Supervised Visitation logistics... taking against orders

[critterperson]

Our school district's attorney told me that as long as the school has a copy of the custody/visitation order and that it specifies exactly when the NCP can have the kids - they will follow the order. W/O an order on file that fits the above, they cannot and will not interfere with his picking the kids up when he chooses to, although they would call me to let me know.

Exactly, If the order states the NCP can pick up the children on Monday at 8am, and the NCP shows up on Friday at 10am (contrary to the courts order) and without the CP's authorization, they are not legally obligated to hand over the child...Hense, they will be following a legal court order, and not breaking any laws.

Is the amber alert system only in Illinois? I don't know how many times I have had my weather bug go off for an amber alert, and it was a NCP taking their child from somewhere against the visitation schedule...these people are hunted like dogs in Illinois and charged with parental kidnapping.

Just called my son's school, because this has me upset thinking they would just hand him over... I think it is the pregnancy thing? (my oldest baby is in Pre-k) the school has a copy of my court order, and they assured me that due to my Sole custody status, and the fact that Dad had visitation on specific days that do not correspond with school hours...They would not release my son to his father if he showed up, unless he had written authorization from me...Whew! His father isn_t violent, but is facing jail time if he doesn_t pay over $4000 by February 5th 2007 and some people would cut and run, and I don_t want him running with our son_If he would like to run away on his own however, that would be fine!

 

[Bloopy]

Incidentally, I did not mean, “slow” to be an accusation or as a euphemism for mentally retarded. She is perfectly intelligent. I mean literally slow as in it takes her long time to move along. If daycare were to call dad, he’d likely have sufficient time to arrive to “sort things out” because she’d still be there. Therefore, the daycare would not be interfering with her picking up the children.

And yes, I would be concerned for the children’s safety. The judge specifically told her in court to stop appearing when it was not her time. It has happened before. Her lawyer has advised her of this as well. For her to violate these instructions- if not an explicit court order-would jeopardize her precarious situation in court. If an otherwise intelligent person who suffers from mental illness is doing something that shows poor judgment like blatantly deifying a judge and her lawyer’s advise. Then she is likely to repeat the dangerous acts of poor judgment that led her to have such limited visitation in the first place. This is a pattern over years. I happen to deeply care for this woman and I have actually worked on her behalf. However, possible kidnapping etc may be preferable to a dramatic explosion should she hear the word no. That much is not even a matter of legality on my part. I know that, seeing that kind of drama is definitely not in the best interests of the children. Furthermore, they should look to their father for a sense of safety rather than me or any other care provider.

 

[critterperson]

Incidentally, I did not mean, “slow” to be an accusation or as a euphemism for mentally retarded. She is perfectly intelligent. I mean literally slow as in it takes her long time to move along. If daycare were to call dad, he’d likely have sufficient time to arrive to “sort things out” because she’d still be there. Therefore, the daycare would not be interfering with her picking up the children.

And yes, I would be concerned for the children’s safety. The judge specifically told her in court to stop appearing when it was not her time. It has happened before. Her lawyer has advised her of this as well. For her to violate these instructions- if not an explicit court order-would jeopardize her precarious situation in court. If an otherwise intelligent person who suffers from mental illness is doing something that shows poor judgment like blatantly deifying a judge and her lawyer’s advise. Then she is likely to repeat the dangerous acts of poor judgment that led her to have such limited visitation in the first place. This is a pattern over years. I happen to deeply care for this woman and I have actually worked on her behalf. However, possible kidnapping etc may be preferable to a dramatic explosion should she hear the word no. That much is not even a matter of legality on my part. I know that, seeing that kind of drama is definitely not in the best interests of the children. Furthermore, they should look to their father for a sense of safety rather than me or any other care provider.

Maybe we should arrest the judge for interferring with the mothers right to take her child when it isn't her visitation time???

Hey Bloopy, what does the CP have to say about her showing up when the child is in your care?

 

[Bloopy]

Unlikely, since this was the advice given by CPS, CASA, and the girls’ GAL.

 

[CJane]

The judge specifically told her in court to stop appearing when it was not her time.

But unless the judge included that IN HIS ORDER... it's irrelevant. The judge told my ex to seriously consider whether or not he wanted to waste the court's time with his motion against me for supervised visitation - that didn't prevent the ex from filing it.

What the judge said in court to the mother has NO BEARING on whether or not the mother has a right to her children.

Again, I think arrest is unlikely. I also think that it would be a very bad idea for you to refuse to turn the children over to mom if she insisted that she be allowed to take them.

If this is a serious concern for dad, then HE needs to address this through the courts, and this time get it in an ORDER that mom cannot have the children EXCEPT during the times as outlined in the order. If everything you've posted is true, then he should have no trouble doing so.

 

[critterperson]

Unlikely, since this was the advice given by CPS, CASA, and the girls’ GAL.

I was just joking...I don't believe that a childcare facility should give over a child against a court ordered visitation schedule without the authorization of the other parent. However, If the court order allowed for visitation time for the other parent on days that the child was in daycare, I would expect the childcare facility to follow that order as well...

 

[Bloopy]

Critterperson asked: “Hey Bloopy, what does the CP have to say about her showing up when the child is in your care?”

He worried about kidnapping and the kind of past abuse that I will not be more specific about because I don’t want to violate privacy. I think I have moved too far from “generic” custody squabbling already. He wants to know things about her behavior that would suggest if her engine was running euphorically or in anger.

He doesn’t know what the best course of action is, but he doesn’t wasn’t anyone to get in trouble or for the daycare to bounce the girls to avoid the hassle. Right now, the plan is to call him unless there is a court order. Even with a court order he’d come to help out and reassure the girls.

 

[critterperson]

But unless the judge included that IN HIS ORDER... it's irrelevant. The judge told my ex to seriously consider whether or not he wanted to waste the court's time with his motion against me for supervised visitation - that didn't prevent the ex from filing it.

What the judge said in court to the mother has NO BEARING on whether or not the mother has a right to her children.

Again, I think arrest is unlikely. I also think that it would be a very bad idea for you to refuse to turn the children over to mom if she insisted that she be allowed to take them.

If this is a serious concern for dad, then HE needs to address this through the courts, and this time get it in an ORDER that mom cannot have the children EXCEPT during the times as outlined in the order. If everything you've posted is true, then he should have no trouble doing so.

Anything a judge orders you to do(or not to do) in a court proceeding is an order, and can be verified with trial transcripts...Most court rooms are equipped with recording equipment for this purpose, and at a minimal fee per page you can have the transcript transcribed by a court reporter...The reason for recording court proceedings is a good one...nothing gets lost in translation, you can get a copy of it for your records and use it at a later date to enforce an order of the court. Judges are human and sometimes what comes out of their mouth doesn't make it to an official "order" but that can be corrected with the use of a trial transcript...been there, done that...

 

[Bloopy]

CJane: You said. The judge told my ex to seriously consider whether or not he wanted to waste the court's time with his motion against me for supervised visitation - that didn't prevent the ex from filing it.

Of course not. Just like what the judge said did not stop mom from coming to my house. But his ignoring what the judge said and filing anyway did effect his position in court. “The only reason custody was changed was due to Dad's consistent and continuing efforts to use his status as sole custodian to control me and the children on my time.”

PS The father IS filing though the courts. I only came to this site in the first place because it was MLK weekend and I wanted info before today. His lawyer and others have consulted me today and even told be of the judge’s directives. They have neglected to give me legal advice, probably because they are fuzzy on the legalities themselves an I am not one of their charges..

Mom and dad have limited financial resources. Motions are being kept to a minimum because every action results in more court dates and expense.

 

[Bloopy]

Bloopy

I was advised by his lawyer and the GAL not to release the children. She is only to have the children during scheduled visitation. Its not supervised visitation but appointed representatives pop in on her. They said it would be parental kidnapping to get the kids outside of visitation. They also said that visiting for field day is not the same as taking the child off the premises. They did not refer me to a relevant statute an I haven’t found one myself. The custody order I have does not seem that specific but I have a “short version” the last custody hearing lasted into the evening after the clerks office closed. Maybe it will be more specific.

So, with written instructions from the lawyer I feel comfortable in the legality. Not to mention my guts in “reading” mom. I just hope it doesn’t come down to that.