Nasty Debt Collectors - even though I want to pay!

[nickbn]

What is the name of your state? CA


I cosigned on a car loan a couple years ago. The person I was "helping" basically paid off all of the loan except for the LAST payment. So on top of that, there is a $50 interest fee, which comes to a total of $400 bucks. I just needed to see why my co-signer didn't pay.

1st phone call - I told them I would need look at bank statements, and call the Car Dealer to see what went wrong. They gave a nice suggestion to pay back the money. Person that was handling the case even gave me an address to mail the payment to.

I called back later that day and reached a different person, a woman, who gave me a lesser offer to pay back the money $200! What a deal... but hey, i still needed to verify it before paying. Also gave me the same address to mail the payment to.

After doing some research, I found that in fact, the check had bounced. I got the money from my co-signer to pay it off right now. At this point, I thought it was going to be easy. Money in hand, ready to pay:

Called them back today, got a hold of a different person. I told him that the last payment bounced from the research I did and that I was going to write him a check to pay this off in the FULL amount ($300). He said that he wanted to do a direct transfer and for me to recite the bank account information over to him, and he was going to record the conversation. He basically wanted this money sent over before that call ended. After refusing to give him that info, i asked him why he didn't want to take a personal check anymore. He said that the earlier two reps were new and were not supposed to do that by policy. Furthermore, it could get worse by being lost in the mail, etc. He gave me the option of doing a Walmart moneygram (but would cost me additional 10 bucks). I told him that i would just mail him this check and certify it, signature required, etc. He said that if I sent him it in this way, he would refuse to take the payment, and the interest would just pile up. What's his problem here? Is he scared of bounced checks to the point that he refuses to take mine? (I didn't mention the bounce check was the other person's). He starting getting angry and I just hung up.

What are my options here?

I didn't want to give him bank account information or debit card information as he requested, due to that being a very weird way to take payments. I think he wanted me to read the information off my personal check. When i read on this forum of people getting bank accounts frozen, i'm glad i didn't do that.

• Was this the right thing to do?
• Is it wrong for them not to take personal checks?
• What's the safest way to pay this without forwarding over sensitive information?

How do i make sure that the debt is paid in full after I issue this Walmart moneygram or payment? I don't care if it costs me an extra 10 bucks. I need PROOF somehow and i would send this proof back to them as paid in full and also the Car Finance company to prove that it's been settled. The way they are acting, I cannot trust them with this. They could probably take the money and ignore me.

 

[Kanman]

You have legit concerns not to trust them. This sounds, just by their actions, like the lowest of debt collectors, the bottom feeders.

The reason they do not want a check is probably for a couple of reasons. One, checks are a form of a binding contract...you paid the loan and can then prove it by a cashed check. It is your receipt. This brings us to reason two.

The second reason is that without that check/proof of payment, the only thing you have is their word. If you have read any of my posts previously, I usually state that debt collectors lie, and they do. They either want access to your bank account so they can pull more funds out than what they say you owe. (There are many posts on this thread and others of such activity.) Or, they will claim never receiving such payment, and then either keep hounding you, or worst, sue you in court. This also occurs often.

Never trust a debt collector! Notice the amount fluctuates each time you call? They are playing you and smell blood ...or more appropriately, money. Have you even tried the original creditor yet to confirm and try and settle the amount?

As a last restort, and since it is such a small amount, you might as well get the lowest offer from the scummy debt collectors and settle...and GET IT IN WRITING or you will be just throwing away your money and still owe.

 

[nickbn]

You have legit concerns not to trust them. This sounds, just by their actions, like the lowest of debt collectors, the bottom feeders.

The reason they do not want a check is probably for a couple of reasons. One, checks are a form of a binding contract...you paid the loan and can then prove it by a cashed check. It is your receipt. This brings us to reason two.

The second reason is that without that check/proof of payment, the only thing you have is their word. If you have read any of my posts previously, I usually state that debt collectors lie, and they do. They either want access to your bank account so they can pull more funds out than what they say you owe. (There are many posts on this thread and others of such activity.) Or, they will claim never receiving such payment, and then either keep hounding you, or worst, sue you in court. This also occurs often.

Never trust a debt collector! Notice the amount fluctuates each time you call? They are playing you and smell blood ...or more appropriately, money. Have you even tried the original creditor yet to confirm and try and settle the amount?

As a last restort, and since it is such a small amount, you might as well get the lowest offer from the scummy debt collectors and settle...and GET IT IN WRITING or you will be just throwing away your money and still owe.

I've called the original creditor (the car financier) and they basically broke down the amount owed and said that this collection agency is now handling it.

the reason why i dont want to pay the lower amount is because it might bite me back in terms of being reported in the credit report, etc.

Do you have an idea of how I should pay this? Should i ask them to put the amount owed as a bill in writing and I can send them a check? Wouldn't that make them tack on more interest fees? I thought they didn't have the right to make me pay more than what's owed.

I seriously just want to pay the full amount to just get it out of my head and not worry about the "what ifs" .... So how do I prove I paid them now?

 

[TigerD]

1. Kanman is a moran think twice about following any advice he gives.

I cosigned on a car loan a couple years ago. The person I was "helping" basically paid off all of the loan except for the LAST payment. So on top of that, there is a $50 interest fee, which comes to a total of $400 bucks. I just needed to see why my co-signer didn't pay.

Co-signing is very bad. You take all the risk and get nothing.

Called them back today, got a hold of a different person. I told him that the last payment bounced from the research I did and that I was going to write him a check to pay this off in the FULL amount ($300). He said that he wanted to do a direct transfer and for me to recite the bank account information over to him, and he was going to record the conversation. He basically wanted this money sent over before that call ended.

Yup. That is how it is done. See the problem here is you got screwed by your friend. You maybe the best person on Earth, but you are in collections. That means you are just another debtor to the collector. Very few payments debtors say they are mailing in come in. While you may have been telling the truth, debtors lie.

After refusing to give him that info, i asked him why he didn't want to take a personal check anymore. He said that the earlier two reps were new and were not supposed to do that by policy.

Urgencies count. You never tell a debtor it is okay for them to mail it at some time in the future. The time to pay is now, while we are on the phone. Curious, why would you not give them the check info over the phone when you are sending them a printed copy of the check? All the larger payment processors scan copies of checks to the debtors file now anyway.

Furthermore, it could get worse by being lost in the mail, etc. He gave me the option of doing a Walmart moneygram (but would cost me additional 10 bucks).

$14.95 actually.

I told him that i would just mail him this check and certify it, signature required, etc. He said that if I sent him it in this way, he would refuse to take the payment, and the interest would just pile up. What's his problem here?

Simple. He can't mark it as a payment unless you make the arrangement over the phone. That means, when you mail it in, he doesn't get credit for the payment and it doesn't count for his bonus.

I didn't want to give him bank account information or debit card information as he requested, due to that being a very weird way to take payments.

Actually it is the industry standard for debt collections. We process millions of dollars a day like that.

I think he wanted me to read the information off my personal check. When i read on this forum of people getting bank accounts frozen, i'm glad i didn't do that.

Those aren't people in collections, those are people with judgments against them. That basically means they ignored it all they way through the collections process and court process and then were surprised that their account was attached.

• Was this the right thing to do? I'd say no -- you could have been done with it. The question you should be asking is when will this item report on to your credit report.
• Is it wrong for them not to take personal checks? Anything you send in will be credited to the account.
• What's the safest way to pay this without forwarding over sensitive information? Call them and pay by phone.

I don't understand why you think your banking information is "sensitive." You co-signed for the vehicle so they already have your SSN and credit report. Any actual sensitive information they all ready have. You are protected by law in the transaction. The FDCPA, see my links at the bottom of my posting for reference, prohibits removing more money than authorized or on a different date than agreed.

How do i make sure that the debt is paid in full after I issue this Walmart moneygram or payment? I don't care if it costs me an extra 10 bucks. I need PROOF somehow and i would send this proof back to them as paid in full and also the Car Finance company to prove that it's been settled. The way they are acting, I cannot trust them with this. They could probably take the money and ignore me.

Well, the way my company works is: If you pay by check or credit card over the phone and request a paid-in-full receipt, we will send it out as soon as the payment clears about 20 days for checks and 3 months for credit cards. If you pay by any other means, including mailing, moneygram and such, you will have to call and order your paid-in-full receipt and pay the doc fee of $25. Of course, that fee will have to paid over the phone at the time of order or you will have to mail your request and wait on the mailroom.

DC

 

[nickbn]

Curious, why would you not give them the check info over the phone when you are sending them a printed copy of the check? All the larger payment processors scan copies of checks to the debtors file now anyway.

Because it'll only show up as a withdrawl on a bank statement - nothing more nothing less. I need a written check with the image to show who it's paid to, the account being paid in question (account#). This is more evidence of proof than giving them check info ...it's the actual check itself

$14.95 actually.

Eh.. when you want to do something right, i don't see this being a problem.

Simple. He can't mark it as a payment unless you make the arrangement over the phone. That means, when you mail it in, he doesn't get credit for the payment and it doesn't count for his bonus.

I don't care about his bonus.. as long as it is considered payment ... i think that is absolutely fair .. i've made arrangements on two prior calls.. how is it legally possible that he can refuse payment when it'll be in writing along with the payment?

Well, the way my company works is: If you pay by check or credit card over the phone and request a paid-in-full receipt, we will send it out as soon as the payment clears about 20 days for checks and 3 months for credit cards. If you pay by any other means, including mailing, moneygram and such, you will have to call and order your paid-in-full receipt and pay the doc fee of $25. Of course, that fee will have to paid over the phone at the time of order or you will have to mail your request and wait on the mailroom.

The cashed check is the additional proof i'll need if i don't have an official letter from the collector.

 

[Kanman]

Please do not take any advice from a "debt collector." His information is very biased...obviously and like most collector's, bitter and hostile.

Here is a little find for you...

Paying the debt is also no guarantee that the nightmare will stop. The collector may decide that if you?re willing to pay at all, you could be made to pay more or all of the debt. Settling a debt for a smaller amount than the collectors says you owe could result in another agency trying to collect the unpaid portion. Or the collector might inform the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) that you've received 'income' in the form of forgiven debt.

Even if you get the collector to promise in writing that none of the above will happen, you would have to be willing to go to court if the agency reneged; and possibly face an unsympathetic judge or one who doesn't know much about collections law.

What should you do? Never give them any personal information, credit cards, banking info, etc. It WILL come back to bite you. You should call for some legal advice. Most lawyers listed in your area on the naca.net website will talk to you. There is also a lot of free legal counseling in many cities.

Again, following Debt Collector's advise above assumes that debt collectors follow the law, like they won't take rape your bank account due to FDCPA, but they do...just read the forums out there. Never, ever, trust a debt collector!

 

[TigerD]

1. You don't need a lawyer for this.
2. It can be as easy or as difficult as you choose to make it.

Because it'll only show up as a withdrawl on a bank statement - nothing more nothing less. I need a written check with the image to show who it's paid to, the account being paid in question (account#). This is more evidence of proof than giving them check info ...it's the actual check itself

Depending on the check processor the CA uses, they will either print a paper check and deposit it like a check you mail in. Or they will run it as an ACH transaction and you will have all the info on your bank statement.

I don't care about his bonus.. as long as it is considered payment ... i think that is absolutely fair .. i've made arrangements on two prior calls.. how is it legally possible that he can refuse payment when it'll be in writing along with the payment?

Anything you send in writing with the payment will just be thrown out. The collector will never see any of it. It will go to a mailroom and be entered by someone there. As for refusing a payment mailed in -- I've never seen that happen. Anything sent in will be credited to the account, however, collections will not stop until payment-in-full is received.

That would mean if you want a settlement (for less than the $400 owed) you are going to have to meet their terms. Also, a settlement will be reported to the credit bureaus as settled for less than the full amount, it is not a positive credit mark. Better than an open collection, but still a big ding. For that amount of money -- the bad mark isn't worth the savings in my opinion.

DC

 

[Kanman]

Nick... You never said who the debt collector is. Have you done any background searches on them? You may find other people in a very similar situation. Always good to know the enemy.

 

[nickbn]

1. You don't need a lawyer for this.
2. It can be as easy or as difficult as you choose to make it.


Depending on the check processor the CA uses, they will either print a paper check and deposit it like a check you mail in. Or they will run it as an ACH transaction and you will have all the info on your bank statement.


Anything you send in writing with the payment will just be thrown out. The collector will never see any of it. It will go to a mailroom and be entered by someone there. As for refusing a payment mailed in -- I've never seen that happen. Anything sent in will be credited to the account, however, collections will not stop until payment-in-full is received.

That would mean if you want a settlement (for less than the $400 owed) you are going to have to meet their terms. Also, a settlement will be reported to the credit bureaus as settled for less than the full amount, it is not a positive credit mark. Better than an open collection, but still a big ding. For that amount of money -- the bad mark isn't worth the savings in my opinion.

DC

Ok, I hope you had read my earlier posts, because I INTEND to pay the full amount of $400. I will mail the full amount as payment via check. This should satisfy their requirements.

 

[boswd]

If you are so worried about not wanting to give your bank account info over the phone, just pay by debit card. The transaction will post to your account almost immediatly and you have proof there. They're not going to take your debit account number and try to access your account, 1. it's extremly tough to do with securtity measures set in place 2. It's totally illegal for them to seize it without a court order.
I know dealing with collectors can be a very paranoid situation, trust me I've dealt with at least four, and on each one I have had the automatic pay by check on each month of the agreement and have never once had a problem with them taking out more than what we agreed on. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't very paranoid about doing it for long term
But if you are paying it off in full with your debit card you won't have any problems your transaction will be posted and it will be all over. If you are paranoid about them accessing your account in the future what makes you think they can't get the same information from the check you mailed in?
Pay it by debit card and be done with it so you can get on with your life and start to repair the damage it has cost your credit report. Don't settle as my motto goes Paid looks better than Settled.

 

[Kanman]

LOL... Please post back here when they take out $800 or more from your debit card rather than the $400, just so I can say told you so.

So, where is the proof that you agreed on $400 on your debit card? Was that an oral agreement on the PHONE? Oh my, that is basically your word against someone who lies for a living.

A check is a receipt, they can not take any more money out of your account than what is specified on PAPER. A debit card is free reign. Debt collector, "No sir, I specifically heard you say $800 to settle." Where is your proof he is incorrect?

Yes you could sue them, but that would entail $$ for a lawyer, a court ruling, months waiting for them to refund the money. They know you will never do it over such a small amount. Go for the wallet and get as much as they can. That's their motto. They have you over a barrel and they know it.

The question you have to ask is, why won't they take a check?

 

[boswd]

The proof is the transaction posted to your account. It will post to your account with all the transaction information from they type (check card) Transaction description ( includes the name of the company and a transaction number) Date of transaction a referennce number and the amount. That is your proof, just as valid as a paper check.
Why would they take out more than what is owed?

 

[Zigner]

It's interesting that I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread point out that you should get all settlement offers IN WRITING.
If you have a settlement offer in writing, then you can feel much more secure with any method you use to pay.

 

[nickbn]

It's interesting that I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread point out that you should get all settlement offers IN WRITING.
If you have a settlement offer in writing, then you can feel much more secure with any method you use to pay.

This is exactly what i was about to post next. Thank you!

1) I plan on calling them and at least getting the offer in writing and to state that it be paid in full once they cash the check.
2) Also i'll write on the check that if they cash it, it will constitute payment in full to the account # listed on the check.


I'll let you know if i run to any trouble with this process, it should be easy, but they are making it harder than it actually is.

 

[Kanman]

It's interesting that I haven't seen ANYONE in this thread point out that you should get all settlement offers IN WRITING.
If you have a settlement offer in writing, then you can feel much more secure with any method you use to pay.

Actually...*raises hand* ... I did above...

As a last restort, and since it is such a small amount, you might as well get the lowest offer from the scummy debt collectors and settle...and GET IT IN WRITING or you will be just throwing away your money and still owe.

@nickbn... Good job, that is exactly what you should do. These scummy collectors work off commission, so it is also why they don't want a check. They want it on the records right away..as their plunder for the day, and they are also deceptive.

If you find nick that you are having trouble negotiating with the collector, ask for another or ask to speak to a supervisor. This may take a couple of tries...it's like negotiating for a new car with a cheesy car saleperson. Keep at it and stand your ground.