Multimillionaire And His Seven Figure Deception

[stan21]

What is the name of your state? CA

A multimillionaire based in Newport CA, runs Internet marketing course.
His guarantee states, that after 26 weeks of the education (webinars, tutorials, etc.), the attendee will have a seven figure business. The course fee was approx. $11,000.
Some 32 weeks later, no end in sight, no personal access. Meantime, to stave off the outflow of disenchanted students, and prevent them from asking for a refund, he changes the guarantee terms. This all on top of the frequently made, and broken promises (all documented). From the 50 original students, there are only about 25 left. Most of them asked and was refused the reimbursement.
What would be the most effective way to stop this person's deceitful practices, and receive a refund of the fees paid?

Best regards,
Stan

 

[galv]

What is the name of your state? CA

A multimillionaire based in Newport CA, runs Internet marketing course.
His guarantee states, that after 26 weeks of the education (webinars, tutorials, etc.), the attendee will have a seven figure business. The course fee was approx. $11,000.
Some 32 weeks later, no end in sight, no personal access. Meantime, to stave off the outflow of disenchanted students, and prevent them from asking for a refund, he changes the guarantee terms. This all on top of the frequently made, and broken promises (all documented). From the 50 original students, there are only about 25 left. Most of them asked and was refused the reimbursement.
What would be the most effective way to stop this person's deceitful practices, and receive a refund of the fees paid?

Best regards,
Stan

Now you know why he's a "multimillionaire." Although, without access to his financial records, you're going by hearsay or what he claims he makes.

Did you or whomever purchased this "service" read over the terms before giving up money? Or was it a spur-of-the-moment thing where nothing was thought or read over.

These get-rich-quick schemes are ridiculous and anyone who gives in to them is also ridiculous. If it sounds too good to be true, IT PROBABLY IS!!!

Advice: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[stan21]

In reply...

You've made at least two unreasonable assumptions:
-That he's not a multimillionaire. He is; many times over.
-That this was a spurr of the moment action, signing up for the program. It was not. His presenttation and credentials were spotless. Regretably, the reality proved to be different.

If you're not familiar with the Internet marketing scene, you may find it difficult to understand the case...

Stan

 

[tranquility]

A guarantee is a contractual agreement. If you do your part, the other part must come true. If not, you have a breach of contract. Sue for the breach.

I would love to see the specific guarantee in writing. Not what you remember, but a word for word scrivining of the guarantee from a written source given you by him which you relied on as part of his bargained for detriment. Even then there are other issues, this is only the first hurdle.

However, I bet there are a couple of problems. First, is whether the "guarantee" is a guarantee at all. Most are cleverly worded to make you think it has a certain meaning which it does not. Second, I bet this guy set up the school as a seperate entity. You can only go after the school's assets, and not his, unless you can breach the corporate veil.

If you're sure you had a Guarantee, see an attorney who can advise further.

 

[stan21]

In reply...

As mentioned earlier, all the written proof (and plenty of it) has been well documented.
Here's the part of his original guarantee:

"4. THE REFUND POLICY. If you are unhappy with the program, and wish to receive a refund, our requirement is very simple, and more than fair. You must have at least participated in, and completed the full 26 week training, including your project assignments. If that minimal condition has been met, you may, within six months of the conclusion of the program, receive a FULL refund.
And, we'll even go one better, as you shall not only receive a FULL refund at that point, but you shall also receive an offer of collaboration, to help you achieve your financial goals. "

The wording was (unilaterally, without notice) substantially changed, towards the end of the program, to prevent people from asking for a refund.

The guarantee was of a personal nature (there's no "school" at question, just a person).

Here's another important part of the "Letter of Understanding" that contains the refund policy:

"8. GOVERNING LAW: This Agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance with the internal laws of the State of California, excluding that body of laws known as choice of law or conflict of laws. Subject to the provisions of this Section, all disputes, controversies or claims arising out of or relating to this Agreement will be resolved through mandatory binding arbitration conducted in Los Angeles, California, before J.A.M.S./ENDISPUTE or its successor ("JAMS") pursuant to the United States Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. Section 1, et seq. (the "Act"); and (iii) this Agreement. The arbitration will be conducted in accordance with the provisions of J.A.M.S.'s Streamlined Arbitration Rules and Procedures in effect at the time of filing of the demand for arbitration (the "JAMS Rules"), subject to the provisions of this Section. Each party shall equally share the cost of such arbitration regardless of the outcome."

In all, it's easy to say "Sue for the breach...".
I'm located in Australia, about 50% of the group is located outside of the US.
None of us is able to put more money; even though it means that the truth and justice is denied.
Still, I for once have a substantial (written) body of eveidence, showing his deception; that would show to any jury where the truth is.

Stan

 

[justalayman]

but a word for word scrivining of the guarantee.

a scrivining?

I would settle for a photocopy.

Who talks like this? A scrivening?

Your a hoot Tranq. I mean that in a good way.

 

[davezan]

I'm located in Australia, about 50% of the group is located outside of the US.
None of us is able to put more money; even though it means that the truth and justice is denied.
Still, I for once have a substantial (written) body of eveidence, showing his deception; that would show to any jury where the truth is.

Stan

Then I suggest you retain an attorney in your area to review any available facts. You're not
going to get qualified legal advice in an online forum, especially one that caters to US law
only.

 

[tranquility]

In all, it's easy to say "Sue for the breach...".

Two things. First, I was wrong. You need to demand arbitration per the agreement. Second, what were you looking for? No one on the list has his secret passwords where you can download the amount you think you are owed from his account. Nor does anyone know of any other secret methods. Generally, I recommend asking him for the money, threatening him (in a legal, take you to arbitration way) for the money and finally sue/go to arbitration for the money. Then you go through all the effort to try to collect the money.

Who talks like this? A scrivening?

Well, so often we ask people to hold up the agreement to the monitor. I was just trying to get a word for word example of the promise. (Which, upon review, seems somehow different from a "guarantee" stating "that after 26 weeks of the education (webinars, tutorials, etc.), the attendee will have a seven figure business.")

 

[justalayman]

Well, so often we ask people to hold up the agreement to the monitor. I was just trying to get a word for word example of the promise. (Which, upon review, seems somehow different from a "guarantee" stating "that after 26 weeks of the education (webinars, tutorials, etc.), the attendee will have a seven figure business.")

Oh I know what you were after Tranq. I just got a kick out of anybody reffering to a scrivener rather than asking for a verbatim copy of the contract or such.

I don't hear many folks talk of scribes and scriveners. Just struck me funny.

BTW stan; if this is part of the original contract, it cannot be changed unless there are other entries within the contract that allow such changes or they AND you agreed to a change.

I'm not sure what you mean when you state "32 weeks later, no end in site". To me, that tends to infer the class is lsting more than the origianl 26 weeks.

If not, I would suggest asking for your money back if #4 is not satisfied and it would appear you only have 6 months from the end of the 26 weeks to initiate a request.

 

[stan21]

Thank you, "justalayman" for your helpful posts.

Yes, the changes to terms of guarantee were done by him alone, at about 20 th week, to make it very difficult for people to ask for a refund. This was never made public, and I've only discovered it by comparing both documents.
The above is just one of many dishonest actions, false promises, etc.

"I'm not sure what you mean when you state "32 weeks later, no end in site". "
What I meant is, that he still carries on with his program (for those who choose to stay on). The conclusion of the program, and the seven figure business he guaranteed, are not near the eventuation, after 32 weeks - i.e. 6 weeks later. One important reason being, that he's heavily involved in spawning other business opportunities being offered to us for purchase.
To shed some light on his intentions: he openly admitted to us, that if not for the potential gains, he wouldn't bother with creating a program, charging only a $11,000 fee. He stated, that he charges $8,000 per hour of consultation. According to him, the potential gains are: he hopes to find possible joint venture partners (sharing business ideas with him), and he may recruit some of us, most skilled, to work for him.

All my correspondence to him ends up with his "support" staff. My emails firstly requesting a refund, than demanding it within 7 days, were answered by one of his side kickers, who stated: "He and I get together, and will decide what to do with your demand". That was 12 days ago, and no answer.

His "Letter of Understanding" that contains the refund policy, obligates me to seek the resolution through JAMS. To even fill in the claim, would cost me $1,000 and there will be another costs...

Do I have to follow the JAMS' way, or are there other avenues?
I do appreciate, that law is expensive. Am I naive in thinking, that the truth and justice are freely available?

Stan

 

[You Are Guilty]

You don't "have" to file the claim with JAMS. You can technically file it in whatever CA court would have jurisdiction, and your millionaire buddy would have to oppose the complaint with a motion to dismiss due to the arbitration clause. Odds are if they timely made such a motion it would be granted, but you might have a shot at convincing the judge to void the arbitration clause (a long shot, but that's better than no shot).

Incidentally, the more you describe this "school", the more my "Scam Radar" goes off.

 

[CraigFL]

Things that stand out to me....

1. Arbitration clause -- My experience, although limited, is that you will be required to try arbitration first. (Personal opinion-- arbitritation is usually asked for by the person that is creating the problem because they want to take it out of the hands of the court(judge) and try to limit their liability). In any case-- YOU should try to pick the arbitrator, third person, so you're sure they're reputable.

2. It seems the contract only allows refunds after the course is over. It may be a 26 week course but not completed in 26 weeks of elapsed time since 32 weeks have gone by already. Make sure you do your "project assignments" as they are a part of completing the course.

A final comment --- Those that can... DO, those that can't TEACH. Where does he fit?

 

[moburkes]

As mentioned earlier, all the written proof (and plenty of it) has been well documented.
Here's the part of his original guarantee:

"4. THE REFUND POLICY. If you are unhappy with the program, and wish to receive a refund, our requirement is very simple, and more than fair. You must have at least participated in, and completed the full 26 week training, including your project assignments. If that minimal condition has been met, you may, within six months of the conclusion of the program, receive a FULL refund.
And, we'll even go one better, as you shall not only receive a FULL refund at that point, but you shall also receive an offer of collaboration, to help you achieve your financial goals. "

The wording was (unilaterally, without notice) substantially changed, towards the end of the program, to prevent people from asking for a refund.

The guarantee was of a personal nature (there's no "school" at question, just a person).

Here's another important part of the "Letter of Understanding" that contains the refund policy:

"8. GOVERNING LAW: This Agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance with the internal laws of the State of California, excluding that body of laws known as choice of law or conflict of laws. Subject to the provisions of this Section, all disputes, controversies or claims arising out of or relating to this Agreement will be resolved through mandatory binding arbitration conducted in Los Angeles, California, before J.A.M.S./ENDISPUTE or its successor ("JAMS") pursuant to the United States Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. Section 1, et seq. (the "Act"); and (iii) this Agreement. The arbitration will be conducted in accordance with the provisions of J.A.M.S.'s Streamlined Arbitration Rules and Procedures in effect at the time of filing of the demand for arbitration (the "JAMS Rules"), subject to the provisions of this Section. Each party shall equally share the cost of such arbitration regardless of the outcome."

In all, it's easy to say "Sue for the breach...".
I'm located in Australia, about 50% of the group is located outside of the US.
None of us is able to put more money; even though it means that the truth and justice is denied.
Still, I for once have a substantial (written) body of eveidence, showing his deception; that would show to any jury where the truth is.

Stan

You spent $11,000 for an internet course that PROMISED riches?

 

[tranquility]

He doesn't want to sue or go to arbitration. He wants something else. The OP is in Australia and doesn't want to spend any more money on this. He wants something other than a lawsuit on an international contract made over the internet with choice of law and arbitration provisions. I can't blame him as, even if the bottom line facts are absolutely in his favor, he still is going to have a huge hassle to get a judgment--let alone his money. That's why he wants something else. Does anyone have an idea as to what that could be?

(Just out of curiosity, does this internet marketing class have anything to do with sending out mass e-mails? Perhaps targeted in some way like age, sex or location? If so, put me on the list as not needing Viagra, Hoodia, a change in insurance, the best whores in my city, a new job or the ability to work from home. And, if possible, let the people know I'm not that trustworthy and shouldn't be allowed to transfer money into my account to retransfer out after keeping a small fee for myself. Also, I'm pretty sure I don't have anyone in Spain who would leave me an inheritance.)

 

[moburkes]

(Just out of curiosity, does this internet marketing class have anything to do with sending out mass e-mails? Perhaps targeted in some way like age, sex or location? If so, put me on the list as not needing Viagra, Hoodia, a change in insurance, the best whores in my city, a new job or the ability to work from home. And, if possible, let the people know I'm not that trustworthy and shouldn't be allowed to transfer money into my account to retransfer out after keeping a small fee for myself. Also, I'm pretty sure I don't have anyone in Spain who would leave me an inheritance.)