Planning ahead...

[CJane]

What is the name of your state? MO

What is generally considered a change in circumstances for child support purposes? I called CSE and they said "Just fill out the paperwork and we'll let you know if you have a case."... I was sort of hoping for an actual answer, ya know?

AssHat is currently ordered to pay $318/month actual support and $31.80/month towards arrears. This is based on my income at the time of filing (I was unemployed when the order was actually issued) and his estimated income at the time the order was issued... he was making $15/hour but claiming the job was 'part time' and he hadn't been there long enough to establish that it wasn't.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I am employed at a higher rate of pay than what CS is based on. Child is in daycare and wasn't at the time of the order, so there is added expense to go with my added income.

Currently, AssHat pays child support in the amount of $80.72 faithfully every Friday.

I filled out a new child support calculation worksheet today as it's been nearly a year since the order was issued and so much has changed... it indicates that he should be paying about $491/month... not including the 10% additional that would be assessed to go towards arrears.

At what point is it generally 'worth it' to ask CSE to re-evaluate the orders rather than waiting the required 2 years?

 

[MrsK]

What is the name of your state? MO

What is generally considered a change in circumstances for child support purposes? I called CSE and they said "Just fill out the paperwork and we'll let you know if you have a case."... I was sort of hoping for an actual answer, ya know?

AssHat is currently ordered to pay $318/month actual support and $31.80/month towards arrears. This is based on my income at the time of filing (I was unemployed when the order was actually issued) and his estimated income at the time the order was issued... he was making $15/hour but claiming the job was 'part time' and he hadn't been there long enough to establish that it wasn't.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I am employed at a higher rate of pay than what CS is based on. Child is in daycare and wasn't at the time of the order, so there is added expense to go with my added income.

Currently, AssHat pays child support in the amount of $80.72 faithfully every Friday.

I filled out a new child support calculation worksheet today as it's been nearly a year since the order was issued and so much has changed... it indicates that he should be paying about $491/month... not including the 10% additional that would be assessed to go towards arrears.

At what point is it generally 'worth it' to ask CSE to re-evaluate the orders rather than waiting the required 2 years?

There usually is a % increase that SES/CSE requires. Here its 25%. So in your example, support would need to go from $318 to $397. I am assuming your state has a % also, you could call CSE and ask.

 

[CJane]

There usually is a % increase that SES/CSE requires. Here its 25%. So in your example, support would need to go from $318 to $397. I am assuming your state has a % also, you could call CSE and ask.

CSE wouldn't give me any information. They said "Fill out the paperwork and we'll determine if you have a case. To give you more information than that would be giving legal advice and that's beyond our scope."

 

[MrsK]

CSE wouldn't give me any information. They said "Fill out the paperwork and we'll determine if you have a case. To give you more information than that would be giving legal advice and that's beyond our scope."

WHAT????????????????? Crazy. Since when is giving you the information about their procedure the LAW?

Was it your caseworker that told you this? Do you have a caseworker? Can you call someone @ customer service and ask them? Can you call & get anyone else and ask them????

I cant believe they told you that.

 

[MrsK]

Here you go sweetie. I found it on your states DSS/CSE website.

Information On Modification
To ensure child support awards are in line with changing circumstances, CSE conducts triennial reviews of child support orders. On non-TANF cases, CSE conducts reviews if requested. On a TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) or Medicaid case, CSE either performs a review on its own or at either parent's request.

In conducting the review, CSE decides if a modification is appropriate by determining: (1) if a child support award figured using Missouri child support guidelines differs by 20 percent or more from the existing child support obligation; (2) if a health insurance provision needs to be added to the order. If three years have passed since the order was entered, last reviewed, or modified and either or both of the above criteria are met, CSE will initiate a modification of the order.

 

[CJane]

Here you go sweetie. I found it on your states DSS/CSE website.

Information On Modification
To ensure child support awards are in line with changing circumstances, CSE conducts triennial reviews of child support orders. On non-TANF cases, CSE conducts reviews if requested. On a TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) or Medicaid case, CSE either performs a review on its own or at either parent's request.

In conducting the review, CSE decides if a modification is appropriate by determining: (1) if a child support award figured using Missouri child support guidelines differs by 20 percent or more from the existing child support obligation; (2) if a health insurance provision needs to be added to the order. If three years have passed since the order was entered, last reviewed, or modified and either or both of the above criteria are met, CSE will initiate a modification of the order.

I rebolded the guideline...

That's what prompted me to call CSE originally. They claim that 'may or may not' be enough of a 'substantial and continuing change in circumstances' to review the case since it hasn't been 3 years since the order was issued.

MO statute requires a significant and continuing change in circumstances in order to review the case.

CSE recommended in the past that if I wanted a modification at any time before the 3 years was up, that I hire an attorney and file through the courts. For pretty obvious financial reasons, I'd rather not do so... so I'm trying to figure out what will prompt CSE to review the case outside the 3 year window.

 

[MrsK]

I rebolded the guideline...

That's what prompted me to call CSE originally. They claim that 'may or may not' be enough of a 'substantial and continuing change in circumstances' to review the case since it hasn't been 3 years since the order was issued.

MO statute requires a significant and continuing change in circumstances in order to review the case.

CSE recommended in the past that if I wanted a modification at any time before the 3 years was up, that I hire an attorney and file through the courts. For pretty obvious financial reasons, I'd rather not do so... so I'm trying to figure out what will prompt CSE to review the case outside the 3 year window.

The way *I* read it (and I'm not a lawyer so I could be wayyyyy off) is this:

If you have a 20% more change, we will review if you request
If a medical order needs to be added, we will review if you request

If these both are met AND its been 3 yrs, we will review without your request

I know thats how it works here, only its 25%

I think you should send in the paperwork, I think they will go ahead & do a mod.

How old is your order?

Oh, and the reason they may have said for you to go through family court is b/c they probably are so backlogged it'll take them awhile to get to you.

Why are you hesitating on asking for a review, just out of curiousity? I mean they worst they can do is tell you no.

Also, you could always go pro-se in family court. If he makes x and you make x and there are x amt of daycare costs, it'll probably be pretty straightforward, right?

 

[CJane]

I was thinking the same thing, but then when they got so evasive, I thought I was reading it wrong.

How old is your order?

It will be a year in June since it was dated... but it didn't go into effect until Nov and he began paying in Dec... it's based on financial information from February of '06.

Oh, and the reason they may have said for you to go through family court is b/c they probably are so backlogged it'll take them awhile to get to you.

Then why can't they just SAY that? LOL

Why are you hesitating on asking for a review, just out of curiousity? I mean they worst they can do is tell you no.

Several reasons... I don't want to initiate if it's not at least a 50/50 thing. I'm rather happy with the status quo of him paying weekly and leaving us the hell alone otherwise... and I don't want him deciding to file for visitation again just to drop the case later... which is why I want to go through CSE and not family court.

Also, you could always go pro-se in family court. If he makes x and you make x and there are x amt of daycare costs, it'll probably be pretty straightforward, right?

You would think. I'd rather not deal with it though if I can avoid court.

 

[qurice]

"Reviewing your request" as MrsK stated would not be the same as actually doing a mod. Just looking to see whether or not you actually have a change of circumstance that would qualify for a mod.

CSE here (Tx OAG) takes like 2 months before you hear back from them once their "paperwork" is filled out. They recieved my request on March 2nd, and as of last week, no one has looked at it yet.

CJane, they probably didn't give you any info because they don't know. You can always try to call back and get someone different. Sometimes that works for me!

 

[MrsK]

"Reviewing your request" as MrsK stated would not be the same as actually doing a mod. Just looking to see whether or not you actually have a change of circumstance that would qualify for a mod.

CSE here (Tx OAG) takes like 2 months before you hear back from them once their "paperwork" is filled out. They recieved my request on March 2nd, and as of last week, no one has looked at it yet.

CJane, they probably didn't give you any info because they don't know. You can always try to call back and get someone different. Sometimes that works for me!

I was gonna say the same thing- either the person didnt know the answer so they gave you the run around, or they just didnt feel like answering you (aka doing their job).

 

[ceara19]

"Reviewing your request" as MrsK stated would not be the same as actually doing a mod. Just looking to see whether or not you actually have a change of circumstance that would qualify for a mod.

CSE here (Tx OAG) takes like 2 months before you hear back from them once their "paperwork" is filled out. They recieved my request on March 2nd, and as of last week, no one has looked at it yet.

CJane, they probably didn't give you any info because they don't know. You can always try to call back and get someone different. Sometimes that works for me!

The problem is (especially in Texas) that you can talk to 20 different people and get 25 different answers and there is a good possibility that they will ALL be wrong!!! I raised enough hell with the OAG's office that they finally assigned me my very own personal attorney to speak with whenever I had an issue. But I had to make a LOT of caseworkers cry before I got to that point.

 

[CJane]

I called back today, to the 800 # and asked how to go about filing a request for a review. The person who answered the phone said "You can't. The order isn't 3 years old yet."

SO, I pointed out that the website says that other things can prompt a review. She heaved a HUGE sigh and said "Well, you can request one, but it's not going to happen so why would you bother? Just file in court for a judicial review."

I told her that I wasn't interested in going to court, and she said "I wouldn't be either, because you're not going to get your review there either. Do you even have his pay stubs?" I'm still trying to figure out why that would be relevant.

I asked her for the address to the local office that I've dealt with previously and she grudgingly gave it to me, telling me just to write them a letter saying I want a review. When I asked for their phone number, she refused to give it to me and hung up.

So, I called a couple of county offices and got in touch with the local office of CSE. I told the VERY NICE woman there what I was trying to do and she said "Let me guess, you have daycare or health insurance expenses that you didn't have when the determination was made." I said that was true, and told her that I'd completed a Calculation Worksheet and the order should change by almost 80%. She gave me a fax # and said she'd get it on my case worker's desk by the end of the day today and I'd know whether they were going to do a review by the end of the week.

 

[CJane]

This is what CSE said in denying my request... posting so others with the same question get the 'right' answer as opposed to what's on the CSE website:

"As noted in the enclosed letter, your request for modification review has been denied because the order was entered, modified, or last reviewed less than 36 months ago.

Although you have claimed in your request your belief that you are entitled to a review prior to June 15 2009, agency policy does not recognize your reasons as a basis for an early review. The criteria for early review are clearly stated on the enclosed letter and neither of the reasons cited in your letter fall under those criteria, specifically:
1) Agency policy does not recognize changes in child care expenses as a substantial and continuing change in circumstances.
2) Since the order already addresses the issue of medical insurance, there is no substantial and continuing change in circumstance which merits early review simply because the other parent has no access to coverage through his employment."

Additionally, I received this:

FSD (Family Support Division) considers one or more of the following to be a substantial change in circumstances:

** The administrative support order does not include all of the parents' children and a child needs to be added to the administrative support order.
** A child on the order is no longer due current support.
** The current order does not include a provision for medical support
** There is at least a 50% decrease in either parent's income or at least a 50% increase of either parent's income, and the circumstances have existed for three months, and will remain unchanged for at least six months or longer. (NOTE: If FSD does complete a review based on a 50% change in income, the presumed child support amount must change by at least 20% before FSD staff will modify the order.)
** The current order does not require payment of child support. (NOTE: If the order includes a finding that the guideline amount is unjust and inappropriate and the circumstances are the same as when the order was entered, FSD will not review your order for possible modification.)

 

[MrsK]

This is what CSE said in denying my request... posting so others with the same question get the 'right' answer as opposed to what's on the CSE website:

"As noted in the enclosed letter, your request for modification review has been denied because the order was entered, modified, or last reviewed less than 36 months ago.

Although you have claimed in your request your belief that you are entitled to a review prior to June 15 2009, agency policy does not recognize your reasons as a basis for an early review. The criteria for early review are clearly stated on the enclosed letter and neither of the reasons cited in your letter fall under those criteria, specifically:
1) Agency policy does not recognize changes in child care expenses as a substantial and continuing change in circumstances.
2) Since the order already addresses the issue of medical insurance, there is no substantial and continuing change in circumstance which merits early review simply because the other parent has no access to coverage through his employment."

Additionally, I received this:

FSD (Family Support Division) considers one or more of the following to be a substantial change in circumstances:

** The administrative support order does not include all of the parents' children and a child needs to be added to the administrative support order.
** A child on the order is no longer due current support.
** The current order does not include a provision for medical support
** There is at least a 50% decrease in either parent's income or at least a 50% increase of either parent's income, and the circumstances have existed for three months, and will remain unchanged for at least six months or longer. (NOTE: If FSD does complete a review based on a 50% change in income, the presumed child support amount must change by at least 20% before FSD staff will modify the order.)
** The current order does not require payment of child support. (NOTE: If the order includes a finding that the guideline amount is unjust and inappropriate and the circumstances are the same as when the order was entered, FSD will not review your order for possible modification.)

Well, at least you gave it your best shot. Will you even still need daycare in 2009?