Child support modifications after new job...

[CJane]

It's 15% in Tenn.

Alright, but I was pretty close for a WAG.

 

[amberlea434]

Okay, ya'll bare with me so I make sure I understand this...

Hypothetically speaking...he goes back to paying what is currently ordered in his papers. His ex decides she wants to modify the order based on his increase in income and the judge allows it. From that date on, he will have to pay the new amount set in the order. Will they make him go back and pay the difference from the day he got his raise to the day they modify the order? Or does the day he got his raise even matter...

 

[CJane]

Will they make him go back and pay the difference from the day he got his raise to the day they modify the order?

No. They will POSSIBLY go back to the date that the x filed for the modification, but they don't even ALWAYS do that.

 

[amberlea434]

I don't even know why we automatically assumed he would be penalized for it. We're just trying so much to do the right thing concerning his daughter. Thank ya'll so much for the info, it was extremely helpful.

 

[amberlea434]

So, here's one more question...

I was talking to my fiance last night about all of this and he's all for lowering his child support payments until we get the order modified when we move. His only hang up is, he's afraid his ex is going to get pissed off (because that's just the way she is) and throw in his face that he owes her half of some medical bills (i.e. co-payments and prescriptions) from the past few years (mostly because she never tells him about them). He has no problem paying that, he just assumed that because she never tells him about any kind of bills and nothing ever gets mailed to him from those doctors, that she was okay with it seeing as he overpays for his child support (which we added up last night was over $4,000 in "overpayment"). So, here's my question...if she does, indeed, decide to bring that up, can he just find out how much she has spent in the last three years on medical bills and tell her that was what the "overpayments" on the child support checks were? I'm quite certain she hasn't spent $4,000 in co-payments and prescriptions in three years. And, like I said before, the child support doesn't go through an agency. He writes them and gives them to her personally. Would this work?

 

[fairisfair]

um. . . . . so much for trying to do the right thing? Huh???

Check your states statutes, generally all out of pocket expenses must be presented to the NCP within a certain period of time, usually 180 days. If she has not presented the bills to him then he certainly would not be expected to pay them.

 

[CJane]

um. . . . . so much for trying to do the right thing? Huh???

Check your states statutes, generally all out of pocket expenses must be presented to the NCP within a certain period of time, usually 180 days. If she has not presented the bills to him then he certainly would not be expected to pay them.

Yup.

My exstupidhead tried to use my 'refusal' to pay my half of medical expenses as a reason why he shouldn't pay child support at all... and when asked when he'd submitted the bills to me for payment, he said "I submit her a report annually and give her 10 days to pay." Didn't fly in court. He was told to submit any bills that he received within 10 days of receipt if he expected to be reimbursed.

It's almost a sure thing that the ex WILL get pissed off when he starts paying less. And she'll probably file for a modification - and get it. But at least then it will be an ORDERED amount instead of him just gifting her the cash every month. And then when y'all move, it'll be up to mom to file for another mod if necessary.

 

[amberlea434]

So, because she's never submitted any bills to him and he's never asked for them, he's not required to pay for them? Keep in mind, though, that he does receive EOB's from his insurance company, but never any bills from the ex or doctors telling him how much he owes. And it IS stated in his order that he pay half of all necessary uninsured medical bills...

 

[CJane]

So, because she's never submitted any bills to him and he's never asked for them, he's not required to pay for them? Keep in mind, though, that he does receive EOB's from his insurance company, but never any bills from the ex or doctors telling him how much he owes. And it IS stated in his order that he pay half of all necessary uninsured medical bills...

It depends on EXACTLY what the order says. But, if it's something like this:

"All uncovered medical expenses including co-pays shall be split equally between the parties."

And there is no provision for the bills actually being submitted in a timely manner or a deadline for him to pay by, then it's a sort of loophole.

If the order is being modified anyway, it wouldn't hurt for him to have language added that reads more like this:

"All medical expenses for the minor child not covered by insurance shall be split equally between mother and father. Such expenses shall be submitted to the other parent within 10 days of receipt of notice of payment due, and shall be paid within 30 days."

That way, he knows what he owes, and if she fails to submit the bills to him, he's off the hook.

 

[amberlea434]

Yeah, I thought of that, too. The papers are very vague when it comes to medical expenses. It says almost exactly what you stated. So, he wouldn't be able to argue that he shouldn't have to pay them because she doesn't send them to him, right? So, I guess that brings me back to my original question. Could we tell her that his child support overpayments were actually for the medical bills and leave it at that?

 

[CJane]

Yeah, I thought of that, too. The papers are very vague when it comes to medical expenses. It says almost exactly what you stated. So, he wouldn't be able to argue that he shouldn't have to pay them because she doesn't send them to him, right? So, I guess that brings me back to my original question. Could we tell her that his child support overpayments were actually for the medical bills and leave it at that?

If there is nothing spelled out in the order regarding exactly how each party is to be notified and providing a structure for payment, it could EASILY be argued (and was in my case) that dad COULDN'T pay the bills because he wasn't aware they existed.

But he CANNOT argue that they weren't provided to him and so he didn't pay them, but he overpaid child support to pay them. See how that doesn't make sense?

He may as well just forget the 'overpayment' because he's likely to end up w/CS being raised anyway as soon as mom gets mad.

 

[amberlea434]

Yeah, I understand. We're just trying to find a way to go ahead and compensate for those bills that we KNOW she's going to throw in his face as soon as he lowers the child support. We were planning on modifying the child support amount, anyway, so we're not worried about that. We just thought we'd go ahead and pay the ordered amount for the next few months. So, is he going to get in trouble for not paying those medical bills? Or are they just going to put those as an arrearage...

 

[CJane]

So, is he going to get in trouble for not paying those medical bills? Or are they just going to put those as an arrearage...

I cannot tell you with certainty what a judge would decide. However, I can tell you that IN MY CASE IN MO the judge told my ex that it was a wash. If he CHOSE not to present me w/bills for medical care he sought for the child, particularly if he sought such care w/out my knowledge or consent, then he could not later claim that I had refused to pay the bills. That any REASONABLE person would present anything requiring reimbursement w/in 10 days, and going beyond that was simply not acceptable.

So, IF the judge in your fiance's case was similar to the judge in my case, it's likely that he would neither get in trouble nor be assigned an arrearage based on the facts you've presented.

 

[amberlea434]

Yeah, I see. Obviously, there's no way to know which way a judge will lean, so that's a HUGE risk to take. We're probably better off just leaving the CS as is and modifying it whenever we get the visitations modified. We will definitely be putting in those provisions you suggested about the medical bills so there'll be no confusion in the future. You've been a great help, thank you so much.

 

[amberlea434]

Hello, I have another question. My fiance and his ex are adamant about not going into court to modify the order (which is GREAT). She's perfectly happy with the CS amount he's paying right now and has no problem with him changing it based on the income of his future job. CJane, I know you said before to get the visitations set up and worry about the CS later whenever he establishes a job, but I'm wondering if this would be okay to state in the order... If he states in writing that he would continue to pay $600/month in CS, but as soon as his employment is established, the CS would reflect his new income (21% of his income, which his ex is fine with and is not interested in using the Income Shares Model) and that amount would be the set CS amount until either of them decide to petition to modify the order again. Would this be wise to put in the order or would it leave room for any kind of loopholes?

And, also, if we DID decide to wait on the CS agreement 'til after we move, as you suggested, would we have to go back to TN to settle it? Or could we do it from the comfort of our new home in LA by phone, mail, etc.?