Seeing Red

[Bill Bratzky]

What is the name of your state? Oregon

Greetings. Here's a quick snapshot of the nonsense on my radar today...

I am a member of an online forum that is composed of 1000+ members and is of international makeup. The site originates out of the US (NE US...I think) and functions on a relatively anonymous basis. Some might choose to reveal first names after a degree of comfort is found, but for the most part it is screen names and some brief area of origin that identifies members.

One member resides in Virginia Beach, VA. He has recently taken it upon himself to seek, purchase, retain, and publish my personal information via a service called Intelius. He is posting the information along with his own written words, in a manner that can be interpreted as nothing beyond vicious and with intent to cause whatever harm, embarrassment, or misery might be possible. He has ranted of revenge and made statements that I should never have messed with him (somewhere in the past, I apparently disassembled him in some online debate - I assure you that no personal information, threats, or over the top antics took place). He has listed my address, my parents address, and a good amount of other information that I never came anywhere close to volunteering or making public knowledge. He has also taken some cues in the reports he purchased, highlighted them in bold, and left significant emphasis in his posts suggesting that I have done things that are simply not true.

I have contacted the Intelius company after reading their user agreement online, and noticing a part of their contract involved personal use and a promise to abide to all regulations and laws....I'm just not sure if this is an official breach of any law.

It seems that there is some areas of the 1st Amendment that this guy is flirting with as far as a violation.

I am a mod for the forum...I have (by his volunteering online in an open forum) the guys name, address, telephone number, IP address, captured screen shots of the offensive posts (in case he gets wise and realizes he stepped over the line),witness accounts, and a big old axe to grind (not literal).

I have contacted the forum owner and asked that the guy be banned - it is typically a pretty hands off experiment in observing a bizarre cross section of international humanity, but I feel in this case the owner might be better off cutting this dead weight. I intend to contact the police in the guys place of dwelling - and seek every possible action criminal and civil - that I can in staging a counter attack on the right side of the law.

Am I protected somehow? Can a grudge and Andrew Jackson picture really get you anything on anyone with full authority to reprint background?

Any help at all would be most appreciated.What is the name of your state?

Sorry for the lengthy post - I tend to get lost in a whirlwind of finger flailing at the keys when I get miffed.What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?

 

[BelizeBreeze]

All the time to find this site, register, think of a cute username and make this post and not ONE WORD of what was said about you or whether or not it was factual.

 

[Bill Bratzky]

Be nice now!

Tell you what - my complete comfort perimeter has shrunk considerably in the last 3 days.

It is quite unsettling to see a complete stranger post your name and links to your personal information and background for the world to see....especially when you have been functioning under an assumed shield of agreed anonymity.

Are you peanut gallery or someone that might help me? I'm not trying to be a Montel williams guest - I'm just trying to find some direction and information from somebody with background.

If the guy had the wrong name - would I be here?

He got me dead to rights - published my past for the world to see wit the intent of causing grief.

Incidentally, between google, SNL, a thorn in my ass, and a pot of coffee.....none of what you mention required much time at all.

Does factual give the guy free reign to purchase and republish personal information? Including addresses of my family?

 

[Bill Bratzky]

Upon further review...

I think I have been able to ferret out the extent of advice I will likely get.

Not sure what this place is comprised of.....I still welcome any response. Just seems that this is more of a google trap for entertaining posts more than anything.


Nice site though.....wrong initial impression.

Here's to fake names and vague specifics....I need to stop stepping in buckets.

 

[Quaere]

He has listed my address, my parents address, and a good amount of other information that I never came anywhere close to volunteering or making public knowledge. He has also taken some cues in the reports he purchased, highlighted them in bold, and left significant emphasis in his posts suggesting that I have done things that are simply not true.

How did he find out your legal name? If you have given enough info for one person on that forum to learn your real name, anyone else there could have done the same and found out the same info about you. I am assuming all of the info he has posted is PUBLIC info?

It would be necessary to see exactly what this guy has done in order to determine whether you have any civil recourse.

Here is an interesting case: http://www.epic.org/privacy/boyer/

It is possible his behavior qualifies as criminal harassment and even though that is a minor charge, it should be enough to make him stop.

 

[Bill Bratzky]

Apparently the guy has created a substantial cross referencing database that he consistently adds information (small as it might be) to....I guess he keeps book on the members that have been in the mix for the longest stretch...(15-20 members that have hung out for at least a year or so...) - this was acknowledged by one member that actually met the guy (they live in the same US region) and shot some pool....

Somehow he got wind of a myspace account that featured my legal name - it was, after all, set up to find old friends/classmates,etc. I would guess that the guy probably obsessed to a disturbing degree for about 3 months tracking my info.

He actually PAID for a background check - and is now posting information online for free...I checked the user agreement at the site, and I'm pretty sure they don't like the idea.

I concede to the fact that the electronic age will have anybody REALLY wanting info - getting info. I'm not going to wear a tinfoil hat and hide. The gross violation of privacy wit the intent to publish and allegedly cause dismay is my main beef. By not being ironclad in the past...I don't think there is much sense in fretting about what people will do with too much time, and small amounts of money burning holes in their pockets. It seems fundamentally wrong that a person can freely distribute personal (yet harmless to anyone else) information based on a grudge.

I guess that is all I was seeking - some word that society has deteriorated to the point that normal people are vulnerable to wearing personal aspects of past days, on their lapels for all (interested or not) to view.

thanks for the case link...I truly appreciate it.

 

[The Occultist]

What personal information is he publishing? Things like addresses and phone numbers are deemed public materials, thus posting such would not be any breach of privacy.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Does factual give the guy free reign to purchase and republish personal information? Including addresses of my family?

Yep, it sure does

 

[Bill Bratzky]

The most disturbing posting involves past legal fiasco's of my younger days....they are not sealed - all a part of the roaring 20's...so there is no shield for being a minor.


But everything from traffic violations to some stupid misdemeanors are on full presentation....I did some background reading on some interpretations of the 1st amendment concerning the publication of embarrassing personal information - seemed like the specifics fit this situation, though the degree of impact outrage it could possibly inflict seems pretty subjective, and I am sure I amplify it through my own ego defense more than anything.

I'm not delusional and thinking I can go for the jugular - figure minimum I at least get it reported and recorded so that the crazy ******* has some paper trail leading back to him if he did something wacky like giving me the Bogosion from 'Talk Radio' treatment anywhere down the road ( I kid....but I have to admit some kooky/paranoid corner of my mind honestly thinks the dude to be quite unstable). I never like throwing cash around toward futile efforts, but I would be willing to turn the screws a bit just to send some message and make the guy rethink future actions against another.

Initial guiding force was shock at the perceived violation - and the trumpeting of vengeance with an urge to counter. I realize now, that there is nothing overly harmful - embarrassing...sure, out of line...absolutely.....but I'm not sure it could be construed as harmful.

So for a 20 spot, anyone can run a routine of "This Is Your Careless Past" for all the world to see? (Yeah, I know - run a completely straight game and you have no worries....believe me, if I could go back and give myself advice..I would)

Ain't life grand?

again, thanks for any and all responses.

 

[Quaere]

So for a 20 spot, anyone can run a routine of "This Is Your Careless Past" for all the world to see?

Not necessarily.

is the name of your state? Oregon

I intend to contact the police in the guys place of dwelling - and seek every possible action criminal and civil - that I can in staging a counter attack on the right side of the law.

I think you can make a case for stalking. I’d file a complaint with the Virginia police. Virginia stalking law can be found here: http://members.aol.com/lrfuzz1/StalkingLaws/StateLaws.html#oregon

One member resides in Virginia Beach, VA. ...He is posting the information along with his own written words, in a manner that can be interpreted as nothing beyond vicious and with intent to cause whatever harm, embarrassment, or misery might be possible. He has ranted of revenge and made statements that I should never have messed with him (somewhere in the past, I apparently disassembled him in some online debate - I assure you that no personal information, threats, or over the top antics took place). He has listed my address, my parents address, and a good amount of other information that I never came anywhere close to volunteering or making public knowledge. He has also taken some cues in the reports he purchased, highlighted them in bold, and left significant emphasis in his posts suggesting that I have done things that are simply not true.

He has ADMITTED his intention to cause distress and if I were you, I WOULD BE distressed.

I think you have enough to safely bring suit for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. I’m not saying you would win such a suit or that it would be cost effective to take it to trial, just that I think you have sufficient cause to file the complaint.

An Oregon Opinion on Intentional Infliction Torts can be found at http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/S46518.htm

 

[rmet4nzkx]

What is the name of your state? Oregon

... ...

I am a mod for the forum...I have (by his volunteering online in an open forum) the guys name, address, telephone number, IP address, captured screen shots of the offensive posts (in case he gets wise and realizes he stepped over the line),witness accounts, and a big old axe to grind (not literal).

I have contacted the forum owner and asked that the guy be banned - it is typically a pretty hands off experiment in observing a bizarre cross section of international humanity, but I feel in this case the owner might be better off cutting this dead weight. I intend to contact the police in the guys place of dwelling - and seek every possible action criminal and civil - that I can in staging a counter attack on the right side of the law.

Am I protected somehow? Can a grudge and Andrew Jackson picture really get you anything on anyone with full authority to reprint background?

Any help at all would be most appreciated.What is the name of your state?

Sorry for the lengthy post - I tend to get lost in a whirlwind of finger flailing at the keys when I get miffed.What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?

I have read all of your posts here and am a bit confused.

If you are a moderator for the forum, e.g. an employee of that forum with administrative access to the site, why is it that you are having such troubles simply banning him and removing his posts? The problem is that in addition to what the site's privacy policies and TOS are, YOU revealed enough information that he was able to obtain more with a few keystrokes. BTW, often the information gathered by the service mentioned often gathers information already available to the public, it is a matter of convenience for someone else to do the leg work. Since you are a moderator for the forum and voluntarily injected yourself into the public's eye, the first amendment and the FTC act of 1996 section 230 in general protects this party especially since the information is true. There is a case where "intent" to cause harm was an issue and the basis was differing opinions and this might apply in your case if the information wasn't true.

In most cases, moderators are an anonymous position and screenname shared between several people none of whom are individually identified unless they choose to, PM or email from moderators are equally anonymous, if they do reveal information that can lead to their identity, then they become a "public or semi-public figure". It is not enough to depend on the sites promise to maintain your anonymity, you have to take steps to protect it as well. These public forums are clearly anonymous, both by their privacy policy and the fact that when you register, there isn't even a place or requirement for a name, you have to opt in to receive email from othermembers or to activate the PM feature. Most people who choose to guard their anonynimity, don't use the same email they use for business or family, they keep it separate and don't use their real name they either because it will come up when that is pinged. Some features or services have a requirement for a name associated with payment for services or in the legalsoapbox feature to activate certain other features, but to view the forums as a guest or to post as a member of the public forums does not, yet every day people post such information or information that can identify themselves and are offended when someone puts the puzzle together. I also know of instances where a life was saved, but it is your choice when you reveal your name and other private information.

If the person is stalking you, and you really have his true name and not that of another victim, it is possible that you may have some recourse under the anti cyber stalking laws which went into effect last year. But your first course of action beyond researching the extent of this problem is to ask your employer to delete the offensive posts and ban that user, then request Google remove them from cache. Even if you get a restraining order, that would be against future acts not past ones. Another thing to consider is that some forums employ professional trolls to keep traffic and their members stirred up.

 

[Bill Bratzky]

Guess I need to get on point and realize that details are key in sifting out potential action possibilities in a situation such as this.

A bit of background on the forum. It is built to funnel in only a select sector of people - a post-product of an MBTI test analysis....Jungian personality types - most people there fell into the forum by chance. It is fairly cerebral, and an international mix. There are no established rules - spam being the only enemy/problem. Once the spambots started their daily carpetbombing routines - the site creator (who seems to prefer laissez faire as his administration style) dubbed about 5 people as mods and gave them thread police powers, with the understanding that the ONLY action that should be taken is the systematic snuffage of anything spammish.....even here, mods have been very careful and hesitant to delete without absolute certainty that spam exists (the bots are getting craftier every day, it seems).

I only realized that I had been given mod access, as my current situation was unfolding....I commented on my urge to use the edit button on my obsessive n'er do well's intrusive posts - and was told that other standard users did not have an edit option.....from here I noticed a small button in the upper right hand box of posts that would display IP address information. So i am not really 'employed', nor did I 'apply' for mod status - and I have not been a functioning mod....I mentioned the mod aspect because I have been able to isolate the guys IP address through my newfound 'powers'.

I could easily delete this guys post - but I do not have the option do any IP banning or banning....I have made a detailed plea to the admin to spark the first official banning of the site - but no response so far. As it is, I decided to leave the guys posts for both the admin to examine, and to diagram the guys actions as I collected information, notified the authorities, and moved on in my explorations toward countering/defending the "attack".

The information he gathered on me was obtained by somehow sleuthing out a myspace account....I assume he found another member of the forum on myspace, and cross reffed a "friends list" that I happened to be on - I have privacy settings locked in, but unfortunately my own ignorance found me using my full name as the URL for my account.
That probably sounds pretty stupid - believe me, I have learned a painful lesson in the last week or so about the down side of being up front with online personal representation. I'm no where near the term 'techie' and did not process the real pros and cons of attaching my name to my online presence.

I understand that the information he is throwing around is likely not pryed forth from some database.....and that it is public record that can be accessed by anyone with the gumption to track it down - it is the publication and distinct manipulation with suggested emphasis toward untruth (he is posting potential definitions to past misdemeanor charges with bolded emphasis to pain an ugly picture....for example there is a misdemeanor harassment charge that he is eluding toward (in bolded stylings) 'inappropriate touching of sexual regions'. Getting lumped in the mix as a "could-be" sexual offender is not real fun.

Just got off the phone with VAPD - they are trying to determine if there is a criminal charge woven in here....but they seem confident a civil route is at hand (of course this might just be a "pass the buck" routine to free up the phone line). Their advice seesm to be to make a local report so there is an established paper trail in case things go up another notch or 12.

Sorry to ramble....I'm sure there are more undefined gaps in my scenario that I have failed to address again.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Guess I need to get on point and realize that details are key in sifting out potential action possibilities in a situation such as this.

A bit of background on the forum. It is built to funnel in only a select sector of people - a post-product of an MBTI test analysis....Jungian personality types - most people there fell into the forum by chance. It is fairly cerebral, and an international mix. There are no established rules - spam being the only enemy/problem. Once the spambots started their daily carpetbombing routines - the site creator (who seems to prefer laissez faire as his administration style) dubbed about 5 people as mods and gave them thread police powers, with the understanding that the ONLY action that should be taken is the systematic snuffage of anything spammish.....even here, mods have been very careful and hesitant to delete without absolute certainty that spam exists (the bots are getting craftier every day, it seems).

I only realized that I had been given mod access, as my current situation was unfolding....I commented on my urge to use the edit button on my obsessive n'er do well's intrusive posts - and was told that other standard users did not have an edit option.....from here I noticed a small button in the upper right hand box of posts that would display IP address information. So i am not really 'employed', nor did I 'apply' for mod status - and I have not been a functioning mod....I mentioned the mod aspect because I have been able to isolate the guys IP address through my newfound 'powers'.

I could easily delete this guys post - but I do not have the option do any IP banning or banning....I have made a detailed plea to the admin to spark the first official banning of the site - but no response so far. As it is, I decided to leave the guys posts for both the admin to examine, and to diagram the guys actions as I collected information, notified the authorities, and moved on in my explorations toward countering/defending the "attack".

The information he gathered on me was obtained by somehow sleuthing out a myspace account....I assume he found another member of the forum on myspace, and cross reffed a "friends list" that I happened to be on - I have privacy settings locked in, but unfortunately my own ignorance found me using my full name as the URL for my account.
That probably sounds pretty stupid - believe me, I have learned a painful lesson in the last week or so about the down side of being up front with online personal representation. I'm no where near the term 'techie' and did not process the real pros and cons of attaching my name to my online presence.

I understand that the information he is throwing around is likely not pryed forth from some database.....and that it is public record that can be accessed by anyone with the gumption to track it down - it is the publication and distinct manipulation with suggested emphasis toward untruth (he is posting potential definitions to past misdemeanor charges with bolded emphasis to pain an ugly picture....for example there is a misdemeanor harassment charge that he is eluding toward (in bolded stylings) 'inappropriate touching of sexual regions'. Getting lumped in the mix as a "could-be" sexual offender is not real fun.

Just got off the phone with VAPD - they are trying to determine if there is a criminal charge woven in here....but they seem confident a civil route is at hand (of course this might just be a "pass the buck" routine to free up the phone line). Their advice seesm to be to make a local report so there is an established paper trail in case things go up another notch or 12.

Sorry to ramble....I'm sure there are more undefined gaps in my scenario that I have failed to address again.

Sometimes these things are darned if you do and darned if your don't.
So, what MBTI "type" are you and are all these forum members the same type?

If is is all public record, unless and until it raised to the level of stalking you will have some trouble taking any action and sometimes you can turn it on them. For example, someone took the trouble to post about me on another site saying I am into a lot of unsavory things, ALL FALSE, is it opinion? Make a joke about it. They are baiting you, they lurk and bait, it is entertainment to them.

Some people have called me very bad names here because they didn't like the advice they received because it wasn't what they wanted to hear, you have to develop a thicker skin or don't expose yourself to public forums and DON'T place your personal information online in a public forum or inject yourself into a place where you attract trolls. Sometimes you fan the flames when you do something and or eventually you give them enough rope and then they do what happens naturally. What is you ROI on this?

I have helped others undo some of the damage done, in one instances 2 posts developed into 110 Internet links within days and even if they are deleted from the site and cache you still have many others out there and people will never believe the truth no matter how much proof you have.

Make a police report in both jurisdictions and if it becomes cyberstalking, contact your local field office for the FBI.

 

[Bill Bratzky]

I have been tagged as INTP.....the site is tailored to IN types with the variables being T/S or P/J. It really is quite a brilliant 'experiment' - put a bunch of typed introverted intuitives onto an island with no real rules (forum rules....used to think that basic real world decency was a given) and see what happens. The typical pecking order has developed based on time aboard the place and input/effort.....the upside is that the lowest common denominator of most open public/publicized forums is absent - people tend to be fairly well read, objective, and possess some inherent degree of critical thinking.....all angles of life direction are represented - many different countries - good times.

Stalking might be the way I roll with it - depends how it is defined. He has said he keeps extensive files on me, says that I "will be sorry", says that "I should never have f**ked with him", has mentioned my kids, made some veiled insinuation about visiting Oregon and showing me a thing or 2.....all the basic tough-guy routines.

The root of it seems to be my unknowingly tripping some issues in his head concerning his mother. The guy had chased a few females off the board by being WAY too needy and persistent for their own comfort level.....he tends to go off on sideways rants about odd things and has demonstrated a knack for completely misunderstanding or comprehending thread lines and taking them to bizarre non sequitur tangents. At some point I made a side ref to Hitch****s Psycho and asked him how "mother" was.....well, apparently his mom had died some time ago (dude is in his 50's) and he went on to describe her last years of misery. At this point he transitioned into Annie Wilkes ("Misery character) and got VERY dark and obsessed. Radio Silence for about 2 months and he suddenly reappears switching from Annie Wilkes To Max Cady (Cape Fear).

I'm still looking into the 1st Amendment connections I dug up...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_privacy (used that as a springboard...yeah, wiki...I know)

This is all square 1 for me in a realm of reality I never intended to explore....got a new hobby at least - hashing out documents that might show me direction.

"you have to develop a thicker skin or don't expose yourself to public forums and DON'T place your personal information online in a public forum or inject yourself into a place where you attract trolls."

(sorry, not savvy to this boards quote/bold methods yet)

I have a pretty thick hide - and I have learned my lesson concerning the need to pile a few layers of buffer around personal info online - especially in socialized settings of opinion/debate. Trolls don't worry me - I have a pretty good record in the troll wars....I'm overly persistent in 'finishing the game' once it begins. This is an entirely different universe that the common troll - this is locked in, vindictive, tunnel vision, obsession of some sort...

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I have been tagged as INTP.....the site is tailored to IN types with the variables being T/S or P/J. It really is quite a brilliant 'experiment' - put a bunch of typed introverted intuitives onto an island with no real rules (forum rules....used to think that basic real world decency was a given) and see what happens. The typical pecking order has developed based on time aboard the place and input/effort.....the upside is that the lowest common denominator of most open public/publicized forums is absent - people tend to be fairly well read, objective, and possess some inherent degree of critical thinking.....all angles of life direction are represented - many different countries - good times.

Stalking might be the way I roll with it - depends how it is defined. He has said he keeps extensive files on me, says that I "will be sorry", says that "I should never have f**ked with him", has mentioned my kids, made some veiled insinuation about visiting Oregon and showing me a thing or 2.....all the basic tough-guy routines.

The root of it seems to be my unknowingly tripping some issues in his head concerning his mother. The guy had chased a few females off the board by being WAY too needy and persistent for their own comfort level.....he tends to go off on sideways rants about odd things and has demonstrated a knack for completely misunderstanding or comprehending thread lines and taking them to bizarre non sequitur tangents. At some point I made a side ref to Hitch****s Psycho and asked him how "mother" was.....well, apparently his mom had died some time ago (dude is in his 50's) and he went on to describe her last years of misery. At this point he transitioned into Annie Wilkes ("Misery character) and got VERY dark and obsessed. Radio Silence for about 2 months and he suddenly reappears switching from Annie Wilkes To Max Cady (Cape Fear).

I'm still looking into the 1st Amendment connections I dug up...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_privacy (used that as a springboard...yeah, wiki...I know)

This is all square 1 for me in a realm of reality I never intended to explore....got a new hobby at least - hashing out documents that might show me direction.

"you have to develop a thicker skin or don't expose yourself to public forums and DON'T place your personal information online in a public forum or inject yourself into a place where you attract trolls."

(sorry, not savvy to this boards quote/bold methods yet)

I have a pretty thick hide - and I have learned my lesson concerning the need to pile a few layers of buffer around personal info online - especially in socialized settings of opinion/debate. Trolls don't worry me - I have a pretty good record in the troll wars....I'm overly persistent in 'finishing the game' once it begins. This is an entirely different universe that the common troll - this is locked in, vindictive, tunnel vision, obsession of some sort...

INTP, well as you know that puts you in the most elite group of scholars, and exactly the answer I expected for several reasons.

KANT, EINSTEIN, JUNG, UNIBOMBER... All brilliant people some with decent social skills, others who were in a different world. IN types as with all the "geeks" do not utilize logic or integrate the rules of society as expected and are highly defended. While not everyone who is brilliant has a autism spectrum disorder known as HFA or Asperger's, a good many do and if the individual who is giving you problems has this disorder and is high functioning, you may have a difficult time convincing anyone that they represent a risk until too late, because they will have plausible excuses for their behaviors and seem needy or naive and confused.

Which comes back to the original point, YOU put personal information on the Internet and like with anything put on the Internet, it is not like a court of law, where you are considered innocent until proven guilty. Once it is on the Internet, it only needs a seed of truth before it can be spun into something very different and it doesn't go away. For example, if a "complaint" or a lawsuit is posted on the Internet, it stays there whether or not it results in a dismissal, decision or judgement and even if a decision is published, people won't believe it is true, some people want to believe the worst while others won't believe the facts. People don't check to see how it is resolved.

Beyond my prior advice, be safe. Remove as best you can all references to your personal data from online and cache. Remove yourself from that forum if the owner fails to delete the posts or ban the member, it isn't worth it. Some people are unpredictable and if they are high functioning with a chronic neurological or psychological disorder they generally decline with age fairly rapidly unless they have a good support system.