lcannister
Senior Member
And hopefully if there is an accomplice he/she will get taken down a few notches too!
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Obtaining mortgage by posing as sister
- Thread starter John Patrick
- Start date
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lcannister
Senior Member
But PLEASE keep us posted on this case, it is very interesting.
John Patrick
Junior Member
Depending on how you interpret it, YES.... not only did this accomplice practically FORCE or COERCE this person into committing fraud and identity theft, but this accomplice had full knowledge of the criminal actions, because this accomplice prepared all the mortgage papers.
This accomplice was also the original owner of the house AND also owned a mortgage company, which she pushed, corerced, and basically would ONLY allow this lady to go through her mortgage company, rather than another one, where she might have been able to get the loan on her own, but the accomplice wouldn't have made her additional $17,000 for preparing the forms.
This lady was already IN the new house, having originally bought the house on contract from this accomplice, but then needing to get a mortgage rather than make a very large balloon payment.
The bad part now, which I've just learned, is that the property is assessed at $197,000 and $10,000 was put in as a down payment, but the total loan is for $217,000, which means this lady purchased the house for $227,000, which is $30,000 more than the assessed value.
I'm not defending this lady's actions, regarding her fraud, forgery, and identity theft, but I also feel this accomplice should be held liable. The accomplice has now contacted the other sister, whose identity was stolen, and is trying to act all innocent and dumb, while trying to make friends with the other sister to protect herself.
This accomplice was also the original owner of the house AND also owned a mortgage company, which she pushed, corerced, and basically would ONLY allow this lady to go through her mortgage company, rather than another one, where she might have been able to get the loan on her own, but the accomplice wouldn't have made her additional $17,000 for preparing the forms.
This lady was already IN the new house, having originally bought the house on contract from this accomplice, but then needing to get a mortgage rather than make a very large balloon payment.
The bad part now, which I've just learned, is that the property is assessed at $197,000 and $10,000 was put in as a down payment, but the total loan is for $217,000, which means this lady purchased the house for $227,000, which is $30,000 more than the assessed value.
I'm not defending this lady's actions, regarding her fraud, forgery, and identity theft, but I also feel this accomplice should be held liable. The accomplice has now contacted the other sister, whose identity was stolen, and is trying to act all innocent and dumb, while trying to make friends with the other sister to protect herself.
lcannister
Senior Member
I'm not defending this lady's actions, regarding her fraud, forgery, and identity theft, but I also feel this accomplice should be held liable.
Then call the FBI they deal with mortgage fraud. Yes the FBI.
Your ex GF knew she was committing fraud and should have walked away, therefore, she is still just as guilty as the accomplice!
The FBI might negotiate a settlement with your EX if she is willing to spill the beans on this accomplice.
I hope the person who had her ID stolen is a strong person who will not allow either of them to get by with this atrocity.
Then call the FBI they deal with mortgage fraud. Yes the FBI.
Your ex GF knew she was committing fraud and should have walked away, therefore, she is still just as guilty as the accomplice!
The FBI might negotiate a settlement with your EX if she is willing to spill the beans on this accomplice.
I hope the person who had her ID stolen is a strong person who will not allow either of them to get by with this atrocity.
xylene
Senior Member
You need to get past the fact that she is a single mom, because the prosecutor, the court, and the jury are going to get over it in a heartbeat. It just isn't going to play in the defense at all. Need as a Justification is a hard sell for financial crime at this dollar level. At sentence... maybe, probably not much.
Further, accomplices do not necessarily reduce criminal culpability, even if she was a patsy. If it shows she was part of a CONSPIRACY than the sanctions might wind up worse.
Bottom line is your friend is in a very serious situation, and prison time is very much on the table, even if sis forgives her.
I'm not saying this to be harsh but to be direct and factually informative: if your friend is under any illusions of the seriousness of her crimes, the real likelyhood that they will be punished by incareation, or that having personal issues of children and/or financial difficulty or naivitae will have bearing on the case... Well that misperception needs to be corrected with all due speed.
She owes it to her children.
Further, accomplices do not necessarily reduce criminal culpability, even if she was a patsy. If it shows she was part of a CONSPIRACY than the sanctions might wind up worse.
Bottom line is your friend is in a very serious situation, and prison time is very much on the table, even if sis forgives her.
I'm not saying this to be harsh but to be direct and factually informative: if your friend is under any illusions of the seriousness of her crimes, the real likelyhood that they will be punished by incareation, or that having personal issues of children and/or financial difficulty or naivitae will have bearing on the case... Well that misperception needs to be corrected with all due speed.
She owes it to her children.
Ohiogal
Queen Bee
The accomplice may very well be held liable but your friend is a crook and a cheat and a thief. The excuses you are giving are just that. SHE CHOSE this situation and chose to buy this house and CHOSE to sign her sister's name.
John Patrick
Junior Member
I will keep you all posted, because it is going to be a very interesting case. I am aware that this lady did knowingly and of her own free will commit this identity theft and fraud, so there's no avoiding that fact. Any sympathies I might have are with her children. She has an older daughter, who is 24 and is a single mom of a two year old, who is my godson and pseudo-grandson. This daughter is fully aware of the implications for her mom and the real probability of her doing some jail time and this daughter has already thought about and considered herself to be the new guardian and home for her two younger brothers.
This lady has often been involved in some rather shady financial dealings in the past, but has never gotten caught and/or they were somehow kept "somewhat" legal. Her profession, ironically, is that of a legal assistant, though she has only worked part time and usually only 3-6 months out of the year, if that. She is on social security disability for fibromyalgia.
Once this thieving lady discovered that the "gig was up," so to speak, then she left the house with her kids and has been living at the boys grandfather's large one-bedroom apartment. Her reasoning was that she didn't want her boys seeing their mom being arrested, but if the police and most certainly the FBI want to find her, well... this ex-father-in-law/grandfather to her kids is listed as an associate of hers on any background check website. You can even see that without actually purchasing a background check.
At this point the police have only requested that she talk to them, but no arrest warrant has been issued or so it seems. She has retained a lawyer, but he's not making this case a very high priority, so nothing has really been done yet.
Now... as far as her "accomplice," well... that does irk me a bit, because I have met this lady several times and she is... well, I won't say anything negative... BUT...
I wonderif anyone can tell me if receiving $17,000 for merely preparing some mortgage and/orloan documents seems a bit unreasonable. I'm sure there HAD to be some disclosure of these cost AND that they would be added to the total loan value. There are actually TWO mortgages on the house, with the first mortgage being for the actual cost of the house, minus her $10,000 down payment (house sale cost=$200,000 - $10,000 = $190,000 first mortgage). The second mortgage is for the $17,000 PLUS another $20,000+ that this "accomplice" also received as her equity in the home. Something just doesn't seem right here to me.
The payment on the 1st mortgage is $1200/month, which was affordable, but adding the 2nd mortgage payment of $400/month, well... makes it much less affordable. This "thieving lady" is no dummy, but she sure was on this deal... not sure WHAT she was thinking signing TWO mortgages OR paying this "accomplice" $17,000 for her services, which she could have had done by ANYONE else for MUCH cheaper, I'm sure...
This lady has often been involved in some rather shady financial dealings in the past, but has never gotten caught and/or they were somehow kept "somewhat" legal. Her profession, ironically, is that of a legal assistant, though she has only worked part time and usually only 3-6 months out of the year, if that. She is on social security disability for fibromyalgia.
Once this thieving lady discovered that the "gig was up," so to speak, then she left the house with her kids and has been living at the boys grandfather's large one-bedroom apartment. Her reasoning was that she didn't want her boys seeing their mom being arrested, but if the police and most certainly the FBI want to find her, well... this ex-father-in-law/grandfather to her kids is listed as an associate of hers on any background check website. You can even see that without actually purchasing a background check.
At this point the police have only requested that she talk to them, but no arrest warrant has been issued or so it seems. She has retained a lawyer, but he's not making this case a very high priority, so nothing has really been done yet.
Now... as far as her "accomplice," well... that does irk me a bit, because I have met this lady several times and she is... well, I won't say anything negative... BUT...
I wonderif anyone can tell me if receiving $17,000 for merely preparing some mortgage and/orloan documents seems a bit unreasonable. I'm sure there HAD to be some disclosure of these cost AND that they would be added to the total loan value. There are actually TWO mortgages on the house, with the first mortgage being for the actual cost of the house, minus her $10,000 down payment (house sale cost=$200,000 - $10,000 = $190,000 first mortgage). The second mortgage is for the $17,000 PLUS another $20,000+ that this "accomplice" also received as her equity in the home. Something just doesn't seem right here to me.
The payment on the 1st mortgage is $1200/month, which was affordable, but adding the 2nd mortgage payment of $400/month, well... makes it much less affordable. This "thieving lady" is no dummy, but she sure was on this deal... not sure WHAT she was thinking signing TWO mortgages OR paying this "accomplice" $17,000 for her services, which she could have had done by ANYONE else for MUCH cheaper, I'm sure...
lcannister
Senior Member
This "thieving lady" is no dummy, but she sure was on this deal... not sure WHAT she was thinking signing TWO mortgages OR paying this "accomplice" $17,000 for her services, which she could have had done by ANYONE else for MUCH cheaper, I'm sure...
You are wrong, she was no dummy on this deal. She knew exactly what she was doing, she wanted what she wanted and frankly SHE did not give a damn how she got it as long as she did!
We are just outraged at the situation in case you think we are blaming you for any of this!
So the police are involved? GREAT.
So, now that the accomplice who owns the mortgage company has been implicated in this has she called the loan or what is she saying?
You are wrong, she was no dummy on this deal. She knew exactly what she was doing, she wanted what she wanted and frankly SHE did not give a damn how she got it as long as she did!
We are just outraged at the situation in case you think we are blaming you for any of this!
So the police are involved? GREAT.
So, now that the accomplice who owns the mortgage company has been implicated in this has she called the loan or what is she saying?
John Patrick
Junior Member
Yes, the police are involved, but at this point they have only requested to talk to her and no arrest warrant has been issued.
NO, the "accomplice" has NOT been implicated in anything yet and she is playing up her innocence and even going so far as to try and befriend the "other sister" who is the victim of this crime. The "accomplice" even called the "thieving sister" to try to insure that she didn't implicate her and to try and convince her that "accomplice" was totally innocent and completely unaware of any of this... YEA, RIGHT!
While the accomplice may not have forged any documents, signatures, or identities, she was right by "thieving sister's" side through the entire process, so I'm pretty positive that she is at least culpable, due to her inactions to stop any of it AND her actions that kept the whole loan/mortgage process moving forward and "damn the torpedos," so to speak. I think that greed got the better of her (accomplice), since she walked away from the whole process with around $40,000 in cash. In my view, this enabler should at the very least need to return any of this "ill gotten gain" to the bank, since the bank will be unable to recoup the value of the loan, since it is $30,000 higher than the assessed value of the property.
Not sure what else the accomplice maybe doing to try and "cover her ass," as they say in the Army, but I'm sure she might be causing some of these fraudulent and/or forged documents to disappear. It is my understanding that his accomplice even signed some of these documents AFTER the thieving sister had "done her deed, so she shouldn't be shouting her innocence to loudly or someone just might hear, see, and know... the truth!
NO, the "accomplice" has NOT been implicated in anything yet and she is playing up her innocence and even going so far as to try and befriend the "other sister" who is the victim of this crime. The "accomplice" even called the "thieving sister" to try to insure that she didn't implicate her and to try and convince her that "accomplice" was totally innocent and completely unaware of any of this... YEA, RIGHT!
While the accomplice may not have forged any documents, signatures, or identities, she was right by "thieving sister's" side through the entire process, so I'm pretty positive that she is at least culpable, due to her inactions to stop any of it AND her actions that kept the whole loan/mortgage process moving forward and "damn the torpedos," so to speak. I think that greed got the better of her (accomplice), since she walked away from the whole process with around $40,000 in cash. In my view, this enabler should at the very least need to return any of this "ill gotten gain" to the bank, since the bank will be unable to recoup the value of the loan, since it is $30,000 higher than the assessed value of the property.
Not sure what else the accomplice maybe doing to try and "cover her ass," as they say in the Army, but I'm sure she might be causing some of these fraudulent and/or forged documents to disappear. It is my understanding that his accomplice even signed some of these documents AFTER the thieving sister had "done her deed, so she shouldn't be shouting her innocence to loudly or someone just might hear, see, and know... the truth!
lcannister
Senior Member
Is is the "thieving sister" willing to take the fall for the entire thing if it goes that way? I need to go back and read the whole thread agains but I thought you said that the "accomplice" owned the mortgage company? If I am wrong and she merely WORKS for the company then what is their take on this and is the "victim" pushing anything yet?
lcannister
Senior Member
An after thought but how did the "victim" find out about this scam? Has she pulled her credit reports yet to see if this was all the malicious sis was up to once she found out she got by with this so seemingly easy?
John Patrick
Junior Member
No, I doubt that the "thieving sister" is willing to take the fall for anyone else OR fall any further than she has done on her own, though I also don't really think she has fully thought through much of it... obvioiusly... and has mostly just been trying to avoid it or ignore it... like it's going to go away? I think I mentioned previously that she has been "hiding out" and has left the ill gotten house, though any idiot with the internet could easily find her... plenty of resources that list individuals associates. I hope that law enforcement has at least those basic tools at their disposal.
I'm not very knowledgable about real estate transactions and the different parties and entities involved and what each do. I do know that the "accomplice" owns the mortgage company, but she did not loan the money and merely prepares the documents and sets up, arranges, attends, and facilitates the different processes and parties involved. AND... interesting that you asked how the "sister victim" discovered this fraud, because I had forgotten this and how it happened is more proof of the "accomplices" role in this whole fraud case.
It was not simply a matter of the "victim sister" applying for a loan or getting a copy of her credit report. What happened was that when the "pair" ("thieving sister" and "accomplice") went to a title company to have them do their part, this title company suspected fraud and would not perform their title duties for them... SO... the "pair" just went to another title company and got them to do their part. That is something that is a bit telling regarding the "accomplice's" role in this fraud AND her full knowledge or at least partial knowledge of a crime being committed.
What happened next is that this 1st title company followed up on their suspicions and contacted the "victim sister" to confirm her attendance in the office and it was they that informed her that someone posing as her was attempting to obtain title to a house in Iowa. The "victim sister" knew immediately who was attempting to get title to a home in Iowa in her name, because she knows her sister all too well. The "victim sister" is... ironically... a lawyer, though I don't know her specialty, in Miami, Florida. Further irony is that the "thieving sister" is a legal assistant, though I think she would be a good example of the phrase, "knows just enough to be dangerous." In truth... I think her legal assistant credentials are about as phony as her mortgage, since she never works for a law firm for more than a few months before quitting or getting fired, though it is never quite clear which or why. I do know she has lied about having a college degree on her resume, when it appears that she actually never graduated high school. She even embelishes further... why not... and mentions being captain of the swim team, along with a host of other prestigious entries and honorable mentions. I have witnessed first hand her lack of knowledge regarding certain legal issues or laws, which even a dummy like me can easily find on the internet. She was even admonished once by a state law judge for practicing law without a license and was lucky it didn't go any further. She was attempting to help a friend with a legal case, but her incompetence totally screwed him along with almost getting herself charged with a crime.
I'm a bit surprised at the time frame here, since the "victim sister" has evidently initiated something, which has caused the local police here to request an interview with the "thieving sister," but the "victim sister's" discovery of this fraud and this whole tangled web of deceit becoming unravelled began nearly a month ago, yet nothing much has really happened in that time. Do these cases take a long time to investigate? Are they low on the law enforcement priority list? Why would city police be involved? I would think it might potenitally be a federal court matter.
Okay... there's some more titilating specifics... and as much as I know, with much of it coming from the "thieving sister's" own daughter, who I have remained close to.. in part due to being the godfather of her 2 year old son and basically his pseudo-grandfather, since he has no active father OR grandfather in his life AND this daughter has no responsible adult parents in her life either. You already know a bit about her mom and her dad is basically an irresponsible drunk who has three children who live less than a mile from him, yet he never sees... calls... or does much of anything, except pop up around Christmas with a gift card to Toys R Us.
Just kind of clarifying my own position in all of this... so to speak, since I have sort of adopted the daughter and have done what I can to help her out and more especially, to remain independent from her mother and her mother's bad influences... I was also very close to the two boys, but since they remain in mom's care and scope, I don't see them very often, but still do much more than their father... AND since this will probably all impact this daughter greatly, since she will be the only really responsible family member who will be willing and able to care for her two minor brothers in the event that mom goes away "on vacation" for awhile... I am monitoring from the sidelines to step up when and if necessary to aid the true innocents in all of this mess, the kids.
I'm not very knowledgable about real estate transactions and the different parties and entities involved and what each do. I do know that the "accomplice" owns the mortgage company, but she did not loan the money and merely prepares the documents and sets up, arranges, attends, and facilitates the different processes and parties involved. AND... interesting that you asked how the "sister victim" discovered this fraud, because I had forgotten this and how it happened is more proof of the "accomplices" role in this whole fraud case.
It was not simply a matter of the "victim sister" applying for a loan or getting a copy of her credit report. What happened was that when the "pair" ("thieving sister" and "accomplice") went to a title company to have them do their part, this title company suspected fraud and would not perform their title duties for them... SO... the "pair" just went to another title company and got them to do their part. That is something that is a bit telling regarding the "accomplice's" role in this fraud AND her full knowledge or at least partial knowledge of a crime being committed.
What happened next is that this 1st title company followed up on their suspicions and contacted the "victim sister" to confirm her attendance in the office and it was they that informed her that someone posing as her was attempting to obtain title to a house in Iowa. The "victim sister" knew immediately who was attempting to get title to a home in Iowa in her name, because she knows her sister all too well. The "victim sister" is... ironically... a lawyer, though I don't know her specialty, in Miami, Florida. Further irony is that the "thieving sister" is a legal assistant, though I think she would be a good example of the phrase, "knows just enough to be dangerous." In truth... I think her legal assistant credentials are about as phony as her mortgage, since she never works for a law firm for more than a few months before quitting or getting fired, though it is never quite clear which or why. I do know she has lied about having a college degree on her resume, when it appears that she actually never graduated high school. She even embelishes further... why not... and mentions being captain of the swim team, along with a host of other prestigious entries and honorable mentions. I have witnessed first hand her lack of knowledge regarding certain legal issues or laws, which even a dummy like me can easily find on the internet. She was even admonished once by a state law judge for practicing law without a license and was lucky it didn't go any further. She was attempting to help a friend with a legal case, but her incompetence totally screwed him along with almost getting herself charged with a crime.
I'm a bit surprised at the time frame here, since the "victim sister" has evidently initiated something, which has caused the local police here to request an interview with the "thieving sister," but the "victim sister's" discovery of this fraud and this whole tangled web of deceit becoming unravelled began nearly a month ago, yet nothing much has really happened in that time. Do these cases take a long time to investigate? Are they low on the law enforcement priority list? Why would city police be involved? I would think it might potenitally be a federal court matter.
Okay... there's some more titilating specifics... and as much as I know, with much of it coming from the "thieving sister's" own daughter, who I have remained close to.. in part due to being the godfather of her 2 year old son and basically his pseudo-grandfather, since he has no active father OR grandfather in his life AND this daughter has no responsible adult parents in her life either. You already know a bit about her mom and her dad is basically an irresponsible drunk who has three children who live less than a mile from him, yet he never sees... calls... or does much of anything, except pop up around Christmas with a gift card to Toys R Us.
Just kind of clarifying my own position in all of this... so to speak, since I have sort of adopted the daughter and have done what I can to help her out and more especially, to remain independent from her mother and her mother's bad influences... I was also very close to the two boys, but since they remain in mom's care and scope, I don't see them very often, but still do much more than their father... AND since this will probably all impact this daughter greatly, since she will be the only really responsible family member who will be willing and able to care for her two minor brothers in the event that mom goes away "on vacation" for awhile... I am monitoring from the sidelines to step up when and if necessary to aid the true innocents in all of this mess, the kids.
lcannister
Senior Member
Pretty strong accusations there, he said he knew the family well.
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