speeding we already know and it will just make you sound like a dick.

Actually, even if you stopped speeding now, that would not help you with your previous citation. If you didn’t know that then you’re an idiot! But I’m ALMOST sure you’re not!

Otherwise please don't try and make an argument out of everything I say

Oops, I think its too late! This should have been your first line! But wait.. I am not trying to make an argument out of everything you say, I’m just calling you on what to me seems like it might be a bunch of bull.

I am sure you are a very smart person

Well, that makes you an observant person. I will say that it really doesn’t take much for someone to realize that.

and everyone loves you for it

Actually, I have more than just “smart” to offer… And different people love me for different reasons… One of them being that I don’t like to brag!!!

I didn't sign on to bask in the glorious glow of your argumentative with

Huh??? Wanna re-write that?
Never mind, I think I know what you mean. And you’re free not to want “to bask in the glorious glow of my argumentative with”… it’s a free country and… it is also a FREE ADVICE web site… (I hope you get the humor there).

It seems that you have made it your personal mission to engage everyone you talk to in a verbal joust

Maybe I have… but only with those who choose to joust back!

I am not really looking for that

You say that after too long boring posts where you showed more of your imagination than… Well, skip that!

If you are a cop .

I’m taking back that “observant” comment I made about you.
You blew it!

any other reason feel like you should take what I have said personally

Wrong again!

we all love you, you are among friends.

Alright… Put down the pipe and snap back into reality…

Hey, good luck... And slow down... You really shouldn't be speeding!!!

 

[Levicw]

Again I am just dazzled, you have found a way to make yourself feel big by picking on some kid who I happen to know isn't too bright. Now if you could just use that talent for good instead of trying to beat a dead horse. If you truly wanted to know about the code I could look it up but my paraphrase of it should suffice for a description of a past offense that I have no interest in rehashing but simply reviewed because you asked.

You did attach the bitterness, that wasn't said with any bitterness just with some color to it. I haven't called him anything.

Now Occultists you seem like you actually want to help which is refreshing the statute is 28-701.02A3

And from the legal counsel that I have received outside of this forum this being a criminal offense rather than a civil offense changes the rules so far as an officer guessing my speed. I don't know much more than that about it but elaboration will be appreciated.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

Again I am just dazzled.

You must be easily impressed.. None of what I did took special effort… being a smart azz comes easily to me…

you have found a way to make yourself feel big

How the heck do you know how I feel???

by picking on some kid who I happen to know isn't too bright.

The kid might not be too bright… But he decided to come on here and “joust” with me…

Now if you could just use that talent for good instead of trying to beat a dead horse.

I make my own decisions… Especially when it comes to where how and for what I spend my time. Just thought I’d let you know that just so that you don’t waste any more of your time or limited mental resources trying to think up stuff for me to do.

If you truly wanted to know about the code I could look it up but my paraphrase of it should suffice for a description of a past offense that I have no interest in rehashing but simply reviewed because you asked.

You know what? I started to look up Colorado and as I did, I came across a web page that told a story that was similar to yours except it was many years ago…

You did attach the bitterness, that wasn't said with any bitterness just with some color to it.

OK, that’s not funny… No matter how you say it or describe it, when you make a statement with some color to it or even if you decide to change its flavor, about an officer who was only doing his job, and only because you happen to be the one who got caught, that, by any definition is bitterness.

I haven't called him anything.

I disagree… You indirectly called him a liar!

That's it????

You give up already???

 

[The Occultist]

the statute is 28-701.02A3

Yep, definitely looking at a criminal violation here (class 3 misdemeanor), so this is no cakewalk. Your specific charge is for exceeding 85mph, which means it doesn't matter at all what the actual speed limit is since it is NEVER legal in AZ to exceed 85 mph.

And from the legal counsel that I have received outside of this forum this being a criminal offense rather than a civil offense changes the rules so far as an officer guessing my speed. I don't know much more than that about it but elaboration will be appreciated.

Can you define "legal counsel" in the context in which you've used it? If you're not referring to an actual attorney that has passed AZ's bar, then I'd say ignore the advice you're getting from them. I will not claim to be any better than them (and I'm not), but I've seen too many people lose their case trying to argue against the officer's expert, visual observation.

Due to the nature of the charge, I highly recommend going to court with an attorney. A local attorney knows best what the courts want to hear, and as such present the highest potential for yielding the most favorable results. Many attorneys will offer free/cheap consultations, so you should take advantage of this and sit down with a couple to see what insight they may have to offer.

 

[Levicw]

I_Got_Banned: For God's sake let it go! What do I need to tell you to make you feel like you won so you will piss off and leave the posting to someone who adds value to the discussion?!!

Occultist: Yes it was an Arizona attorney who gave me that advice but I was a little bit skeptical about it as I know that trying to say that the officer's radar and his guess were 5mph off. Would you recommend taking the public defender or is that going to do me any good? Otherwise do you know where I would look to find a lawyer in the area?

 

[The Occultist]

Since this offense will not result in jail time, you do not qualify for a public defender. Find some attorneys to at least sit down with (the best ones will have offices across the street from the courthouse ).

 

[Levicw]

Thank you for your help Occultist. I will definitely talk with an attorney and I have talked with the prosecutor about the ticket and he sounds like he will work with me on reducing the charges.