Bad replies

[Ozark_Sophist]

Don't brag Jumbo, I had a coworker who had 52 tickets by age 21 and all were taken care of in court so none went on his record. Still does not make what he was doing right. If you violate the law, you should suffer the consequences. And the consequences could be deadly.

For example, people complain 25mph speed limit in residential is to slow and feel 30mph is good to go. But at 30mph, pedestrian/vehicular accidents are 30-percent more likely to result in a fatality. So continue to speed because of your 100-percent success rate in overturning tickets, but be sure when your illegal, excessive speed results in an injury or fatality to expect not only a conviction, but also the guilt in knowing your lack of societal care destroys a family forever.

By the way, the "but everyone's doing it" is not a legal defence. The vehicle code doesn't excuse exceeded legal, posted limits, even if everyone is speeding.

 

[Jim_bo]

I think people have a duty to fight the state's awesome powers when they are used improperly. I think most traffic tickets are properly given. And, while I decry the overcriminalization of society, I accept democracy and submit to all the laws, even the very silly ones. I try to argue against the silly ones to change people's opinion on the matter and hope they tell someone and so on until the will of the people will overcome the wants of a motivated minority--which is the source of most of our democracy's silliest laws.

An economic problem with traffic laws is that, while the laws were most probably initiated for good reason, the reality is is that it is now a source of income for government. While a legimate argument is had as to whether this makes the government give incentives to increase the amount of violations caught for revenue (I think it does, Carl feels differently.), no argument can be made that government creates hurdles and streamlines proceedure so that the maximal income can be derived from the recorded violation. Going to court creates the need for additional courts, personnel, attendence of government employees and other costs and reduces the income derived from the enforcement of the law. This cheeses off the government.

Bottom line, if you are innocent, I think you have a duty to fight it as this forces government to adhere to the basic understanding of US citizens that We the People establish the government and must oversee our creation. I understand how some who have this duty feel the hurdles created to increase revenue are so high so as to be not worth the time or effort to do that duty. Cost/benefit is always a calculation of a rational person. For those who are not innocent, the question gets more complex and is beyond the space allotted for me to give my position.

I think I agree with everything you say here with the exception that I think most traffic tickets are NOT properly given. CA places a very high burden on itself with traffic violations. Other states do not get the luxury of a Trial by Written Declaration. I don't know of any other state that such stringent speed trap laws, etc. Hence, the invention of traffic school. The state knows the average driver will likely look at that cost/benefit analysis and most often opt for a payoff rather than go to court.... even if the state has NOT met its burden. That's why I think traffic school is legalized extortion.

Jimbo

 

[Jim_bo]

A criminal giving advice to other lawbreakers will never be accept here.

Nor will idiots who look at people participating in the judicial system as criminals.

 

[Jim_bo]

the more you respond the more your ignorance of the law is exposed.

I would say quit while you're ahead but that point is long since past.

If you don't have something constructive to add to this legitimate conversation.. why don't you just STFU?

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Jumbo, by your own admission you are a criminal. You never said you weren't violating the law--you just challenge the validity of the law. Why wait until you get a ticket. Challenge the law through the legislative process.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

If you don't have something constructive to add to this legitimate conversation.. why don't you just STFU?

Now that's good advice. Too bad you didn't take it before proving your ignorance.

 

[mlane58]

All this over a traffic ticket-------GEEZ Bo Bo get a life and put those heated energies into something a bit more constructive.

 

[Jim_bo]

Don't brag Jumbo, I had a coworker who had 52 tickets by age 21 and all were taken care of in court so none went on his record. Still does not make what he was doing right. If you violate the law, you should suffer the consequences. And the consequences could be deadly.

For example, people complain 25mph speed limit in residential is to slow and feel 30mph is good to go. But at 30mph, pedestrian/vehicular accidents are 30-percent more likely to result in a fatality. So continue to speed because of your 100-percent success rate in overturning tickets, but be sure when your illegal, excessive speed results in an injury or fatality to expect not only a conviction, but also the guilt in knowing your lack of societal care destroys a family forever.

By the way, the "but everyone's doing it" is not a legal defence. The vehicle code doesn't excuse exceeded legal, posted limits, even if everyone is speeding.

With a screen name like "Ozark_Sophist", I don't think I'd be making sport of other's screen names.

First of all... you don't know what the tickets I have beaten were for, so your judgement is a bit premature.

Second, I have been acquitted in all cases. What does that say for the validity of the charges?

Finally, I understand the "everyone's doing it" defense is not legitimate in court. But, if you have spent any time on a major CA highway, you will quickly understand that driving the speed limit is much more of a hazard than going with the flow of traffic.

Jimbo.

 

[Jim_bo]

Jumbo, by your own admission you are a criminal. You never said you weren't violating the law--you just challenge the validity of the law. Why wait until you get a ticket. Challenge the law through the legislative process.

Hillbilly_Sophist,

I have never admitted I was a criiminal. I don't think a traffic violation makes one a criminal, but even if it did, my success rate in court demonstrates very nicely that I am not a criminal.

I don't challenge the legitimacy of the laws. It is just the opposite. YOU challenge the legitimacy of the laws. It is the laws that are used to win in court. Therefore, if YOU or the STATE doesn't like the laws, then YOU should change them.

Jimbo

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Sorry, I don't buy into that "cops could be solving REAL crimes if they weren't giving me a ticket" routine. I didn't tell the cop to pull me over. This was the day before Christmas on Hwy 395 and this guy was simply out "making a presence". If you have ever driven on 395 (or most any other major highway in CA), you'll agree that if you simply drive the speed limit, you will become a hazard as you will be impeding the flow of traffic ( which is a violation of the VC, by the way).

Jumbo, LE stopped you because you were violating the law whether or not he was there "making a presence" or not. By your OWN admission, I called you a criminal, so I don't care if you have always been acquitted. You are still a law breaker.

 

[Jim_bo]

Now that's good advice. Too bad you didn't take it before proving your ignorance.

How old are you??? Six???

If you don't have the intelectual capacity to participate in a legitimate conversation, the just sit on the sidelines and watch.

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Proud hillbilly

As a youngster, I had one of those self-contained wagons and went out west to Califlower, but found Green Acres is the place to be.

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Jumbo, you obviously have a lower intellectual capacity than BB because you had to resort to profanity.

Profanity is the feebel attempt of a week mind to express itself forcibly.

 

[seniorjudge]

Proud hillbilly

As a youngster, I had one of those self-contained wagons and went out west to Califlower, but found Green Acres is the place to be.

My neck is purty red too!

 

[Jim_bo]

All this over a traffic ticket-------GEEZ Bo Bo get a life and put those heated energies into something a bit more constructive.

These heated energies are not geared towards a traffic ticket. They are geared towards people with the opinion that a citizen providing a legitimate defense in court against a charge brought by the state is somehow an unmanly or unpatriotic act.