"Dirty Hands?"

[Ecksunbeam]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

I sued a neighbor for slander, defamation of character and harrassment. 1) Wife called police accusing me of delivering "drugs" to another neighbor. (I delivered medicinal herbs.) 2) The following day she called the police again to have me arrested for "harrassment" accusing me of posting flyers of her criminal child sex offender husband all over the hallways of our apartment complex. I did not do it, and do not know who did.

Their lawyers have answered with a defense of: 1) failure to state a claim of relief, 2) "Dirty hands" ???????????, and 3) claims barred by inappropriate statute of limitations. (I filed with the local district court within two weeks of the incidents.)

I have filed my case pro se but qualify for low-income legal aid. What in the Sam Hill does a "dirty hands" defense mean? I have read a few definitions and all I can think is, "They have GOT to be joking

All advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.What is the name of your state?

 

[JETX]

What in the Sam Hill does a "dirty hands" defense mean?

unclean hands
n. a legal doctrine which is a defense to a complaint, which states that a party who is asking for a judgment cannot have the help of the court if he/she has done anything unethical in relation to the subject of the lawsuit. Thus, if a defendant can show the plaintiff had "unclean hands," the plaintiff's complaint will be dismissed or the plaintiff will be denied judgment. Unclean hands is a common "affirmative defense" pleaded by defendants and must be proved by the defendant.

 

[Ecksunbeam]

"Dirty Hands"

I have read this definition, but what does it MEAN? I have done nothing unethical in filing a law suit against them--it is they who have maliciously and wantonly accused me of a crime I did not commit--with absolutely no evidence or witnesses--because I did not do it! What kind of "dirty hands" evidence does the defendant have to produce in order to prevail on this defense?

 

[JETX]

I have read this definition, but what does it MEAN? I have done nothing unethical in filing a law suit against them--it is they who have maliciously and wantonly accused me of a crime I did not commit--with absolutely no evidence or witnesses--because I did not do it! What kind of "dirty hands" evidence does the defendant have to produce in order to prevail on this defense?

How are we supposed to know what claims they are going to make??
Show up in court (or depose them) and find out what they intend to present.

 

[StickyFingers]

I have read this definition, but what does it MEAN?

Well, since you have read the definition...you know the term is 'unclean hands'. Why do you keep stating 'dirty hands'?

I do not believe there is any simpler explanation for the term than what JETX provided.

I have done nothing unethical in filing a law suit against them--it is they who have maliciously and wantonly accused me of a crime I did not commit--with absolutely no evidence or witnesses--because I did not do it! What kind of "dirty hands" evidence does the defendant have to produce in order to prevail on this defense?

You don't get it. They are not disputing the charge...what they are saying is that you are just as much to blame (if not more) than the neighbor. And it is up to their side to prove it.

Be aware...all your 'dirty laundry' is about to be aired!

And No, you can not claim that they defamed or slandered you just cause they said bad things about you on the stand.

And like JETX said....

How are we supposed to know what claims they are going to make??
Show up in court (or depose them) and find out what they intend to present.

 

[Ecksunbeam]

"Unclean Hands"

Thank you. I have no dirty laundry to be aired so I am not concerned. And several witnesses to testify otherwise about the defendant. Thank you all for your responses. I have now figured out what it means.

 

[tranquility]

The answer to a complaint often needs to include all the possible affirmative defenses or the defendat may lose the right to claim them later. Good attorneys will list anything which might lead to a defense later on. Don't worry so much about those things now, but during the course of the lawsuit you will need to look up and understand each so you can anticipate what they will claim.

The only real one you need to worry about now is the failure to state a claim. This may lead to the filing of a demurer or, after a bit, a summary judgment. Make sure you listed every element for the cause of action in your complaint and your basis for including that element. See the legal aid people. You are going to have big problems in this suit.

 

[You Are Guilty]

If you want to really bust their chops, serve a discovery demand asking them to provide the basis for their allegation(s) of unclean hands. (Here in NY, we call it a Demand for a Bill of Particulars as to Affirmative Defenses, but I think in MI you might have to do it through Interrogatories).

 

[Ecksunbeam]

Unclean Hands

Dear You Are Guilty,

WOW! Thanks! Yes, in Michigan we use interrogatories, but I didn't think I could use them until after the pretrial hearing--in which the defendant apparently hopes to wipe me out with unclean hands evidence from the get-go. (They have no evidence. I did not commit either of the crimes I was accused of.) Someone made a remark about stating my claim. Yes, I need to do an Ammended Complaint. I am having a very difficult time finding legal assistance on a personal injury case. I think I am quite capable of defending myself--able to do case law research, write a brief, etc. It's procedure I am concerned about. Talked to someone today who advised me that lawyers hang out a law libraries and to start hanging out there, too. Anyone done this before? Any luck?

But here is the serious gist of my case: Because of the allegations and public police display made by my former neighbor (now evicted) drug dealers in my apartment building have been led to believe that I am the "snitch" who was constantly calling the police on them--when it was she the whole time--and I feel my life has now been put in danger. They are nnow constantly harrassing me. (Defendant is one of those nosy gossip-monger types always in everybody's business because she has no life of her own.) This has gotten VERY complicated. I've contacted owner of building, police, and neighborhood watch--but the dealers are all still here. I have had a near fatal heart attack, stroke, and mixed connective tissue disease. I am getting all kinds of symptoms from the stress of it. Any advice for "Claims?"

Thank you, again You Are Guilty (although I AM NOT!). I am going to use your ploy--and get to reading and re-reading the Rules of Civil Procedure :--)

Thank you again. At least your response was not sarcastic and one that, perhaps, believes that my hands are CLEAN! Very helpful response.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

I sued a neighbor for slander, defamation of character and harrassment. 1) Wife called police accusing me of delivering "drugs" to another neighbor. (I delivered medicinal herbs.) 2) The following day she called the police again to have me arrested for "harrassment" accusing me of posting flyers of her criminal child sex offender husband all over the hallways of our apartment complex. I did not do it, and do not know who did.

Their lawyers have answered with a defense of: 1) failure to state a claim of relief, 2) "Dirty hands" ???????????, and 3) claims barred by inappropriate statute of limitations. (I filed with the local district court within two weeks of the incidents.)

I have filed my case pro se but qualify for low-income legal aid. What in the Sam Hill does a "dirty hands" defense mean? I have read a few definitions and all I can think is, "They have GOT to be joking

All advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.What is the name of your state?

What were the medicinal herbs? Did you have a busines permit?

 

[Ecksunbeam]

Unclean Hands

The "medicinal herbs" were Ginko Bolboa and Hawthorne Berries offered to a neighbor for her husband's early Alzheimer's Disease. I had recommended them to her earlier in the week during a conversation stating that I had some in my herb supply (I have heart disease, and I am a licensed alternative medical practicioner) if she would like her husband to try them. I left them on her doorstep at midnight--not wanting to disturb her-when my [now former] upstairs neighbor, from her second-story
'perch" called the police reporting that I was delivering "drugs." Regardless of what I was "delivering," or whether I have a "medical license" it is none of my neighbor's business what I am doing or, who I am visiting, or at what time, or why. I was doing nothing illegal abd I am a free agent. She was apparently incensed over the posters hung up all over our apartment complex of her convicted child molester husband, very LOUDLY claiming to police that she "KNOWS" I put them up--because, "She [me] has a computer." So she looked for anything to try to get me arrested. (I am 58 years old and have never as much as gotten a traffic ticket.) I am a former social worker, teacher, and certified therapeutic massage therapist, and also Summa cum Laude college graduate. This woman cannot spell her own screen name. When God made stupid, she threw away the mold on this one! She is extremely intrusive and for the year and a half I have lived in my apartment (downstairs) she has made a career of interferring with my life. I avoided and ignored her and repeatedly made it clear to her that I was not interested in being chummy-chummy. She is also extremely vulga, obscene, and racist in her language and demeanor. Simply not my "type." Period. This was nothing but a malicious payback by her because of my rejection of her. I did not put up the posters of her husband, do not know who did, and I was not delivering "drugs." She had absolutely no cause to call the police and try to have me arrested, no matter her pshychotic state of mind. She has NO "unclean hands" or any other defense.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The "medicinal herbs" were Ginko Bolboa and Hawthorne Berries offered to a neighbor for her husband's early Alzheimer's Disease. I had recommended them to her earlier in the week during a conversation stating that I had some in my herb supply (I have heart disease, and I am a licensed alternative medical practicioner) if she would like her husband to try them. I left them on her doorstep at midnight--not wanting to disturb her-when my [now former] upstairs neighbor, from her second-story
'perch" called the police reporting that I was delivering "drugs." Regardless of what I was "delivering," or whether I have a "medical license" it is none of my neighbor's business what I am doing or, who I am visiting, or at what time, or why. I was doing nothing illegal abd I am a free agent. She was apparently incensed over the posters hung up all over our apartment complex of her convicted child molester husband, very LOUDLY claiming to police that she "KNOWS" I put them up--because, "She [me] has a computer." So she looked for anything to try to get me arrested. (I am 58 years old and have never as much as gotten a traffic ticket.) I am a former social worker, teacher, and certified therapeutic massage therapist, and also Summa cum Laude college graduate. This woman cannot spell her own screen name. When God made stupid, she threw away the mold on this one! She is extremely intrusive and for the year and a half I have lived in my apartment (downstairs) she has made a career of interferring with my life. I avoided and ignored her and repeatedly made it clear to her that I was not interested in being chummy-chummy. She is also extremely vulga, obscene, and racist in her language and demeanor. Simply not my "type." Period. This was nothing but a malicious payback by her because of my rejection of her. I did not put up the posters of her husband, do not know who did, and I was not delivering "drugs." She had absolutely no cause to call the police and try to have me arrested, no matter her pshychotic state of mind. She has NO "unclean hands" or any other defense.

One woman's herbs is another's drugs.
A person can make a police report in good faith, that is not slander you have a different opinion. Why the need to drop off the "herbs" under cover of darkness, I would throw them out if someone left them on my door step. If you are providing herbs it is possible that you are practicing medicine without a license. Many herbs can interfer or interact with a patient's prescribed Rx, so it would appear that you in fact have unclean hands.

 

[tranquility]

I don't think the equitable doctorine of unclean hands would apply for two reasons. First, although more facts would be needed (and knowledge of what the law is in that jurisdiction) the OP stated she was a licenses alternative medicine practitioner. Would providing medicinal herbs be illegal or wrong? Out here, stores sell that stuff.

Second, and more importantly, unclean hands must be directly related to the suit. While a case could be made that the genesis of the defamation is the placing of the herbs on the doorstep, I think for the doctorine to apply it needs to be related to actions regarding the defamation. Something like the OP is called by a newpaper about the issue after being contacted by the person and the OP confirms the defamation and the newspaper prints it--causing the OP more damages. (Although the newspaper would probably be in the clear, the person would be on the line for more.) The OP would have done nothing illegal and the law is still the same regarding the defamation and the damages, but her "unclean hands" changed things. A court, in equity, would say it is unfair for the OP to receive the increased damages.

 

[JETX]

I don't think the equitable doctorine of unclean hands would apply

Who gives a crap what you THINK???

This is not the Oprah or Dr Phil website. This is a LEGAL advice site.

First, although more facts would be needed (and knowledge of what the law is in that jurisdiction)

That is the ONLY thing you have said that is accurate... and it even shows that you don't have enough FACTS to make a valid opinion. Or do you just shape your opinion without them??

the OP stated she was a licenses alternative medicine practitioner.

And if you had ANY legal experience, you would know that there is no such thing. States can CERTIFY someone as an 'alternative medicine practioner', but there is no such thing as a LICENSE!!! Also, certified AMP are NOT allowed to dispense 'prescription' medication.
And even then, most of them are quacks...

A court, in equity, would say it is unfair for the OP to receive the increased damages.

Where the hell did you get that crap??

 

[tranquility]

Who gives a crap what you THINK???

Any legal advice should come from the brain and not the hormones. Oprah, and you, seem to prefer the later.

And if you had ANY legal experience, you would know that there is no such thing. States can CERTIFY someone as an 'alternative medicine practioner', but there is no such thing as a LICENSE!!! Also, certified AMP are NOT allowed to dispense 'prescription' medication.
And even then, most of them are quacks...

OK, but I believe she left "medicinal herbs" on the doorstep. I can buy ginko at the local store. That is a medicinal herb.

Of course the point was that I don't think that even if this were relevant, that there is anything to indicate unclean hands. Of course it is not relevant because of point #2 which you responed to "A court, in equity, would say it is unfair for the OP to receive the increased damages. " with:

Where the hell did you get that crap??

I just knew the answer and didn't know where I got it. However, when I look at the question I find it in my Remedies case book. Would you like a cite?