Update and response to email

[sipa]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

I wanted to drop in and let you know how the "negotation in a civil manner is going"

Hubby sent email to ex advising that he will entertain her proposal and see what they can conclude now to be signed off on by judge and if matters are left on the table they would need to proceed through the courts to rectify them.

He also advised her that he is very hesitant to do this as the past indicates their inability to negotitate in a positive way, as he has been emailing her with no response and she will not answer her phone. That communication in reference to this move has been done through the children. This is what was received back.

The minutia of past incivilities is not relevant topic for this topic of discussion.

The future happiness and well being of S and M however is the matter at hand.

I'm not sure what your perspective is with regard to their moving with me to North Carolina but they have both expressed their intent to move after their school year has commenced.

I am moving and intend do so with both of our daughters with a mutual agreement in place to secure your presence in their lives.

As previously stated, I will not go to court repeatedly as I have been forced to in the past.

In fact S has that right at this time to chose in which household she choses to reside permanently and I am certain they both have the right to be heard by a judge or representative of the court.
I will not allow them to be separated so I will let you decide how to proceed.
I urge you on their behalf to listen to what they think and how they feel before you decide.

I will work diligently on the draft of the preliminary agreement but can make no promises for finality and agreement by both parties by your proposed April 30th deadline.

Hopefully you will allow enough time to proceed with this in the thoughtful and open minded manner in which you stated in your response. Such negotiation will require much thought and deliberation by all parties involved.

Filing with the court will need to be done as parties in agreement or simply not at all.

Best Regards,
A

Just wanted to let you all know he will be calling an attorney today to handle this. There goes the open credit we have...but oh well it will reduce the stress!

It is my impression as well as his that the bolded portion of the email indicates that if she does not agree to his proposal that she is leaving with out going to court.

 

[sipa]

Before you ask:
They have been to court three times in 2001
Once for a divorce
Once for visitation
And once because he was ordered to pay her for daycare, and then the kids were kicked out of day care because he was paying her by check (thank god he had his canceled checks and did not pay her cash) and she did not pay the 1800.00 day care bill. So once to determine he would be direct pay to facility.

And S that she refers to being old enough to make her own choice on place to live is 13

 

[wileybunch]

My honest opinion?

Dad set the wrong tone for this attempt to resolve this outside of court. JUST STICK TO THE PATH. The path is resolving this outside of court. The means is sending proposals back/forth. Dad could have easily said he'd like to try to do this outside of court and would see what they could come up with in the next X weeks (which is the deadline in HIS mind that he would then proceed to court) without shoving the kind of language he chose in Mom's face.

Mom's opening response of "The minutia of past incivilities is not relevant topic for this topic of discussion" was dead on.

And, it's no wonder that Mom's response is somewhat defensive given how Dad approached her.

Dad needs to stop trying to ENGAGE her or PICK at anything. If she is wrong about some things, he can state that without picking. Ultimately, if they don't see eye to eye, they won't be able to convince each other, it will go to court.

Dad can let Mom know that it's not appropriate to ask the kids who they want to live with and that he needs to ask her not to involve the kids in this that ultimately if it can't be decided, it's going to be decided in court and the children don't go to court.

But, if Dad has no problem with Mom moving WITH the kids, just IGNORE that part of the communication altogether because it doesn't matter.

 

[sipa]

Thanks Wiley this was just an FYI I know you guys become involved in peoples lives and wonder of the outcome.

I agree, but I do understand why he wrote what he wrote.

However if a poster jumped on here and said "this is what I sent to my ex" I can gauretnee she would have gotten slammed.

She tends to dictate what she will do and not do, she also clearly indicates she is leaving with them regardless and if they can't agree out side of court then basically- oh well.

He got the response I EXPECTED, what he expected who knows.

 

[wileybunch]

Thanks Wiley this was just an FYI I know you guys become involved in peoples lives and wonder of the outcome.

I agree, but I do understand why he wrote what he wrote.

However if a poster jumped on here and said "this is what I sent to my ex" I can gauretnee she would have gotten slammed.

She tends to dictate what she will do and not do, she also clearly indicates she is leaving with them regardless and if they can't agree out side of court then basically- oh well.

He got the response I EXPECTED, what he expected who knows.

Yes, she likely would get spanked. Often BOTH sides are "wrong" in how they handle things. Often it only takes ONE to do things right for the entire dynamics to shift. It does not always take BOTH parents behaving perfectly to have better outcomes. And, as far as understanding why he wrote that, your DH's ex is child's play compared to my DH's ex and I would have still been critical of him if he had parlayed the communication like your DH did.

So whatever, take it for what it's worth, if your DH knows the strength of his case and has self confidence, his actions with her would be different.

P.S. You didn't answer if your DH is opposed to the move. If he is, he needs to make that undeniably clear if he hasn't already.

 

[StampGirl]

Personally, I would have just said "ok" to her attitude of moving with the kids no matter what. Then ran to the courthouse to file the proper paperwork.

Then we don't have this he said she said nonscense. Seriously!

For example, my ex was picking up the kids on his friday's after school. Fine until the youngest started Kindergarten. She got off at noon the others at 2pm. He didn't want to drive the extra trip. Fine so you go to the park or to lunch or visit your family etc in the area. Nope. He said "you will make sure the chidlren are available to me at 2pm and I will not pick up the lil one". My response: Ok.

THen I promptly filed the paperwork to enforce that he picks up the kids at school on his Fridays. We see the mediator, she smacks him over the head for wasting our time and its in the order. No muss no fuss.

Honestly our ex's can all say what they want etc. I chose to not engage my ex and he can state his opinion etc. However, if I need something changed in the court order and I know with pretty good certainty it will fly in court, I ask nicely ONCE to change it between us and if he says NOPE, then I just file the paperwork and go on my merry way. No need for this drama.

 

[sipa]

Yes, she likely would get spanked. Often BOTH sides are "wrong" in how they handle things. Often it only takes ONE to do things right for the entire dynamics to shift. It does not always take BOTH parents behaving perfectly to have better outcomes. And, as far as understanding why he wrote that, your DH's ex is child's play compared to my DH's ex and I would have still been critical of him if he had parlayed the communication like your DH did.

So whatever, take it for what it's worth, if your DH knows the strength of his case and has self confidence, his actions with her would be different.

P.S. You didn't answer if your DH is opposed to the move. If he is, he needs to make that undeniably clear if he hasn't already.

My DH is opposed to dealing with her outside of court and has told her numerous times that he will not make agreements for her moving with out it going through the court system. He is not opposed to the move he has advised me that he feels "powerless" to stop her.

Over the years there have been too many times that visitation has been held, the kids relay that they do not have to come because she says so, ect.

There is a large trust issue here, he wants to make sure that he gets his visitation and such as speciied by a court order or chances are she will decide when and if they can come visit sorta like she does now.

These issues should have been addressed years ago but he failed to do so.

Regardless these two have picked at each other for YEARS.

I think this is clear indication she plans to do what she wants to do regardless of what he agree's to or doesn't it simply needs to go to court and be handled by an attorney otherwise the next 2 months prior to her move the anger on her side towards DH will be directed to the kids, visitation will be held back ect.

 

[summerdawn]

Is this move fairly certain, or just being tossed around? Does ex have a history of saying she is moving?

I only ask because my mother has guardianship of my daughter and every year or so she decides she's moving. The first couple of times she said it I was really alarmed, but now I take it with a grain of salt unless I see evidence that she may in fact be moving. If mom is just tossing it around she might be saying it to get a reaction from dad. Don't give it to her.

 

[wileybunch]

[/B]

My DH is opposed to dealing with her outside of court and has told her numerous times that he will not make agreements for her moving with out it going through the court system. He is not opposed to the move he has advised me that he feels "powerless" to stop her.

Over the years there have been too many times that visitation has been held, the kids relay that they do not have to come because she says so, ect.

There is a large trust issue here, he wants to make sure that he gets his visitation and such as speciied by a court order or chances are she will decide when and if they can come visit sorta like she does now.

These issues should have been addressed years ago but he failed to do so.

Regardless these two have picked at each other for YEARS.

I think this is clear indication she plans to do what she wants to do regardless of what he agree's to or doesn't it simply needs to go to court and be handled by an attorney otherwise the next 2 months prior to her move the anger on her side towards DH will be directed to the kids, visitation will be held back ect.

She knows she can walk on him and does. He needs to officially object to the move to HER because so far she's notified him and he hasn't objected. And, he should file in court to stop the move. And, if she withholds visitation in retaliation -- he needs to file a motion to show cause for contempt and a motion to modify custody so that he has primary physical custody with her having visitation.

 

[sipa]

Is this move fairly certain, or just being tossed around? Does ex have a history of saying she is moving?

I only ask because my mother has guardianship of my daughter and every year or so she decides she's moving. The first couple of times she said it I was really alarmed, but now I take it with a grain of salt unless I see evidence that she may in fact be moving. If mom is just tossing it around she might be saying it to get a reaction from dad. Don't give it to her.

It's certain he was advised by her in December, and has taken 8 trips since them to North Carolina, either trumping over his parenting time and taking the kids or emailing him and saying: I am leaving you need to take the kids.

We have been told (with out proding ) about the house that is rented, the job that she has, where she will work.

This week he received an email telling him she is leaving on xyz date for training and will be back xyz date and you will need to keep the kids.

I don't mind personally having the kids, and this is their custody issue. It does burn me her telling him when and what he will do. I am married to him and don't even do that!

I guess that is why they are ex's huh?

 

[summerdawn]

It's certain he was advised by her in December, and has taken 8 trips since them to North Carolina, either trumping over his parenting time and taking the kids or emailing him and saying: I am leaving you need to take the kids.

We have been told (with out proding ) about the house that is rented, the job that she has, where she will work.

This week he received an email telling him she is leaving on xyz date for training and will be back xyz date and you will need to keep the kids.

I don't mind personally having the kids, and this is their custody issue. It does burn me her telling him when and what he will do. I am married to him and don't even do that!

I guess that is why they are ex's huh?

Oh, heck NO. Did he file contempt when his visitation time was trumped by fun time in NC?

 

[sipa]

Nope he has been trumped by NC 4 times this year.

He was trumped by California last year when he got an email at 4:28 am stating:

I have taken the kids out of school for a week (even after he advised her he did not agree) and they are both with me on the way to Califonia for the week.

We will return xyz date here is our flight schedule.

His visitation is Wed-Sat so it trumped right through it.

When he asked for make up time she advised he could do it anytime the kids were off school and not on school days.

There is ALOT of history here

 

[summerdawn]

Nope he has been trumped by NC 4 times this year.

He was trumped by California last year when he got an email at 4:28 am stating:

I have taken the kids out of school for a week (even after he advised her he did not agree) and they are both with me on the way to Califonia for the week.

We will return xyz date here is our flight schedule.

His visitation is Wed-Sat so it trumped right through it.

When he asked for make up time she advised he could do it anytime the kids were off school and not on school days.

There is ALOT of history here

Has dad shown up for his visitation and called the police to let them know the children were unavailable? Has he been keeping records of the times the children were made unavailable? This history should be written down in a log. Mine helped significantly when I went to court.

 

[sipa]

Has dad shown up for his visitation and called the police to let them know the children were unavailable? Has he been keeping records of the times the children were made unavailable? This history should be written down in a log. Mine helped significantly when I went to court.

He has some records and last year he took the cops a couple of times, he also has a initial harrassment order against her for non stop phone calls to the house.

He has always tried to take the high road.

It is just not going to work the two of them outside of court too many variables.Way to much hatred.

 

[summerdawn]

He has some records and last year he took the cops a couple of times, he also has a initial harrassment order against her for non stop phone calls to the house.

He has always tried to take the high road.

It is just not going to work the two of them outside of court too many variables.Way to much hatred.

TOTALLY understood. 'Cept in my case it's not so much animosity from dad, as much as from his new 'other half'.