Suspension for poorly worded school policy.

[WishInew]

What is the name of your state? Massachusetts

My daughter was recently suspended from public school for "Destruction of Property due to arson" See facts at end....

According to the school handbook Arson is defined as
"Setting fire to or substantially damaging any school building or property"

I am in no way condoning my daughter's behavior she has been punished accordingly. Unfortunately the school suspension earned the girls and "F" in citizenship. They are not allowed to participate in Band, Sports or any extracurricular activities for the remainder of the school year. I feel our punishment, along with the 8 week fire safety class is adequate and the school suspension is unjustified. My question is does the above policy fit what the girls had done? When I read the policy is sounds to me like it only applies to school buildings or school property. Any help or insite will be greatly appreciated...

John

The facts... 45 min after leaving school my daughter and 2 friends went to another friends house after school. On the way to the friends house they found a lighter. They used the lighter to set fire to and burn a dozen or so leaves at the friends house (no parent was home at the time). A neighbor called 911 and reported smoke.. The girls put out the fire before the fire dept arrived. The fire investigator changed the 3 girls with "Burning a standing tree". During the pre-trial conferences the fire investigator acknoleged the only damage was to a "Some Leaves and mulch". All charges were dropped due to lack of malice on the girls part along with the girls agreeing to participate in a fire safety program.What is the name of your state?

 

[tigger22472]

what did the school say when you argued this point? I agree with you but what i think and the school board thinks may be different.. however if it were me I'd argue with the school board over it.

 

[WishInew]

what did the school say when you argued this point? I agree with you but what i think and the school board thinks may be different.. however if it were me I'd argue with the school board over it.

I had called the Chief information officer for the entire city... Unfortunately he was not very knowledgeable on the many points of the school policy or state Law... I told him many of the school policies were poorly worded and open ended... I want to argue the point but I am afraid they will just say the girls lit fire to property end of story and will ignore the fact their policy is poorly worded... to me the statement "Setting fire to or substantially damaging any school building or property" implies School buildings or school property am I wrong??

 

[CdwJava]

Since the school likely has limited jurisdiction over the students both to and from school, they could likely change the grounds to something else and still suspend her. My guess is that commiting a criminal act may be grounds for suspension. I doubt that you will get your daughter out of a suspension or explusion with this argument on the semantics of the arson as they can almost certainly find SOMETHING to expel her for.

Plus, if state law allows her to be suspended or expelled, it may really not matter about the handbook's wording.

Now, how much are you willing to spend to pursue this? You might consider consulting an attorney to argue your points if you do no fare well with the school board on appeal.

Here is one resource:

http://www.clcm.org/student_suspension.htm



- Carl

 

[WishInew]

Since the school likely has limited jurisdiction over the students both to and from school, they could likely change the grounds to something else and still suspend her. My guess is that commiting a criminal act may be grounds for suspension. I doubt that you will get your daughter out of a suspension or explusion with this argument on the semantics of the arson as they can almost certainly find SOMETHING to expel her for.

Plus, if state law allows her to be suspended or expelled, it may really not matter about the handbook's wording.

Now, how much are you willing to spend to pursue this? You might consider consulting an attorney to argue your points if you do no fare well with the school board on appeal.

Here is one resource:

http://www.clcm.org/student_suspension.htm


- Carl

Thank you for the reply Carl.. My daughter was only suspended for 3 days. But because she now has and "F" in citizenship she cannot march in the school parade, play softball, or participate in any extracurricular activity... My wife called me at work the other day saying my daughter spent 2hours in the library at school... She told me my daughter's class was watching the "Happy Feet" movie in the auditorium, but our daughter couldn't attend because of her "F" in citizenship, this makes me upset... I just hate the fact that policy can be twisted and manipulated into being whatever they want regardless of how they construct it... why can't policy and laws be more black and white? And as for committing a criminal act shouldn't the school take the legal proceedings into consideration? Being accused of a crime and being convicted of one are completely different things.. She was accused, but all charges were dropped....

Btw the official school policy is the school has jurisdiction over students from the time they leave home in the morning, until the time they return home.

Also our great school system accused a 1st grade boy of sexual harassment.
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/archive/index.php/t-94306.html

A Brockton first-grader was suspended from school for three days last month after school officials said that he sexually harassed a girl in his class.

NewsCenter 5's Jim Boyd reported Tuesday that officials at the Downey Elementary School called the boy's mother, Berthena Dorinvil, on Jan. 30, and asked her to pick up her child from the school. Dorinvil said that officials told her that her son was being suspended for sexually harassing a 6-year-old female classmate.

"My son told me that the girl touched him first, so he touched her back," Dorinvil said. "I was shocked. I was crying. I was out of control," Dorinvil said.

School officials would not speak on camera, and police officers were posted at the school Tuesday afternoon. The school superintendent released a statement that said, "The safety and well-being of Brockton public school students and staff is of the utmost important to us, and we take all allegations of sexual harassment seriously."

Dorinvil has asked school officials to transfer her son to another school, but officials have not agreed to her request.

"When he comes home, he says, 'Mommy, are police going to arrest me?' I can't even make a phone call without him (asking) who I am speaking to. He is very frustrated because he is a very emotional kid. It bothers me so much to see my son go through this," Dorinvil said.

 

[CdwJava]

The school holds some liability for the student's actions until they have reached their destination after school. Had her burning of leaves resulted in damage, injury, or death, the school could have been held at least partly liable. The punishment is generally set down not as a punishment for the "crime", but as a deterrent for future acts. Because the justice system has chosen not to act does not mean that the schools or parents do not have to.

I can honestly say that had one of my children done such a thing they would likely have suffered a far greater penalty at my hands than not being able to march or see a movie ... they would likely be in indentured servitude to the property owner for at least a month, and grounded for at least that long. Having seen the results of "accidental" fires, I would have far less sympathy than most anyone I know.

In any event, it may not seem fair and it may seem draconian, but several years ago the schools were engaged in all manner of activity to conceal criminal acts from the public and shielding children from punishment. While some of the actions might seem overkill at times, there is a reason we have come to this point. Since discretion failed to work (and principals and schools should not be in the business of being a mini justice system) we have replaced discretion with often vague rules on one hand, and intransigent iron rules on the other.

I would encourage you to continue the appeals process as it exists. After you have exhausted the due process remedies within the system, you might consider consulting an attorney if the expenditure of a couple grand is worth it to you in the long run. And I DO hope your daughter has learned a very grave lesson from all this.

- Carl

 

[Nedved]

In massachusetts, the school can only suspend you for things that happen outside of school if:

1: you are charged with a felony, AND
2: your continued presence at the school would have a 'substantial detrimental affect' on the general welfare of the school

It doesn't matter if the school handbook says they can suspend your for something other than that outside of school -- they cant. The school cannot pass laws that are contrary to the state laws. If you really want to fight it, find a judge and ask him or her to overturn the suspension and force the school to expunge it from her student record.

If you want to make a huge deal out of it, blow ten grand on an attorney and sue them. You would almost definatly win, but you probably wouldn't get very much. Not at all worth it IMO

 

[cbg]

Thus speaketh that great expert on all things, the tenth grader.

 

[Zigner]

In massachusetts, the school can only suspend you for things that happen outside of school if:

1: you are charged with a felony, AND
2: your continued presence at the school would have a 'substantial detrimental affect' on the general welfare of the school

BUT, the point is that this is technically IN school, since the school still has jurisdiction.

 

[Silverplum]

Thank you for the reply Carl.. My daughter was only suspended for 3 days. But because she now has and "F" in citizenship she cannot march in the school parade, play softball, or participate in any extracurricular activity... My wife called me at work the other day saying my daughter spent 2hours in the library at school... She told me my daughter's class was watching the "Happy Feet" movie in the auditorium, but our daughter couldn't attend because of her "F" in citizenship, this makes me upset...

O, the Horror!
O, the Malfeasance!
O, the Injustice!



No wonder your kid is a pyro. Wait for even more manifestations of her spoiled craziness in the near future!