Question about percentages and back rent on old case

[isis297]

What is the name of your state? MD

We have a confusing case where my great grandmother died in 1978 without a will. Through your guys' advice in the past, we have just stayed the course and had some estranged relatives' names floating around out there til they could be found and become part of this probate issue as per current MD intestate law. They were just recently found a few months ago.

Now there is a new part to the situation that I need advice on.

Here is the family tree:

Great grandma had 3 children live to adulthood.

One daughter had two sons (estranged relatives) and died 10 years before great grandma in 1968.

Great grandma died in 1978.

My great uncle was a bachelor his whole life and died in 1981.

My grandma died in 2004.

1) Our initial take was the estranged relatives' are due half the value of my great grandma's house - end of discussion. We are being told by one of the estate lawyers that they can demand 28 years of back rent too. Is this true?

2) Another estate lawyer says technically they are not due back rent because they never came forward and told us our family would have to pay rent if we stayed there therefore they can't go back 28 years for it now. Statute of limitations was also mentioned.

3) One of them also said that they are not due half the value but one third because as of closing my great grandmother's estate, the value would be split in thirds for each adult child. The estranged relatives get their third. That's it. He said that because their mother died BEFORE my great grandmother BEFORE my great uncle, that they would not be due half of his inheritance even though he died without a will as well. After all we've been through and I've learned from reading and being on here, I don't know what to believe because I thought they would still get half of the great uncle's too.

I just wanted to get your take because you have been so wonderful with your advice in the past.

Thanks.

 

[isis297]

With Adverse Possession not being anything that would be a part of our situation, I'd still like to get your advice on the percentages and rent please.

Thanks!

 

[seniorjudge]

Have a title company that does work in the county where the place is give you a letter report on the state of the title.

 

[isis297]

Is that different from the deed which is in my great grandmother's name and the real property search which shows either my great grandfather's or great uncle's name? (One was Sr. and one was Jr. and the real property search doesn't show either.)

 

[seniorjudge]

Is that different from the deed which is in my great grandmother's name and the real property search which shows either my great grandfather's or great uncle's name? (One was Sr. and one was Jr. and the real property search doesn't show either.)

A title report goes back through all the deeds and everything else recorded in the land deed records that have affected the title.

The title company gives you an opinion on who they think owns the land and what liens (if any) are on the land.

 

[isis297]

Ok, so once we get that, then we would be able to determine how the percentages would most likely work out and if rent for 28 years is acceptable? If all things are as we've been told so far, deed and real property search, what are your thoughts?

You're the best. Thank you.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Ok, so once we get that, then we would be able to determine how the percentages would most likely work out and if rent for 28 years is acceptable?

A: It is a major first step on the road to negotiations.


Q: If all things are as we've been told so far, deed and real property search, what are your thoughts?

A: Everyone will have to work together to get the title problems solved OR pay lawyers and courts lots of money (and spend lots of time) to do the same thing.

 

[isis297]

Unfortunately I see this continuing on the messy route it's been on. The "cousins" don't care about negotiating or being fair. They are asking for everything they think they can which is why I was asking about statute of limitations on the back rent issue. All they care about is getting as much money as possible and have even begun asking what they are going to get from my grandmother's estate!! 1) We aren't done with this one yet and 2) my grandmother had a will thank God!

 

[isis297]

I checked with my mom and she said a title search was done. There are no liens and my great grandmother's name is on the title.

 

[isis297]

Here's the info from my second recent post in this section so it stays with the first

Here is the info copied over. I don't know how to find my original post as it's from what seems like so long ago now so I hope copying the questions to this one is okay. I'd really like to get your advice so I can let my mom know.

We are not trying to keep the house. We were but the situation just needs to be done with and selling it is part of what it will take.

The mixed up advice we are still getting is:

1) The estranged cousins are asking for their portion plus 28 years of back rent. We've been told they can ask for it, that they cannot ask for it especially since there was never a rental agreement and they never came forward before now, or that they can for 3 years of back rent.

2) Can my mom as exectutor of the estate put an easement on the house so that it and the property are at least protected from being destroyed? It's an old enough house but just not sure because the title is in great grandma's name. One guy at the historical trust said he thought she had certain powers over the house as exectutor but wasn't sure if that was one of them.

3) The last piece where we are getting mixed info at this moment is that because there were 3 children who made it to adulthood, the "cousins" get 1/3...not 1/2. The different stories we are getting are in regards to my great uncle's 1/3. He died a few years after great grandma a bachelor. He was never married and never had any children. He also died without a will. On one hand we are told his portion gets split in half between the other two adult children even though the one died before the great grandma and by another that the "cousins" don't get any of his because of the time table of everyone's deaths. :-|

(Cousins' mother/great grandma's daughter/great uncle's sister died in 1968;
great grandma died in 1978;
great uncle died in 1981;
grandma died in 2004.)

 

[isis297]

Hi, I was just wondering if any of the senior members had any advice on my new questions.

Thanks.

 

[tranquility]

I tried to follow the players a few times, but couldn't do it as some things are not clear. We all know the basic intestate succession law (starting from great grandma) is:

Decedent's surviving issue, by representation. In such case, the property is divided into as many equal shares as there are children of the decedent who survive the decedent and children of the decedent who did not survive the decedent but of whom issue did survive the decedent. Each child of the decedent who did survive the decedent receives one share. Each child of decedent who did not survive also gets a share, except that the share is split between the nonsurviving child's children. The same pattern is repeated for other children that do not survive until all shares are determined.

The time of determination is the death of the party, not at the distribution. I have a couple of questions. First, how many children (in total) did GG have? If any died before GG, did they have any children? How many? From these questions we can determine percentages.

Now, what is happening with the "rents"? If a co-tenant is living in the house, basic property law theory allows each co-tenant the right to possession with no rents due. However, if the property is still owned by the estate, why couldn't you say the person living at the property during this time was there to prevent waste and no rents would be due? (With the person living there magnamously not charging for the service.)

If the property has been rented out by either the estate or the co-tenants to a third party, then the total rents must be divided for the whole time. This is because the estate or the co-tenants are in a fiduciary relationship and the Statute would not run from a breach, but from the termination of the relationship.

 

[isis297]

Thank you for responding.

GG had 4. One died before the age of one; three lived to adulthood. One daughter died 10 years before her and left 2 children...they are the ones we haven't communicated with for almost 40 years. One son was never married, never had any children, and died 3 years after her without a will as well. One daughter, my grandmother, just died 2 years ago. She also had two children. There is also a gentleman who was my great grandmother's foster child until he reached a certain age and was released by the state I guess it was. He has been with my family for the past 45+ years but I don't think he comes into this because he wasn't made legal but I don't know.

As for the rents, my grandma and great uncle lived there until the days they died. My grandmother's one daughter (my aunt) still lives there. All of these people lived in the house even before my GG died taking care of her and the house. Our family has been taking care of the house (insurance, maintenance, keeping the utilities on, and taxes) for all of this time. One lawyer said they are just trying to use every angle they can to get as much out of the house as they can. I just don't see how they can ask for it when they never came forward for the past 28+ years and if my family hadn't taken care of the house, it wouldn't be here for them to get anything out of now. It's interesting you mention about not charging them for taking care of the house because I told my mom if they push the rent, she should absolutely push for that.

(Cousins' mother/great grandma's daughter/great uncle's sister died in 1968;
great grandma died in 1978;
great uncle died in 1981;
grandma died in 2004.)