Parent incarcerated & Grandparents have the kids.

[Arkseven]

What is the name of your state? KY

Our daughter is divorced w/ 2 kids. She recently (and unforturnatly) is incarcerated for a 2nd offense DUI for 30 days. The father of the kids does have visitation and pays child support on occasion.

We have the Grandkids in our possession and the father is not capable (lives in a 1 bedroom appartment, nor does he desire) to raise the kids. However, he lives an hour and a half away and demands that we meet him half way to take the kids for his visitation. At this point we are refusing to bow to his demands and have told him he is free to come pick-up the children at anytime for visitation but we will not drive halfway to his house. (For some reason our daughter and he had come to this arrangement verbally).

Q.1. Should we participate in this demand from him?

We have POA from our daughter to handle all matters pertaining to the children (GENERAL POWER OF ATTORNEY THAT INCLUDES SPECIAL POWER OF ATTORNEY (IN LOCO PARENTIS) POWERS) and she has custody of the kids from the divorce.

Q.2. Do we have authority to enforce child support aggreement and receive the child support monies from the non-custodial parent? Is he obligated to provide child support to the Grandparents that have possession of the children?

Q.3 What legal rights do we have at this point, say IF the non-custodial parent decides he is angry with us for NOT meeting his demands (as described above) and does not return the children from a weekend visit.

The children need a stable enviroment, and we have told our daughter that she will not take the kids until/unless she gets her life together. She is displaying regret and remorse for her actions at this point and has assured us that she is serious about getting the counsel necessary to provide a stable enviorment. However, we as her parents are standing firm with a tough love mentality that she is going to have to prove herself, as this is a second offense, obvisiously not learning from the first DUI.

I might add that we are Christians, our 23 yr old daughter has fell into the wrong crowd on the weekends but will still attend church with us on Sundays. Our main focus is providing a stable loving enviroment for our Grandkids. We still have two teenage kids ourselves at home and could use the finiancial support in raising two additional school age and preschool aged kids, besides it is the obligation of BOTH parents to provide support for the children they bring into the world; meaning our daughter will be told that she will also support the children finiancially after she obtains another job and gets her life in order. Even IF she has to make small monetary payments in the future repaying her part of her obligation.

Q.4 Any suggestions in dealing with this type of situation?

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state? KY

Our daughter is divorced w/ 2 kids. She recently (and unforturnatly) is incarcerated for a 2nd offense DUI for 30 days. The father of the kids does have visitation and pays child support on occasion.

We have the Grandkids in our possession and the father is not capable (lives in a 1 bedroom appartment, nor does he desire) to raise the kids. However, he lives an hour and a half away and demands that we meet him half way to take the kids for his visitation. At this point we are refusing to bow to his demands and have told him he is free to come pick-up the children at anytime for visitation but we will not drive halfway to his house. (For some reason our daughter and he had come to this arrangement verbally).

Q.1. Should we participate in this demand from him?

We have POA from our daughter to handle all matters pertaining to the children (GENERAL POWER OF ATTORNEY THAT INCLUDES SPECIAL POWER OF ATTORNEY (IN LOCO PARENTIS) POWERS) and she has custody of the kids from the divorce.

Q.2. Do we have authority to enforce child support aggreement and receive the child support monies from the non-custodial parent? Is he obligated to provide child support to the Grandparents that have possession of the children?

Q.3 What legal rights do we have at this point, say IF the non-custodial parent decides he is angry with us for NOT meeting his demands (as described above) and does not return the children from a weekend visit.

The children need a stable enviroment, and we have told our daughter that she will not take the kids until/unless she gets her life together. She is displaying regret and remorse for her actions at this point and has assured us that she is serious about getting the counsel necessary to provide a stable enviorment. However, we as her parents are standing firm with a tough love mentality that she is going to have to prove herself, as this is a second offense, obvisiously not learning from the first DUI.

I might add that we are Christians, our 23 yr old daughter has fell into the wrong crowd on the weekends but will still attend church with us on Sundays. Our main focus is providing a stable loving enviroment for our Grandkids. We still have two teenage kids ourselves at home and could use the finiancial support in raising two additional school age and preschool aged kids, besides it is the obligation of BOTH parents to provide support for the children they bring into the world; meaning our daughter will be told that she will also support the children finiancially after she obtains another job and gets her life in order. Even IF she has to make small monetary payments in the future repaying her part of her obligation.

Q.4 Any suggestions in dealing with this type of situation?

You have NO rights to the child support nor from preventing dad from keeping HIS children since your daughter is in jail. It doesn't matter if you attend church every day nor if your grandkids do. YOU ARE NOT LEGALLY ENTITLED TO ANYTHING. Dad on the other hand should move to establish custody (doesn't matter about his one bedroom apartment) and immediately stop child support since your sainted daughter is in jail. You also have no legal right to prevent your daughter from taking her children once she gets out of jail. Why do you think you are perfect? After all you raised a child who ended up with TWO DUIs and jail time.

 

[jbowman]

This is just my opinion but.... if mom and dad had a verbal agreement to meet each other halfway, although you may not HAVE to do it--it seems it would be the right thing to do. Isn't life hard enough for these kids without their mom, why make it harder for them to see their dad???? Obviously he has an interest in his children. It seems very selfish of you NOT to drive halfway to meet him so your grandchildren can spend quality time with their father.

 

[Arkseven]

Dad on the other hand should move to establish custody (doesn't matter about his one bedroom apartment) and immediately stop child support since your sainted daughter is in jail. You also have no legal right to prevent your daughter from taking her children once she gets out of jail. Why do you think you are perfect? After all you raised a child who ended up with TWO DUIs and jail time.

Thank you for your reply, however the Grandkids Dad could not take custody without a court order from a judge. Besides he does not want the responsibility of two kids.

Even though our daughter is in jail for DUI it still does not necessarily mean that a judge will find her an unfit parent.

Nowhere in my post did I indicate that our daughter was "sainted", neither are we "perfect", however I am sure that after 19 years of Military Service and multiple combat deployments away from my family it has impacted on their lives, even though we tried to maintain a positive enviroment for our kids when I was at home.

Yes, we raised a child that grew into an adult that made some independant adult (bad)decisions that she is / will pay for. As a matter of fact, our intent is for her to repay any finiancial obligations/debts that we incur while helping her through this.

I could have posted a $3K cash bond and got her out, but we didn't because she has to learn the error of her ways. While it was one of the hardest thing to do, that is see your child behind bars, we allowed her to stay there BECAUSE we love her; that's "tough love".

Again thank you for you input, but I believe your response has little value and will taken in the context in which it was given.

Again, I might add that we are Christians, and am very glad to let everyone know this. This I will not be apoligetic for, we are not perfect by no means, but loudly proclaim for all to see that we are Christians; and as a Christian our sins are forgiven.

 

[Arkseven]

Isn't life hard enough for these kids without their mom, why make it harder for them to see their dad???? Obviously he has an interest in his children. It seems very selfish of you NOT to drive halfway to meet him so your grandchildren can spend quality time with their father.

Thank you for the reply. I agree that in the best interest of the children, we could drive 45 minutes one way to meet with our ex-son-in-law. And he is a good person, a little bit of a quick temper but overall a good person. We have meet him once half way (last week) but feel that it should be part of HIS responsibility to come pick-up the kids since he decided to move 1 1/2 hours away. We want to ensure that a good repore be maintained with good communications between our daughter and ex-son-in-law.

He is a single young man (now) and the kids seems not to be his top priority (unfortunately) and we as the Grandparents focus is providing a stable enviroment. Both parents are more than happy for us to raise THEIR kids at this point in their lives. We could force him to take the kids but we honestly feel this would not be in the best interest of the kids.

Part of the main issue is; these two adults brought these children into this world and SHOULD be made to (at least) support the kids finiancially. Idealy, they would support them lovingly, emotionally and finiancially.

But, as you stated; it is hard enough on the kids without their Mom and spending anytime with their Dad can be emotionally good for them. Considering this, we may make the 1 1/2 round trip and "suck it up" for the kids sake next weekend (if he ask).

Thanks again for your input.

 

[jbowman]

Thank you for the reply. I agree that in the best interest of the children, we could drive 45 minutes one way to meet with our ex-son-in-law. And he is a good person, a little bit of a quick temper but overall a good person. We have meet him once half way (last week) but feel that it should be part of HIS responsibility to come pick-up the kids since he decided to move 1 1/2 hours away. We want to ensure that a good repore be maintained with good communications between our daughter and ex-son-in-law.

If it was not in a court order that dad drive the entire way AND the parents agreed to meet each other, I think, it is now your duty to honor the agreement since you agreed to take over the responsibility of these kids.

He is a single young man (now) and the kids seems not to be his top priority (unfortunately) and we as the Grandparents focus is providing a stable enviroment. Both parents are more than happy for us to raise THEIR kids at this point in their lives. We could force him to take the kids but we honestly feel this would not be in the best interest of the kids.

And your daughter is a single young woman now---and I hate to say it, but the kids dont seem to be her top priority if she is out driving drunk. Making your children a priority in your life means thinking about the consequences of your actions BEFORE you do the deed. Has Dad said that he does not want his kids?

Part of the main issue is; these two adults brought these children into this world and SHOULD be made to (at least) support the kids finiancially. Idealy, they would support them lovingly, emotionally and finiancially.

But, as you stated; it is hard enough on the kids without their Mom and spending anytime with their Dad can be emotionally good for them. Considering this, we may make the 1 1/2 round trip and "suck it up" for the kids sake next weekend (if he ask).

Thanks again for your input.

I think "sucking it up" would be a great idea--as it is your responsibility to do so.

 

[Arkseven]

sucking it up

"If it was not in a court order that dad drive the entire way AND the parents agreed to meet each other, I think, it is now your duty to honor the agreement since you agreed to take over the responsibility of these kids."

It is not a court order and WE (the Grandparents) did not make this agreement but two adults (daughter & ex-son-in-law) did. The agreement was between them and not us. I respectfully disagree with you contention that it is somehow OUR "responsibility". Incidentally, we are providing a stable home for the kids, BECAUSE neither parent is willing nor able to at this time, there is no other choice other than turning to a Social Services, in which would be out of the question since we both love the kids and am able to provide a home.

"And your daughter is a single young woman now---and I hate to say it, but the kids dont seem to be her top priority if she is out driving drunk. Making your children a priority in your life means thinking about the consequences of your actions BEFORE you do the deed. Has Dad said that he does not want his kids?"

I agree that with our daughter the kids don't seem to be HER top priority either, and this is very sad for both of them to be this way.
The kids Dad has said that he cannot be responsible for the kids right now because he has no way to care for them and work too. I personally think and feel that when it comes to the kids you make a way. just as I did in raising 5 children. Our belief is you make the way, however difficult, the kids must be priority.

We are deeply sadded that one of our 3 grown kids has taken this road, but have hope and faith that she will change her life for the better, soon!

 

[IrishLady47]

Although I totally agree with the "tough love" as it pertains to not paying the daughter's bond and letting her face the consequences of her actions, that does not negate the fact that legally you have very limited options as far as your grandchildren.

Yes, both parents should support their children. As of right now, the only court order is for the NCP (father) to pay support to the CP (mother). You do not have legal custody of the grandchildren and, legally--not morally, neither the mother or father have to pay support to you for taking care of their children.

OhioGal is perfectly correct in pointing out that there is absolutely nothing to stop your daughter from taking her children wherever she likes once she is out of jail. The POA can be revoked by her at anytime. As you point out yourself-the DUI will not by itself lead a judge to declare her an unfit parent.

Therefore it would seem the best course of action once your daughter is released from jail is to work together with her on establishing a good environment for the children. SHE needs to get a job and starting caring for her children--financially and otherwise. SHE needs to file contempt charges if the father does not pay his support as court ordered.

Legally, you cannot force her or the father to pay support to you UNLESS you get legal guardianship or custody of your grandchildren by court order. And, you will have to either prove the parent(s) unfit or gain their agreement for custody/guardianship.

So be careful about dictating what everyone else needs to do--you don't have the legal authority to back it up at this time. Right now--legally speaking--you are voluntary, unpaid full-time babysitters. And, if you continue to do that after your daughter's release without a specific plan for her to fully assume her responsibilites as the custodial parent--you're just enabling her to be irresponsible.

 

[nextwife]

I agree that with our daughter the kids don't seem to be HER top priority either, and this is very sad for both of them to be this way.
The kids Dad has said that he cannot be responsible for the kids right now because he has no way to care for them and work too. I personally think and feel that when it comes to the kids you make a way. just as I did in raising 5 children. Our belief is you make the way, however difficult, the kids must be priority.

We are deeply sadded that one of our 3 grown kids has taken this road, but have hope and faith that she will change her life for the better, soon!

So was your daughter working full time and raising the kids without CS, the way you expect dad to do?

 

[Arkseven]

So was your daughter working full time and raising the kids without CS, the way you expect dad to do?

Yes, our daughter was working full time and a part - time job and maintaining a residence nearby, (we babysit free during work hours and $2 hr for any "free time not at work") she received about half of the child support that she should have gotten monthly.

Yes, I would expect the kids Dad to be just as willing to raise the children he help bring into this world. Should there be any other lesser expectation for a parent, whether a Mom or Dad?

 

[jbowman]

So was your daughter working full time and raising the kids without CS, the way you expect dad to do?

I think what she is saying is that Dad is perfectly happy with the situation as is--he's got the full time babysitters and does not have to put much into it. Both parents in this situation pretty much suck, as far as Im concerned.

 

[Arkseven]

Although I totally agree with the "tough love" as it pertains to not paying the daughter's bond and letting her face the consequences of her actions, that does not negate the fact that legally you have very limited options as far as your grandchildren.

Yes, both parents should support their children. As of right now, the only court order is for the NCP (father) to pay support to the CP (mother). You do not have legal custody of the grandchildren and, legally--not morally, neither the mother or father have to pay support to you for taking care of their children.

I thought as much, IMO parents should be held reponsible in some manner, even if finiancially is the only means of responsibility we (the laws) can enforce on parents when they determine that raising their kids is too much of a burden.
I guess "morral stand" is the only recourse for Grandparents that are "forced" into these situations?

OhioGal is perfectly correct in pointing out that there is absolutely nothing to stop your daughter from taking her children wherever she likes once she is out of jail. The POA can be revoked by her at anytime. As you point out yourself-the DUI will not by itself lead a judge to declare her an unfit parent.

The children returning to the care and custody of parents is 100% the goal, however we want to ensure their well being with parents that are 100% committed to putting the children first in their lives. Situations like this can be very fustrating and trying.

Therefore it would seem the best course of action once your daughter is released from jail is to work together with her on establishing a good environment for the children. SHE needs to get a job and starting caring for her children--financially and otherwise. SHE needs to file contempt charges if the father does not pay his support as court ordered.

Legally, you cannot force her or the father to pay support to you UNLESS you get legal guardianship or custody of your grandchildren by court order. And, you will have to either prove the parent(s) unfit or gain their agreement for custody/guardianship.

So be careful about dictating what everyone else needs to do--you don't have the legal authority to back it up at this time. Right now--legally speaking--you are voluntary, unpaid full-time babysitters. And, if you continue to do that after your daughter's release without a specific plan for her to fully assume her responsibilites as the custodial parent--you're just enabling her to be irresponsible.

Thank you for an intelligent response, and it was very useful. We are very willing to be voluntary, unpaid full-time babysitters for now as it is the in the best interest for the kids.

You are very correct in outlining a "specific plan for her to fully assume her responsibilites as the custodial parent" and that is what we are working with her, even now in outlining that plan. Again, thank you for your response and God Bless.

 

[IrishLady47]

It is a very difficult situation. Good luck to all involved.

We are very willing to be voluntary, unpaid full-time babysitters for now as it is the in the best interest for the kids..

I'm glad you realize and accept your current legal status. I'm surprised as one of your questions in your initial post was how to get the NCP father to pay child support directly to you.

Anyway, as I said above-good luck. And, please keep in mind--no matter how much you love these kids--your DAUGHTER is the parent with legal custody. Until and unless that changes--it will be her call on how the children are raised. It really won't matter if you feel she hasn't proven her 100% commitment. Just something to think about. Being firm is certainly good--being firm and tolerant may be even better (not legal advice--observations from other gp in your situation).

 

[Arkseven]

I'm glad you realize and accept your current legal status. I'm surprised as one of your questions in your initial post was how to get the NCP father to pay child support directly to you.

The main reason for wanting the NCP to maintain child support is more of a moral principle thing. If the only way we can "force" responsibility on parents is finiancially, then they should be required to maintain (at least ) that much.

They were two consenting adults, that knew the end results could be bringing another life into this world, every person should be held accountable and responsible for their decisions.

Thanks again for the advice, have a great week.

 

[jbowman]

The main reason for wanting the NCP to maintain child support is more of a moral principle thing. If the only way we can "force" responsibility on parents is finiancially, then they should be required to maintain (at least ) that much.

Just out of curiousity, how is mom being "forced" responsibility while she is incarcerated? Is she paying her portion of support?