do bully's win?

[malaika]

What is the name of your state? Michigan.

My son is 11 yrs old. he was diagnosed with rhuematoid arthritis, ADHD, Tourrettes, Depression, Panic Disorder, and OCD when he was 7. Kids think he's crazy so he's always been bullied as a result and doesn't have many friends.
In school he tries to ignore the bullying, he's been pushed, punched, tripped, teased, but when he tells an adult he's told stay away from the other kid or stop trying to start trouble. it continues until he gets to a breaking point and he yells back, sometimes swears, and once or twice pushed back. Any time we reported it to the principal we're always told "no one saw it start, but we did see HIM shout, swear, or push, thats why HE is in detention and not the other kid."
when the school found out he was in therapy things got worse. anytime anything happened he was immediately sent home regardless of what caused it. once in response to a bully who shoved him he said " i hate you, i wish you were dead" the school called the police and called him homicidal. he was taken immediately to his therapist who asked me if they were serious! this professional said he was not a danger, that was not a threat. and the school isnt helping him. then she sent him back to school.
I've told the principal i wanted something done or I would start pressing charges he told me that wasnt a good idea because my son has "a history of being a problem" and they would turn it back on him and maybe take him away from me because i cant afford the best lawyer. Like a fool I belived him and kept telling my son just behave, ignore it, stay away from the other kids, dont fight back.
He's learned not to say anything at all to the teachers or me because no one does anything.
Recently there was an incident at the bus stop. The bully had been shoving him into the snow everyday and he didnt tell me, he'd just try to run home faster. This time he got off the bus and walked up to the kid. Kid asked "what the hxxx do you want?" and my son shoved him with his forearm. he was fed up with it and admitted he wanted to knock the boy down and make it home safe for once. but he bloodied the boys nose and was witnessed.
now he's being charged with assualt and battery. they say no one saw him being bullied ever. they dont know where the bloody noses, wet clothes and bruises came from in the past. His lawyer has not returned any phone calls. i've never even spoken to him yet! but he went to a pretrial without me. I just got a letter informing me that the trial date was in two weeks and he would meet me for the 1st time 15 minutes before the trial starts!
I dont know what to do now. my son is not a bad boy or violent attacker but apparently therapy for mental issues equals "always guilty"
Im looking for another lawyer now but finding an affordable one isnt easy. this other lawyer is still representing him.. on paper anyway.
any advice?What is the name of your state?

 

[tranquility]

Your son clearly has profound problems. I'm not sure crazy is a technical term, but your son's issues are well outside what most would consider "normal". I'm not sure what you are looking for. Just as example, say we made a note everytime a child is involved with a problem or issue. All the other children have an average of 3 "notes" a year and your child has an average of 50. (We're just supposing, don't argue the numbers.) Your argument is that it is the other kids who are at fault because they are not treating your son appropriately. Right?

To me, this would be strong evidence as to where the problem lies. It would be better to research each note to find fault and only make a "note" if a person has done wrong. However, this would be a problem too because it is your son who is being caught. At least, that's what the teachers who have seen anything are saying. I'm not saying your child is lying or that anything you say is untrue, but all the actual evidence is that it is not everyone else's fault you child is having problems. How is a lawyer going to help you?

Your son did assault and batter another person. While he may have a defense, he may not be able to prove it. I know you live your son's issues every day and it is unfair for me to suggest the next, but you have to focus on your son's behavior. You are not going to change the world by getting mad at it. Society is very good at hitting the nails which stick out and greasing the squeaking wheel. Thinking that is unfair is not going to help your son.

 

[David Jonathan]

I am not an attorney.

in Eden Prairie, MN some kids were calling a little girl a bunch of names on the school bus ... the mother sued the school district, and won over a million dollars.

Sometimes you need to hit them where it counts, in the only place they'll feel it. The pocketbook. Find a good attorney who can take on that case. You've got medical reports that document the abuse from the other students (the Therapist) that should be admissable in court.

Find your son a new school as well - he shouldn't have to go through that abuse.

--Dave.

 

[CraigFL]

I am not an attorney.

in Eden Prairie, MN some kids were calling a little girl a bunch of names on the school bus ... the mother sued the school district, and won over a million dollars.

Sometimes you need to hit them where it counts, in the only place they'll feel it. The pocketbook. Find a good attorney who can take on that case. You've got medical reports that document the abuse from the other students (the Therapist) that should be admissable in court.

Find your son a new school as well - he shouldn't have to go through that abuse.

--Dave.

I agree with this. Teachers/responsible people not dealing with the real problem leads to this kind of abuse. We rely on these people to protect our children, do the right thing as well as help the others grow up properly. When they neglect their duty/authority for whatever reason at the expense of others we need to hold them responsible legally.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[fairisfair]

have you considered perhaps making some kind of a presentation to the class? You know kids strike out at that which is different and that they don't understand. There may be children who are cruel because they are actually afraid of your son. Perhaps if they understood the medical conditions that make him act and maybe look different some of the teasing and ridicule would stop. of course there are always going to be bullies and I agree (making it a total of $.06 cents) with Dave and Craig on that issue, that you must take every step to hold the school accountable for maintaining control of the students. However, that includes YOUR son as well.

 

[malaika]

Your son clearly has profound problems. I'm not sure crazy is a technical term, but your son's issues are well outside what most would consider "normal". I'm not sure what you are looking for. Just as example, say we made a note everytime a child is involved with a problem or issue. All the other children have an average of 3 "notes" a year and your child has an average of 50. (We're just supposing, don't argue the numbers.) Your argument is that it is the other kids who are at fault because they are not treating your son appropriately. Right?

To me, this would be strong evidence as to where the problem lies. It would be better to research each note to find fault and only make a "note" if a person has done wrong. However, this would be a problem too because it is your son who is being caught. At least, that's what the teachers who have seen anything are saying. I'm not saying your child is lying or that anything you say is untrue, but all the actual evidence is that it is not everyone else's fault you child is having problems. How is a lawyer going to help you?

Your son did assault and batter another person. While he may have a defense, he may not be able to prove it. I know you live your son's issues every day and it is unfair for me to suggest the next, but you have to focus on your son's behavior. You are not going to change the world by getting mad at it. Society is very good at hitting the nails which stick out and greasing the squeaking wheel. Thinking that is unfair is not going to help your son.

I guess my post wasnt very clear as to what i was looking for here. I Listed my son's medical problems as only background. He does have arthritis so some days he limps. he has ADHD so he's hyper. his tourettes causes him to blink rapidly and tap his fingers unconsciously, he doesnt have the type that makes him bark or swear or the other extremes. his depression and panic make him quiet and shy. hard to make friends. he cant help any of that but it makes him a target for being different, and to the teachers it makes him a distraction in their perfect classes.

he is held responsible at home. and i dont believe he's blameless 100% of the time. I know and he knows he's reacted inappropriately. but he isnt automatically guilty anytime there is an issue either. but that isnt my main reason for posting here. thats the back ground.

The issue is.. now that he's finally fought back he's the only one being blamed. he's going to court for assualting an assualtant...but the court appointed lawyer doesnt seem to be doing anything. he wont return my calls. i havent met him or spoken to him at all. he's willing to give me 15 minutes before the trial starts and nothing more... and THAT i dont think is fair. I've called the juv. court and told them whats going on and all i get is "we'll call you back" . I dont know anything about court or lawyers. i dont know how things should work, but i dont think this sounds right. he's supposed to be defending us, but doesnt want to speak to us? i dont know who to go to from here. i cant afford a high priced lawyer but there has to be someone else i can talk to. i dont know who.
thats my reason for posting...

 

[David Jonathan]

whelp, I personally don't think what your attorney is doing is right.

What you may need to do is hire an attorney who can help you with these criminal charges, as it doesn't sound like this attorney is working in your son's best interest.

--Dave.

 

[Ohiogal]

I guess my post wasnt very clear as to what i was looking for here. I Listed my son's medical problems as only background. He does have arthritis so some days he limps. he has ADHD so he's hyper. his tourettes causes him to blink rapidly and tap his fingers unconsciously, he doesnt have the type that makes him bark or swear or the other extremes. his depression and panic make him quiet and shy. hard to make friends. he cant help any of that but it makes him a target for being different, and to the teachers it makes him a distraction in their perfect classes.

he is held responsible at home. and i dont believe he's blameless 100% of the time. I know and he knows he's reacted inappropriately. but he isnt automatically guilty anytime there is an issue either. but that isnt my main reason for posting here. thats the back ground.

The issue is.. now that he's finally fought back he's the only one being blamed. he's going to court for assualting an assualtant...but the court appointed lawyer doesnt seem to be doing anything. he wont return my calls. i havent met him or spoken to him at all. he's willing to give me 15 minutes before the trial starts and nothing more... and THAT i dont think is fair. I've called the juv. court and told them whats going on and all i get is "we'll call you back" . I dont know anything about court or lawyers. i dont know how things should work, but i dont think this sounds right. he's supposed to be defending us, but doesnt want to speak to us? i dont know who to go to from here. i cant afford a high priced lawyer but there has to be someone else i can talk to. i dont know who.
thats my reason for posting...

He does NOT represent you nor does this attorney defend YOU. He represents your son. Try having your SON call him. But he does not work for you. As for your son he is guilty based on the facts you presented. He assaulted someone. he cannot show that it was self defense based on the fact pattern you have given.

 

[BL]

Does your son have an IEP in school .

School councilor ?

Have YOU in anyway wrote your complaints about bullying /physical assaults to the school and are they in record ?

Without any recorded proof through you or councilors ( therapist might ? ) , for the child's attorney to present , it will look like he was the aggressor without provocations .

Some proofs would be helpful .

Folks , this is an 11 year old with special needs obviously .

I think the Parent should at least be able to tell Her child's lawyer of any proofs of continued / constant bullying - assaults on Her child , so the Lawyer can at least present .

If the Parent didn't take more of an assertive role , like written complaints to the school . police reports when Her child was assaulted , Etc ., She is just as fault as the School personal IMO .

 

[malaika]

He does NOT represent you nor does this attorney defend YOU. He represents your son. Try having your SON call him. But he does not work for you. As for your son he is guilty based on the facts you presented. He assaulted someone. he cannot show that it was self defense based on the fact pattern you have given.

wow. I posted hoping for any advice, or anyone going through the same thing. this certainly helped. thank you. i'm very much aware that the lawyer isnt defending or representing me. he's supposed to be working for my son. my underage unable to make legal decisions for himself child who isnt guilty until proven. but my child should be making the calls?

 

[BL]

wow. I posted hoping for any advice, or anyone going through the same thing. this certainly helped. thank you. i'm very much aware that the lawyer isnt defending or representing me. he's supposed to be working for my son. my underage unable to make legal decisions for himself child who isnt guilty until proven. but my child should be making the calls?

You haven't answered questions ?

At any rate Ohio is correct is the sense that the Lawyer represents the child .

This is a Juvenile matter . You even admit he punched the victim so as he could get home .

He was caught . He could hope for some sorta probation .

Unfortunately , yes bullies can get away with things , and until you take a more pro-active roll , your child will be scared from such incidences .

The bullies will continue with someone else and get caught in there own mess , so they really don't get away with being bullies .

 

[smutlydog]

What is the name of your state? Michigan.

My son is 11 yrs old. he was diagnosed with rhuematoid arthritis, ADHD, Tourrettes, Depression, Panic Disorder, and OCD when he was 7. Kids think he's crazy so he's always been bullied as a result and doesn't have many friends.
In school he tries to ignore the bullying, he's been pushed, punched, tripped, teased, but when he tells an adult he's told stay away from the other kid or stop trying to start trouble. it continues until he gets to a breaking point and he yells back, sometimes swears, and once or twice pushed back. Any time we reported it to the principal we're always told "no one saw it start, but we did see HIM shout, swear, or push, thats why HE is in detention and not the other kid."
when the school found out he was in therapy things got worse. anytime anything happened he was immediately sent home regardless of what caused it. once in response to a bully who shoved him he said " i hate you, i wish you were dead" the school called the police and called him homicidal. he was taken immediately to his therapist who asked me if they were serious! this professional said he was not a danger, that was not a threat. and the school isnt helping him. then she sent him back to school.
I've told the principal i wanted something done or I would start pressing charges he told me that wasnt a good idea because my son has "a history of being a problem" and they would turn it back on him and maybe take him away from me because i cant afford the best lawyer. Like a fool I belived him and kept telling my son just behave, ignore it, stay away from the other kids, dont fight back.
He's learned not to say anything at all to the teachers or me because no one does anything.
Recently there was an incident at the bus stop. The bully had been shoving him into the snow everyday and he didnt tell me, he'd just try to run home faster. This time he got off the bus and walked up to the kid. Kid asked "what the hxxx do you want?" and my son shoved him with his forearm. he was fed up with it and admitted he wanted to knock the boy down and make it home safe for once. but he bloodied the boys nose and was witnessed.
now he's being charged with assualt and battery. they say no one saw him being bullied ever. they dont know where the bloody noses, wet clothes and bruises came from in the past. His lawyer has not returned any phone calls. i've never even spoken to him yet! but he went to a pretrial without me. I just got a letter informing me that the trial date was in two weeks and he would meet me for the 1st time 15 minutes before the trial starts!
I dont know what to do now. my son is not a bad boy or violent attacker but apparently therapy for mental issues equals "always guilty"
Im looking for another lawyer now but finding an affordable one isnt easy. this other lawyer is still representing him.. on paper anyway.
any advice?What is the name of your state?

I empathize with you. For the last 13 years of my life I have been the sole guardian of a child with severe ADHD. He is a perfectly normal teenager now but he was hell on wheels as a small child. Around me he was fine but once he went into a different environment complaints were almost assured, Nobody other than a parent of a child with ADHD knows what its like. My son would get an average of 30 referrals to the office a year. I can remember several years in grade school when he was not allowed to go on field trips. I later found out that the school districts are supposed provide someone to individually watch over children with ADHD on these trips. Technically the school districts are in violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I think part of the answer lies in smaller classroom sizes. Every time they expelled him they would send him temporarily to a school for unruly kids. The school consisted of more structure and smaller classroom sizes. The teacher there would always comment on what a well behaved of an angel he was. I argued with the district about letting him finish out the school year there but the answer was always no.

You might want to contact these people to see what the possibilities are
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm

 

[lealea1005]

I also would like to know if your son has an IEP or 504 plan in place. If so, you may be able to include daily (initially) or weekly (eventually) behavioral/academic updates in his accommodations. Be that pain in the rear to the school principal/counselors/teachers. Let them know you intend to take an active roll in your son's education.

Do you have the name(s) of the "bullies"? Perhaps a meeting between the "bullies", their parents, the school principal and guidance counselor (as well as his IEP and/or 504 coordinator) would be helpful.

If your son is being bullied everyday when getting off the bus, some one is seeing something. Did you speak with the bus driver?

I agree with BL, as a parent you must take a pro-active roll advocating for your son, at school and at home. Good luck.