This one is "Unbelievable"

[jjcmontana]

A New angle on this fiasco

I really appreciate everyone's opinions on this matter. Even if I agree with them or question them, it has made me do more personal research than I may otherwise have done, thus making this a very good learning experience. Here is a new situation in this matter, and again, I'd appreciate anyone's advice:

The other driver's insurance has now examined my vehicle, and given me a repair estimate. First off, I feel the estimate was ridiculously low ($837 for a head-on collision?!?!?). The inspection happened on Thursday, but this weekend, I took a closer look at the estimate, AND at my truck, and I've notice MANY things that adjuster did not even mention, such as my shattered turn signal wasn't even listed. I found two obvious bends in the framework which are clearly visible without having to even delve in to the damage (my chassis is literally sticking out of the plastic valance panel below the bumper).

Am I within my right to go back to them and point out this damage and request them to make appropriate adjustments to their estimate? Secondly, they quoted all repairs with "recycled" parts or parts that are not original. I want only genuine parts used, and so I am going to get a quote from the dealer's body shop, as I have my choice of repair facility. My vehicle's value is a little under $4000 now (1996 4x4 toyota tacoma). If the Toyota body shop comes back with a much higher estimate, at what point do I have the ability to request the vehicle totaled? I don't want to be stuck with a $1000 bill for tear down, then have them say the repairs are going to be closer to $3000. Then what happens? Do they go ahead and total the truck, give me a check for $4000, but I still have to pay the body shop the $1000 tear-down bill, so essentially I only get $3000? How does this work? I know the damages are CLEARLY more than $837... this was a head-on, for crying out loud. I have hired an attorney because of the other driver's initial false statement. Should I ask my attorney to make the request for totaling the vehicle or requesting a higher property damage amount? All help is appreciated!

Jason Collins

 

[ecmst12]

1. If you want original parts, YOU pay the difference. The insurance company is only responsible to cover a reasonable repair cost - dealer labor rates and OEM parts are beyond reasonable cost. Your own insurance company would tell you the same thing if they were paying for your repair instead of the other driver's insurance.

2. When an appraiser looks at your car, he is appraising the visible damage only. Once you put the car in a shop, then you give the shop a copy of the estimate, and if there is additional damage discovered as they begin the repaid, THEY call the appraiser to come out for a second inspection.

 

[jjcmontana]

1. If you want original parts, YOU pay the difference. The insurance company is only responsible to cover a reasonable repair cost - dealer labor rates and OEM parts are beyond reasonable cost. Your own insurance company would tell you the same thing if they were paying for your repair instead of the other driver's insurance.

2. When an appraiser looks at your car, he is appraising the visible damage only. Once you put the car in a shop, then you give the shop a copy of the estimate, and if there is additional damage discovered as they begin the repaid, THEY call the appraiser to come out for a second inspection.

thanks for the reply. In response to #1... Since I have my choice of facility in California, couldn't I choose the toyota dealer, since they do body reairs? Wouldn't they, by default, only use genuine parts? I feel third-party parts are second rate, and thus, does not bring the vehicle back to it's preaccident condition.

and #2, since the missed damge IS visible damage, and I feel he just wanted to get out of the hot sun, rather than do a thorough job, couldn't I request a second examination, perhaps by his supervisor? As any other body shop I go to is, of course, only going to give an initial quote based on what THEY see as visible, and something like the turn signal, is about as visible as it gets.

Thanks for the response!

 

[ecmst12]

You can choose the shop, but they are going to pay based on THEIR estimate. If you want to go to a shop that's going to use more expensive parts and charge twice as much for labor, YOU pay the difference. If you don't want to pay anything out of pocket, you take the estimate around to a couple of local shops until you find one that will accept the rates on the estimate. Additional damage, LIKE I SAID, needs to be re-inspected after the car is in the shop, after the teardown has begun, so the appraiser can see the extra damage.

I tell this to people all day at work about 10 times a day, I'm not going to repeat myself again here. If you didn't understand something, read it again.

Your vehicle is 11 years old. Aftermarket parts will not only put your vehicle back to pre-accident condition, but probably BETTER then pre-accident condition. You need to adjust your expectations.

 

[jjcmontana]

You can choose the shop, but they are going to pay based on THEIR estimate. If you want to go to a shop that's going to use more expensive parts and charge twice as much for labor, YOU pay the difference. If you don't want to pay anything out of pocket, you take the estimate around to a couple of local shops until you find one that will accept the rates on the estimate. Additional damage, LIKE I SAID, needs to be re-inspected after the car is in the shop, after the teardown has begun, so the appraiser can see the extra damage.

I tell this to people all day at work about 10 times a day, I'm not going to repeat myself again here. If you didn't understand something, read it again.

Your vehicle is 11 years old. Aftermarket parts will not only put your vehicle back to pre-accident condition, but probably BETTER then pre-accident condition. You need to adjust your expectations.

Again, thanks for the reply. However, I'd like to point out, I can say the sky is green to 100 people an hour, it doesn't make it so. I'm not an idiot here, on the contrary, I'm exceptionally intelligent. Where my problem lies is not in the actual dollar amount of the repairs they estimated, while I still feel they are somewhat low, it is in the obvious damages that are plainly visible from even 25 feet away that they completely missed on their quote. Instead of looking at this from the aspect of "I want more", which legally, holds no water; I'd rather look at this from the stance of "At what point are they proving negligence in their job?" The way the insurance companies operate and have written their policies, I should be provided with a good faith estimate. I can not find it to be of good faith when obvious over sights occurred. It just took one oversight and a bridge collapses, one oversight, and a train derails. Granted, this is far from that magnitude, but there comes a level of expectation when this is someone's job. My reason for all this, is that I'd much rather utilize their payment toward another vehicle. I'm absolutely not being greedy, I assure you. I simply want compensation for the damages that present themselves.

 

[JustAPal00]

EC is right! On an 11 year old car they do not need to use genuine parts!!!!

 

[ecmst12]

Even on a new car they are not required to use genuine parts for everything.

If you want the guy to look at the car again, he will probably come out, call him. His number will be on the estimate. But he's not going to be able to evaluate any mechanical damage until the teardown has begun. At NO point does that become negligent.

 

[xylene]

Sooo ... you would advocate someone complain of pain or injury even when they are not aware of any? That COULD be criminal.

- Carl

I would advocate, that barring fire or some other immediate danger (beyond taxpayer inconvenience) that a motorist in a head on collision remain in their vehicle and wait for responders.

Had the poster in this situations regard been on their health, instead of a misguided notion arising from clear the fender benders policy, then they easily might be better off.

 

[GulfBreeze]

head on accident and cars were barely able to drive away and you didn't call the police to get a report...too bad. you made the mistake and let them leave without a report. in most states, a accident doesn't have to be reported if minor damage..but from what you mentioned...it wasn't minor.

 

[GulfBreeze]

as for the repairs...here is an example of what goes into a claim for repair parts:

IF QUALITY REPLACEMENT PART (QRP) APPEARS ON THIS ESTIMATE, IT INDICATES THAT
THIS ESTIMATE HAS BEEN PREPARED BASED ON THE USE OF ONE OR MORE CRASH PARTS
SUPPLIED BY A SOURCE OTHER THAN THE MANUFACTURER OF YOUR MOTOR VEHICLE.
WARRANTIES, IF ANY, APPLICABLE TO THESE REPLACEMENT CRASH PARTS ARE PROVIDED
BY THE PARTS MANUFACTURER OR DISTRIBUTOR RATHER THAN BY THE MANYFACTURER OF
YOUR VEHICLE. *** IN
ADDITION TO ANY SUCH WARRANTIES, GEICO PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING
**** OWNER LIMITED WARRANTY****
WE WARRANT THAT ALLL QUALITY REPLACEMENT BODY PARTS (PARTS NOT MANUFACTURED BY
THE MANUFACTURER) IDENTIFIED ON YOUR ESTIMATE, ARE FREE OF DEFECTS IN MATERIAL
AND WORKMANSHIP AND MEET GENERALLY ACCEPTED INDUSTRY STANDARDS .THIS PARTS AND
LABOR WARRANTY WILL BE IN EFFECT FOR AS LONG AS YOU OWN THE VEHICLE DESCRIBED
IN THE ESTIMATE. THIS WARRANTY COVERS COST OF THE PART, LABOR TO INSTALL, AND
INCIDENTALS SUCH AS PAINT AND MATERIALS AND IS SPECIFICALLY LIMITED TO THOSE
ITEMS. THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER LOSS OR DAMAGE THAT IS UNRELATED TO
DEFECTS IN THE QUALITY REPLACEMENT PARTS. THIS IS NOT TRANSFERABLE IF ANY
QUALTY REPLACEMENT PARTS ARE DEFECTIVE IN EITHER MATERIAL OR WORKMANSHIP,
CONTACT YOUR GEICO REPRESENTATIVE.

ESTIMATE BASED ON MOTOR CRASH ESTIMATING GUIDE. UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED ALL
ITEMS ARE DERIVED FROM THE GUIDE EEN9710 DATABASE DATE 05/2007, CCC DATA DATE
05/2007, AND THE PARTS SELECTED ARE OEM-PARTS MANUFACTURED BY THE VEHICLES
ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER. OEM PARTS ARE AVAILABLE AT OE/VEHICLE
DEALERSHIPS. OPT OEM (OPTIONAL OEM) OR ALT OEM (ALTERNATIVE OEM) PARTS ARE
OEM PARTS THAT MAY BE PROVIDED BY OR THROUGH ALTERNATE SOURCES OTHER THAN THE
OEM VEHICLE DEALERSHIPS. OPT OEM OR ALT OEM PARTS MAY REFLECT SOME SPECIFIC,
SPECIAL, OR UNIQUE PRICING OR DISCOUNT. OPT OEM OR ALT OEM PARTS MAY INCLUDE
“BLEMISHED” PARTS PROVIDED BY OEM'S THROUGH OEM VEHICLE DEALERSHIPS. ASTERISK
(*) OR DOUBLE ASTERISK (**) INDICATES THAT THE PARTS AND/OR LABOR INFORMATION
PROVIDED BY MOTOR MAY HAVE BEEN MODIFIED OR MAY HAVE COME FROM AN ALTERNATE
DATA SOURCE. TILDE SIGN (~) ITEMS INDICATE MOTOR NOT-INCLUDED LABOR
OPERATIONS. NON-ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER AFTERMARKET PARTS ARE
DESCRIBED AS AM, QUAL REPL PARTS OR COMP REPL PARTS WHICH STANDS FOR
COMPETITIVE REPLACEMENT PARTS. USED PARTS ARE DESCRIBED AS LKQ, QUAL RECY
PARTS, RCY, OR USED. RECONDITIONED PARTS ARE DESCRIBED AS RECOND. RECORED
PARTS ARE DESCRIBED AS RECORE. NAGS PART NUMBERS AND BENCHMARK PRICES ARE
PROVIDED BY NATIONAL AUTO GLASS SPECIFICATIONS. LABOR OPERATION TIMES LISTED
ON THE LINE WITH THE NAGS INFORMATION ARE MOTOR SUGGESTED LABOR OPERATION
TIMES. NAGS LABOR OPERATION TIMES ARE NOT INCLUDED. POUND SIGN (#) ITEMS
INDICATE MANUAL ENTRIES. SOME 2006 VEHICLES CONTAIN MINOR CHANGES FROM THE
PREVIOUS YEAR. FOR THOSE VEHICLES, PRIOR TO RECEIVING UPDATED DATA FROM THE
VEHICLE MANUFACTURER, LABOR AND PARTS DATA FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR MAY BE USED.
THE PATHWAYS ESTIMATOR HAS A COMPLETE LIST OF APPLICABLE VEHICLES. PARTS
NUMBERS AND PRICES SHOULD BE CONFIRMED WITH THE LOCAL DEALERSHIP.

 

[CdwJava]

I would advocate, that barring fire or some other immediate danger (beyond taxpayer inconvenience) that a motorist in a head on collision remain in their vehicle and wait for responders.

Had the poster in this situations regard been on their health, instead of a misguided notion arising from clear the fender benders policy, then they easily might be better off.

Sure - anyone can call. But all because the officers show does NOT mean they will take a report. Collision reporting is largely a policy issue - few crashes require us to take a report. Many large agencies do not respond to or take reports of fender benders because of the huge amount of time involved for what is, effectively, a civil matter and will never involve the police or the courts. A simple collision report will take an experienced officer about an hour NOT counting his or her time at the scene of the collision. For something that is not a police matter that's a lot of time to spend putting info down on paper for the insurance companies.

- Carl

 

[CdwJava]

head on accident and cars were barely able to drive away and you didn't call the police to get a report...too bad. you deserve the problems you are getting now. you made the mistake and let them leave without a report. in most states, a accident doesn't have to be reported if minor damage..but from what you mentioned...it wasn't minor.

However, in CA "minor" vs. "major" is not the deciding factor - injury or prosecution is.

My agency tends to take many non-injury collisions on the public roadway as we have the luxury of time to do so. If it happens in a parking lot, however, we tend not to as long as all parties have their paperwork. Especially since on private property we generally cannot assign fault.

- Carl

 

[jjcmontana]

Sense and Sensibility

I understand that a head-on collision usually results in some of the most massive damages, outside of roll-over and fire. This luckily, was not the case here. I had enough time to slam on the brakes, and the impact was not at full speed. Were we lucky to be able to drive away? you bet! How many other people can do that from this type of collision? Also, in our favor was that it was his driver side front into my driver side front, essentially leaving the passenger side intact. In addition, yes, my truck is 11 years old. Thankfully, Steel was still widely used back then in trucks, and his 2003 Plastic Honda Accord sustained far more damage. Additionally, mine is a 4x4, and as such, sits high enough to avoid impacting much on low front ends. As an example, my headlight did not even break, while his disintegrated. It was just one of those things where physics, luck, and the powers that be avoided making this a severe accident where the vehicles had to be towed.

Yes, my lesson is learned, but to the person who said "I deserve what I get?!?!?" I hope your vile remark leaves a bad taste in your mouth. No one "deserves" to be victimized by the system, especially when they're entirely innocent, such as I am. I may have made a bad decision in not calling police, not calling an ambulance, and having faith in mankind's honesty; however, no good person who has become a victim simply by following written laws "deserves" what they get. You are obviously one of those types of attorneys that give the profession a bad name. That is the equivalent of saying "she deserved to be raped because she walked down the alley to her parked car". Or how about "The bank deserved to be robbed because the security guard took his lunch break, as allowed him by law".

Everyone has provided excellent feedback on this matter, and I offer my many thanks for the help. As I previously stated, this has been a learning experience, and hopefully in the future perfect world, this whole thing could be avoided by what I've learned here. Many thanks to you all (except the guy saying I deserved this).