This is a tough one for me ...

[David Jonathan]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ramsey County, MN

Today my girlfriend received a temp. restraining order against her, from contacting her ex, or their three kids.

he does not have custody of the kids, they live with his parents based on a "family arrangement" His house was foreclosed on he too lives with his parents. He's also unemployed (thought I'd throw that out there, even tho it's not important)

In his allegations he's made up some lies and half truths however there are some truths embedded within his writing.

He DOES NOT have custody of the children.

The hearing is scheduled for 2/23/2009

There is already a no-contact order in place where he cannot contact her based on some domestic violence.

Child services is involved due to some neglect which happened shortly after the DV.

Is there anything she can do right now to get this TRO dropped today?

Is there anything she can do to end this "family arrangement" and have the kids placed back into foster care?

Since this family arrangement has been in place, the family has been abusing the privilege of having the children in their care. They have assumed that they have custody and have made all sorts of crazy rules about visitation, phone calls, etc. etc. These are all things that do not seem healthy for the children.

One note in the TRO that was filed was how He said "she told the kids she was going to take them" ... the actual conversation was that she was looking into getting a townhouse, so they would have their own bedroom, and if they would like that.

The kids always have an awesome time on visits, and are always sad when it's time to leave their mom. They have commented that they want to stay with mom because dad is mean.

That's about all the information I feel comfortable putting out on the internet, I do hope that's enough. If you need anything more detailed, please feel free to PM me any questions.

We are currently digging through our finances to see what we can do about finding legal help locally here, but I am hopeful for an opinion here, while I'm searching for funds. (no, I'm not begging for funding here, or free lawyers)

You guys have always been such a great help, thank you again!

--David Jonathan.

 

[Ohiogal]

WHY would she want HER children in FOSTER CARE?

 

[David Jonathan]

Wow, did you guys even read the post, or is all you took from it that she wanted the kids back in Foster Care?

These people have limited her visits, refused to let her talk to her kids on the phone, have insulted her, defamed her to the kids, and have been showing that they just can't handle the responsibility of having her kids there. It has nothing to do with taking the kids from the father - he was being civil, but he doesn't actually have custody - his parents are watching over the kids through the family arrangement, he happens to live there while he's unemployed, and facing jail time for his prior breach of the no-contact orders (which he had no problem breaking multiple times, but she looked past that so she could talk to her kids)

So it's not about taking the kids from him, it's about having the kids put in a safe environment, the last thing she wants is this guy, and his family filling her kids' heads full of crap.

BTW, Social Services, Child Protection agrees that the kids should most likely be placed elsewhere, and are going to evaluate the situation through interviewing the father, his parents, and all the kids, separate from one another.

Still didn't answer my question, just some nasty responses from you guys, thought y'all were supposed to be professional, you always had been in the past, guess this forum has taken the turn the way all internet forums do ... if you don't know the answer, you gotta get your post count up anyways by insulting the people.

The question is, before the preliminary hearing, can she have the kids removed from the TRO request so she can resume the visitation that she had arranged before?

--David Jonathan.

 

[David Jonathan]

I didn't say you were all too awful, just a select few.

Yes, we're seeking legal counsel, and I have in the past had good luck.

Why would she want them in foster care? Because the house the children are in is no longer a safe environment. No one should insult EITHER parent. She has never spoken negatively of their father to them, nor has any of the negative things she said ever gotten back to the children. They have always been her first priority - sounds odd being as they were taken by the state anyhow, but that's such a long story, it's not worth getting into. Since then, she's made HUGE strides, and has worked WITH Social Services to prove that she can provide a safe and healthy environment for the children. Something they are not receiving at their grandparents home. There is such a huge chance of parental alienation syndrome while they're living there, that it's just not safe for the children.

He's using the children as pawns to get back at her for not wanting to be with him. 8 1/2 years of abuse was enough for her, she finally got out, and then he does this to her. She was fine with them staying there, until all this came about, and now it's just not safe anymore.

--Dave.

 

[>Charlotte<]

As long as there are family members--especially a parent--who is willing and able to take care of the children, DSS is not going to consider foster care a more suitable environment. If they were to consider moving the children from their grandparents' home into foster care, it would have to be for a more compelling reason than "The in-laws insult their mother".

Moving the child into foster care might be what's best for the mother, but you have yet to state one reason it's in the best interest of the children, and that's what matters to the court. That's also what should matter to their mother.

 

[mommyof4]

There is such a huge chance of parental alienation syndrome while they're living there, that it's just not safe for the children.

No, there is NO chance of parental alienation syndrome for obvious reasons. If you don't understand those reasons, do a little reading.

 

[David Jonathan]

This is all a moot point. Social Services does want to remove the children from the current environment due to negative impact it is having on the children. We also retained an attorney who will be assisting.

Normally you guys do a great job of reading the ACTUAL question and answering that, not just throwing out garbage to increase your post counts. Not saying that everyone is doing that ... but if you're offended by that comment, perhaps you're the guilty party.

--Dave.

 

[>Charlotte<]

Normally you guys do a great job of reading the ACTUAL question and answering that, not just throwing out garbage to increase your post counts. Not saying that everyone is doing that ... but if you're offended by that comment, perhaps you're the guilty party.

What you're getting is honest opinions, which was just fine and dandy with you when you were getting opinions that made you happy. If you can't take the good with the bad, you're in the wrong place.

If you want to pay me $250 an hour, I'll tell you anything you want to hear.

 

[cyjeff]

Our motivation is as follows.

In most cases, we help parents to be parents to their children.

Never, not once, in the history of this board has anyone wanted to go to court so that the kids would go to foster care.

I am going to assume two things...

One, that your girlfriend has already been declared an unfit parent,
Two, that the reason the TRO was allowedis because whatever she did to be declared unfit is enough to prove that she is a continuing danger to the children.

how close am I?

 

[>Charlotte<]

how close am I?

According to OP's previous posts, I believe the mother is an alcoholic. Recovering, I hope. So, that probably accounts for a lot of this.

 

[David Jonathan]

it's such a long story, getting into it isn't going to help.

Social Services found that there is mild PAS due to the father telling the children that the mother does not love them or want them anymore.

Social Services feels it's in the best interest of the children to remove them from the household they are currently living in. They feel that a foster home is the best place for them until such time they are satisfied the conditions of the children returning to the mother have been met.

Yes, she's an alcoholic, Yes she's in recovery. Month and a half sober and doing extremely good considering the stress this HRO has caused her.

--David Jonathan

 

[mommyof4]

NO, Social Services did NOT find that there is mild "PAS".

 

[Ohiogal]

NO, Social Services did NOT find that there is mild "PAS".

And if they did then they are incompetent. As PAS is a crock started by a pedophile.


As a side note: I love how asking a question riles up the OP to accusations of posting to increase post counts. Whereas truthfully she should want to try to get the children in HER custody rather than foster care. Real parents usually want their children with THEM. Those using the children as weapons to hurt the other parent ask that the children be placed in foster care.

 

[David Jonathan]

I'm glad you know what the report social services has prepared says. They state in there that "there are grounds to believe that the children are at risk of parental alienation syndrome, while they are already showing mild signs therein"

The Mother wants the kids back, every time she talks to the workers she says it over and over again. She doesn't want to limit the fathers visits with the kids, but being in the care of his parents has proven that they really don't like her. Quotes like "the only thing good that ever came out of you were the kids" or my personal favorite "you're nothing but a worthless piece of S*** ..."

Social Services has stated that the need to be able to see the interaction with the mother and the children, that's not happening while they are in the care of his family. They limit visits to once a week for 3 hours at a time, and it was one phone call each day at 7pm for no more than 10 minutes. I'll tell ya, she was ALWAYS at the phone at 7, every day. As soon as Social Services set it up to where she would get all-day visits on the weekends, working towards having the kids for the whole week over easter/spring break, the father filed this HRO - now she can't even call her kids, or see them. She crys herself to sleep each night. This has just killed her inside. Not to mention, the only thing truthful in his allegations when filing the HRO was her name. He even got the kids' birthdates wrong. He's using the kids to continue to abuse her. Quotes like "if you come back to me, I'll make this all go away" and other such nonsence.

I'm not a social worker, hell, I'm not an attorney either - I've read up a little bit on PAS - so I'll concede that my understanding of it is limited, I can only go on what I've read in the reports.

the ONLY reason she wants the kids in Foster Care is because social services isn't ready to return them full time right now - they still want to see the improvement by using visits, and the "safety network" but while they're with his family, she's not getting any visits.

her #1 goal is to have the kids back as soon as she can. She's trying to work WITH the system to make that happen, unfortunately he found a loophole to prevent her from seeing/contacting the kids with this HRO.

My actually questions were based around the HRO - being - is there anything she can do, other than waiting for the court date at the end of this month to have this thing reversed based on the fact that he is NOT the legal guardian, even tho he stated so on the paperwork.

Everyone thinks this is the dumbest thing he could do, and when it comes down to actual family court, these types of things are going to hurt him in the long run. And believe it or not, she still only wants to share custody with him.

--David Jonathan.

 

[Ohiogal]

I'm glad you know what the report social services has prepared says. They state in there that "there are grounds to believe that the children are at risk of parental alienation syndrome, while they are already showing mild signs therein"

Then the person who wrote the report needs fired quite frankly. PAS was started by a quack who believed that exposing children to the abuser was NORMAL and that being a pedophile was normal.

The Mother wants the kids back, every time she talks to the workers she says it over and over again. She doesn't want to limit the fathers visits with the kids, but being in the care of his parents has proven that they really don't like her. Quotes like "the only thing good that ever came out of you were the kids" or my personal favorite "you're nothing but a worthless piece of S*** ..."

And yet you are here stating she wants them in foster care.

Social Services has stated that the need to be able to see the interaction with the mother and the children, that's not happening while they are in the care of his family. They limit visits to once a week for 3 hours at a time, and it was one phone call each day at 7pm for no more than 10 minutes.

How much visitation do you think she would get if the children are placed in FOSTER CARE? Most likely she would be lucky to get 1 hour a week.

I'll tell ya, she was ALWAYS at the phone at 7, every day. As soon as Social Services set it up to where she would get all-day visits on the weekends, working towards having the kids for the whole week over easter/spring break, the father filed this HRO - now she can't even call her kids, or see them.

And if social services is involved, they could have input into the TRO.

She crys herself to sleep each night. This has just killed her inside. Not to mention, the only thing truthful in his allegations when filing the HRO was her name. He even got the kids' birthdates wrong. He's using the kids to continue to abuse her. Quotes like "if you come back to me, I'll make this all go away" and other such nonsence.

You are missing the point. THE TRO was put in place and there should be hearing to determine whether it contains truth to the allegations.

I'm not a social worker, hell, I'm not an attorney either - I've read up a little bit on PAS - so I'll concede that my understanding of it is limited, I can only go on what I've read in the reports.

I am an attorney and this board's senior members have done a LOT of research on PAS. It is a crock. And any social worker who uses such a thing is full of it. A court would laugh you out of it existence for bringing it up.

the ONLY reason she wants the kids in Foster Care is because social services isn't ready to return them full time right now - they still want to see the improvement by using visits, and the "safety network" but while they're with his family, she's not getting any visits.

So why doesn't she mention family or friends of hers?

her #1 goal is to have the kids back as soon as she can. She's trying to work WITH the system to make that happen, unfortunately he found a loophole to prevent her from seeing/contacting the kids with this HRO.

And did she go the hearing on the TRO?

My actually questions were based around the HRO - being - is there anything she can do, other than waiting for the court date at the end of this month to have this thing reversed based on the fact that he is NOT the legal guardian, even tho he stated so on the paperwork.

Did she file an answer?

Everyone thinks this is the dumbest thing he could do, and when it comes down to actual family court, these types of things are going to hurt him in the long run. And believe it or not, she still only wants to share custody with him.

--David Jonathan.

And believe it or not LEGALLY YOU ARE NOT INVOLVED.