What information is CP required to share?

[wileybunch]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NV
This is a general question, but I am also interested in the answer personally.

What information is a custodial parent required to share with a non-custodial parent that shares legal custody about setting up counseling for child? Is CP only required to ask if NCP will give permission for the counseling or is CP required to share the reasons why CP is seeking counseling for child?

/// End of general questions ///

In DH's case, CP has had ongoing obsessive alienating behavior and recently after CP went through another episode, child (14) expressed to her dad and I that she doesn't want to live anywhere. Expressing anything negative about her mom is a big deal as she risks consequences if her mother knows she's spoken against her. Said she and mom fight "all the time" and she doesn't want to live with Dad because people in our town are "fake" (suppress the smiles for those who have teens ).

So Mom gets a referral from a church leader to the church's counseling services which can be a great thing once it gets going. Mom tried to do it underhanded w/o involving Dad, it was the 14yo that mentioned it to me (I'm sure she had no idea her mom was trying to be secretive about it), but the counseling service put a stop to it when DH contacted them, and canceled child's appointment until they could decide who would best be able to help, they told DH. They are very concerned there is so much animosity coming from mom 10+ years post divorce and seemed to realize what they were dealing with from comments they made to DH on the phone.

Apparently they plan to have Mom and Dad each see separate counselors and child a third which sounds like a great plan, but they haven't called DH back to arrange this yet, this is coming from Mom, so hasn't happened yet (DH has called several times to follow up since canceled appt 1.5 weeks ago, but service hasn't called back yet with the plans). Mom said on Friday that if things weren't worked out by Monday (today), she was going to take DD to another counselor because she didn't want to wait any more and described DD14's emotional state as "fragile". We had just had her for long weekend before that and I would not describe her that way at all. Dad said he would not give that permission and was concerned about Mom's description of 14yo as emotionally fragile and asked for her to share information with him ASAP. Mom said she will not share it with Dad because "you don't want to hear anything about it from me and it would only cause more drama".

How much information is the CP required to share?

For that matter, the NCP knows that DD14 said she hates living with her mother and NCP has not shared that with CP, either, but DH didn't consider that to rise to the level of something that needed to be shared with the other parent.

 

[wileybunch]

Bumping to see if anyone knows the answer on CP's responsibilities.
As a CP, I've walked a fine line between telling NCP what might help him understand how the kids are feeling so he's aware (because they've had issues since he had to be reintroduced and they've continued to struggle with building a relationship) without butting into their relationship and I can imagine if they ever needed to go to counseling over it, I would ask/tell him about what's going on without trying to hurt or offend him.

FWIW, we were with DD14 last night again and she is really happy and settled. When Dad was alone with her, he asked her how she's doing, said he was concerned because Mom said she's not doing so well and she made a face like she was annoyed with her mother's description and said she just has some school and family stress. She's actually very concerned about a friend of hers right now and figuring out how to help her because she doesn't her friend is handling stress very well and she's at a loss how to help her.

 

[Banned_Princess]

Please use this time to list to me what DD DH DHD DML all of those abbreviations mean.


Thanks guys.

 

[Isis1]

Please use this time to list to me what DD DH DHD DML all of those abbreviations mean.


Thanks guys.

DH = dear husband
DD = dear daughter
DML = dear mother in law

i have absolutely NO idea what DHD is.

 

[The_Non-Mom]

No legal advice to give, but just a thought as the SM of an increasingly teenagey 12yo. In our case, SD's mom can be very dramatic (as it sounds like your SD's mom is), and sometimes SD gets caught up in all that drama and gets very dramatic herself. When she is with Dad and I, SD is chilled out because we are chilled out. It's kind of like SD chameleons to her environment which I don't think is unusual for girls of that age.

So all that being said, maybe your SD's mom is seeing slightly more dramatic behavior from your SD than you and her dad are. Combine that with Mom's tendancy to be over-dramatic herself, and you've got the situation you're in.

 

[Banned_Princess]

DH = dear husband
DD = dear daughter
DML = dear mother in law

i have absolutely NO idea what DHD is.

Why is "dear daughter" in DD so common?

(sorry for the topic swerve, but the terms are used, and often, and I'd like to know who started labeling family members "dear" I have been thinking it meant "direct" but that didnt always fit)

 

[CJane]

Why is "dear daughter" in DD so common?

(sorry for the topic swerve, but the terms are used, and often, and I'd like to know who started labeling family members "dear" I have been thinking it meant "direct" but that didnt always fit)

I always think of it as kind of like when people say "I have a beautiful daughter who...." Really? If she was ugly (or not always do "dear") would you care?

This is why I use names. Or Kiddo1, Kiddo2, etc.

My .02.

Wiley? What CP is required to share is outlined in the court order. If it's not, she doesn't have to share jack. If it doesn't say she needs Dad's PERMISSION to seek counseling, etc, she need only TELL him when the appointment is, and EVEN THEN could likely get away with NOT telling him if she could show that it was in the child's best interests to not have Dad "meddling".

 

[Ohiogal]

I always think of it as kind of like when people say "I have a beautiful daughter who...." Really? If she was ugly (or not always do "dear") would you care?

This is why I use names. Or Kiddo1, Kiddo2, etc.

My .02.

Wiley? What CP is required to share is outlined in the court order. If it's not, she doesn't have to share jack. If it doesn't say she needs Dad's PERMISSION to seek counseling, etc, she need only TELL him when the appointment is, and EVEN THEN could likely get away with NOT telling him if she could show that it was in the child's best interests to not have Dad "meddling".

What CJane stated.

 

[doc2b]

I always think of it as kind of like when people say "I have a beautiful daughter who...." Really? If she was ugly (or not always do "dear") would you care?

This is why I use names. Or Kiddo1, Kiddo2, etc.

My .02.

Wiley? What CP is required to share is outlined in the court order. If it's not, she doesn't have to share jack. If it doesn't say she needs Dad's PERMISSION to seek counseling, etc, she need only TELL him when the appointment is, and EVEN THEN could likely get away with NOT telling him if she could show that it was in the child's best interests to not have Dad "meddling".

Not trying to hijack, but I've always been under the impression that joint legal custody requires both parties to agree to treatments, unless one party is specifically given the power to make the decision in the event that they can't come to an agreement? (Or if there's other wording in their order that specifies otherwise). Is that incorrect, then?

 

[wileybunch]

No legal advice to give, but just a thought as the SM of an increasingly teenagey 12yo. In our case, SD's mom can be very dramatic (as it sounds like your SD's mom is), and sometimes SD gets caught up in all that drama and gets very dramatic herself. When she is with Dad and I, SD is chilled out because we are chilled out. It's kind of like SD chameleons to her environment which I don't think is unusual for girls of that age.

So all that being said, maybe your SD's mom is seeing slightly more dramatic behavior from your SD than you and her dad are. Combine that with Mom's tendancy to be over-dramatic herself, and you've got the situation you're in.

This is true in this case. Mom will describe how DD "threw herself on the floor" or "collapsed in the backseat sobbing", things intended to poke at DH that he's traumatizing her. She's also youngest child at home and in our home is seen as a big sister to the younger 2 (since my older two are adults, 14yo DD is the oldest sibling now).

I always think of it as kind of like when people say "I have a beautiful daughter who...." Really? If she was ugly (or not always do "dear") would you care?

This is why I use names. Or Kiddo1, Kiddo2, etc.

My .02.

Wiley? What CP is required to share is outlined in the court order. If it's not, she doesn't have to share jack. If it doesn't say she needs Dad's PERMISSION to seek counseling, etc, she need only TELL him when the appointment is, and EVEN THEN could likely get away with NOT telling him if she could show that it was in the child's best interests to not have Dad "meddling".

OK, thanks. I thought that people here had been advised that they were required to get permission before putting a child into counseling simply because they share legal custody. I cannot recall if the original CO says that permission is needed (I tend to think it does not), but they have two subsequent court orders that specifically have counseling in it and it's for Dad to take kids to a counselor (and the name is specified).

 

[Ohiogal]

Then dad is the one who takes children to counseling with the COUNSELOR specified. It can NOT be anyone that mom picks.

With legal custody the parents can make decisions -- it can be contempt however depending upon how the orders are written.

 

[wileybunch]

Then dad is the one who takes children to counseling with the COUNSELOR specified. It can NOT be anyone that mom picks.

With legal custody the parents can make decisions -- it can be contempt however depending upon how the orders are written.

Mom did not discuss anything with Dad before making arrangements for counseling (except she did say it was with LDS Family Services) and when asked claimed she didn't know where it was or when an appointment would be set, but that was not true. Dad knows something that works for them, but didn't know at what location and it runs out there's only currently one in our metro area and she told him the contact info. DH faxed a letter to LDS Family Services explaining the situation, that he wanted to make sure he was able to talk to the counselor at the start of DD's sessions (an intro/intake sort of session as a parent) and that they knew to involve Dad to the extent that made sense along the way, and the counselor pulled back and canceled DD's appointment because she realized Mom was going behind Dad's back and was concerned that are so many issues still between Mom and Dad when they've been divorced 10+ years. So counseling hasn't started until original counselor can set up counselors for each of them (3) - Mom, Dad, Daughter - with disclosures allowed between them. [I can predict now that Mom will pull out of counseling if she is told anything she doesn't want to hear if anyone wants to wager on this instead of the Super Bowl .]

All that said, normally when a CP wants to put a child into counseling when there's shared legal custody, are they required to share some information on the reason for the counseling? I wanted something tangible on that as like another poster mentioned, it's been stated repeatedly that CP needs to get permission, but I wasn't sure about actual information about the REASON for counseling needing to be shared. FWIW, Mom pulled a similar thing with their oldest DD, when DH tried to get info, she made references along the lines of her being suicidal (she wasn't).

I get CJane's point that parent can claim it would be harmful to child to do so (though Mom would have a large hole to dig out if she claimed that with a judge).

 

[CJane]

Both parents being involved with counseling has less to do with the legalities and more to do with the ethics of treating a child for emotional/psychological issues without involving the household(s).

Is Dad currently taking child to see the specifically named counselor?

 

[cherylsarah01]

Then dad is the one who takes children to counseling with the COUNSELOR specified. It can NOT be anyone that mom picks.

With legal custody the parents can make decisions -- it can be contempt however depending upon how the orders are written.

Can you please clarify for me. When custody order states that both parents have joint legal and that's it can one parent make a big decission without the other and vice versa or do both have to know about the big decission and agree or they just have to let the other know?

Thank you

 

[LdiJ]

Can you please clarify for me. When custody order states that both parents have joint legal and that's it can one parent make a big decission without the other and vice versa or do both have to know about the big decission and agree or they just have to let the other know?

Thank you

OG was referring to the original poster's specific case, and what had been ordered in that case.

In general, joint legal custody means that ordinary, day to day decisions can be made by the parent during their parenting time, but that major decisions need to be made jointly.

So, if a child is sick, either parent can take the child to the doctor on their time, without fear of contempt, as long as they keep the other parent informed. Either parent can make true emergency decisions as well.

However, if the doctor says that the child would benefit from surgery, (non emergency) then the two parents need to decide that jointly.