98 Ford Ranger bought from dealer didn't pass state inspection

[Rangergal84]

What is the name of your state? PA

I'm new at posting here, but I don't really know what to do about this.

On March 17, 2007 I purchased my first truck from a dealership, a used 98 Ford Ranger. When looking the truck over, my father and I asked the dealer why the inspection stickers didn't match, he simply told us he didn't know and went on to talk about how emissions didn't need to be done where they were located or something.

The emissions sticker was good till Dec '07, December of '06 was when the dealer purchased the vehicle as a trade in; and the state inspection sticker said March '07. I honestly don't remember why, but my father and I were thinking the state inspection was good till March '08, so I didn't think anything of it. I think I remember signing an "as-is", but the truck did come with a 30 day warranty or 1,000 mile, whichever came first --I thought "as-is" vehicles didn't come with warranties. The dealer owner asked if I'd take it as is, and I said yes, but that was after discussing with him that the a/c didn't work and it needed new tires. Those were the ONLY TWO reasons buying it "as-is" didn't phase me.

Anyways. Long story short. I was driving down the road the first week of May and glanced at my windshield and noticed it said March '07 instead of '08 so I freaked out and got the truck inspected the next week.

Shockingly, the truck didn't pass inspection. Two ball bearings in the front were completely shot. The whole thing in the end cost me $572. I was in disbelief.

I guess my main question is, do I have a case here that I should pursue or should I just suck it up and take in the costs? I looked up PAcode online and under 301.2. Advertising and sales presentation requirements it stated that if the seller knows that they are selling a vehicle that doesn't pass, and doesn't disclose the information, that that is in violation, I guess. I just wanted to see if I understood it correctly. I didn't know the truck was going to fail state inspection, otherwise, I wouldn't have bought it. I'm just really lost. It was my first time buying a vehicle from a dealer, I know they can be shady, but I didn't expect this to happen, especially since it was from a certified dealership. I just don't know if I should go after them for the inspection costs.

If I did sign an "as-is", and I know, I'm an idiot for not remembering, I don't have a copy of it. I hunted through all my papers. I don't know. Any help would be greatly appreciated.What is the name of your state?

 

[BL]

You need to find out from PA DMV safety inspections division what is required of a auto dealer in respects to selling the vehicle that passes safety inspections and affixing the stickers .

As in my State , I took the dealer to small claims Court , with the invoice from a repair shop that they stated on the invoice there is no way these safety defects could have occurred in the short amount of time .

I won the safety repair and parts amount .

I also made a complaint with DMV and both the dealer and insp. shop were fined . There was a wrong insp. sticker affixed which also helped my case .

If in fact the dealer is required to inspect the vehicle and affix an insp. sticker upon the sale , then your in good shape for a lawsuit .

I'd offer them a chance to reimburse you first , and they won't inform the court you contacted them first and requested them to .

Sounds like your on the right track .

BTW , this is NOT a lemon Law issue .

 

[Rangergal84]

Thank you for your insight, I already put the DMV advice into action. I apologize as well, I was just unsure of which thread to stick this car problem and saw the other car problems as well and figured this was decent enough.

Other questions along with this case, as well though, referring to the "as-is" contract. If I did sign a paper stating I was buying the truck off the lot "as-is". Does that completely make me helpless against getting the inspection money back? Should I not even bother with a small claims court if I signed a paper like this? I only agreed to the "as-is" because the a/c didn't work and it needed new tires and I stated this to the dealership owner over the phone. I was still unaware of its failure at inspection.

Or if PA does have a law stating that I needed to know that the vehicle did not pass inspection and they just decided not to disclose the information to me, does that throw the "as-is" contract out the window? I never should have signed it, but I didn't think anything of it. This is the only thing keeping me from continuing, I know everything is worth trying, but if it'll fail because I signed this...I don't know

 

[BL]

Thank you for your insight, I already put the DMV advice into action. I apologize as well, I was just unsure of which thread to stick this car problem and saw the other car problems as well and figured this was decent enough.

Other questions along with this case, as well though, referring to the "as-is" contract. If I did sign a paper stating I was buying the truck off the lot "as-is". Does that completely make me helpless against getting the inspection money back? Should I not even bother with a small claims court if I signed a paper like this? I only agreed to the "as-is" because the a/c didn't work and it needed new tires and I stated this to the dealership owner over the phone. I was still unaware of its failure at inspection.

Or if PA does have a law stating that I needed to know that the vehicle did not pass inspection and they just decided not to disclose the information to me, does that throw the "as-is" contract out the window? I never should have signed it, but I didn't think anything of it. This is the only thing keeping me from continuing, I know everything is worth trying, but if it'll fail because I signed this...I don't know

"as-is" would not matter if the Law States they must sell a passable safe roadworthy auto , and affix , or have it inspected with a insp. sticker , and the dealer did not conform to the Laws .

You also cited another law , which you could also use as misrepresented .

You said you checked with the DMV safety insp. division to get the laws ?

 

[Rangergal84]

I did not check with the DMV to get the laws, I sent the DMV an email stating all of my questions about dealerships and inspection stickers though and was told it could take two business days. Hopefully I'll get a response by Tuesday or I'll make time and drive out. I was looking up Pennsylvania state codes and found some information on the attorney general's webpage for the consumer. If you're interested in looking:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Consumers/bcp_book.pdf

page 9 states advertisements must disclose certain information including if the car will not pass inspection.

I also found that same under the PA code (http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/037/chapter301/s301.2.html):

For the purposes of this chapter, a motor vehicle which is offered for sale is represented to be roadworthy, and the advertiser or seller shall disclose prior to sale the following conditions if the advertiser or seller knows or should know that the conditions exist in the motor vehicle:

(i) Frame bent, cracked or twisted.

(ii) Engine block or head cracked.

(iii) Vehicle unable to pass State inspection.

(iv) Transmission damaged, defective or so deteriorated as to require replacement.

(v) Vehicle flood damaged.

(vi) Differential damaged, defective or so deteriorated as to require replacement.

I was just unsure if the "as-is" paper would keep the dealer safe if I chose to attempt to get my money for the inspection. I've never done a small claims court or taken anyone to court, I haven't even talked to the dealership yet, I wanted to get my facts straight before trying anything, but the more I look things over, the more I think I could get the money I spent on the truck to pass inspection back. I still have the receipt from pep boys stating that the ball bearings were completely shot, figured that would help. The "as-is" paper was making me nervous though.

If anything, I need to find anything that states that the motor company had the inspection done, but it failed. I also asked the DMV where I could find that as well.

I figured if I had everything gathered up as evidence, I could write the motor company a letter and if they don't want to settle it out of court, then I guess I'll file a small claims. I just need to figure out how to go about doing all of this in my county.

 

[BL]

http://research.lawyers.com/Pennsylvania-Small-Claims.html

Small claims court is pretty informal . Get your evidences ( ALL ) and your ducks in a row . Stick to the facts of what happened with your evidence ( as I said at the point it would not pass , state there is no way the safety defects could have happened in that short amount of time ) , with all your other Laws .

Sounds like you have a good chance .

Always say your honor when addressing the court , try looking at your honor when testifying once in a while .

Try not to be nervous and lose thought , or state the wrong answers because of nervousness . Practice your testimony over and over with you evidence at home .

Talk loud enough so the judge or arbitrator can hear you , but not overly loud .

If the Judge asked you question during testimony , stop talking and answer .

Be and act positive with confidence , respect the court .

Listen carefully to your opponents testimony , you should get a chance to ask them questions , or rebut their testimony .

Small claims is really not bad at all , if you can go and sit in on a few cases to get the feel , before your case .

You do not have to wear a suit , but dress nicely , although many litigants come in work or street cloths .

 

[Rangergal84]

Thanks so much. The sitting in on a few cases sounds like a really great idea. It might help me get over nervousness. This of course is if I have to go to court to get reimbursed. I'm waiting for the DMV to reply with their "laws" and then I'll go from there. Thank you yet again, you're awesome.

 

[DRTDEVL]

I don't understand the case... Is there one?

You bought a NINE YEAR OLD FORD. It did not have a "rejection" sticker... But it had an inspection sticker that was set to expire 2 weeks after purchase. You never really looked at the inspection sticker for 6 weeks after your purchase, realized it had expired a month prior, took it in for an inspection, and it failed for a WEAR ITEM! Yes, the ball joints you had replaced are considered wear items.

Your biggest problem will be proving they knew it would not pass inspection... If they knew, it would have a rejection sticker from when they had it inspected. Why didn't you have an independent mechanic look at the truck first? It's 9 years old after all, so you never know what you're gonna get (especially with a Ford). Any mechanic worth his salt would have quickly found the bad ball joints and given you an estimate for repair.

Now since you never had it inspected by an independent mechanic, you are talking lawsuit against a company when you have no evidence of wrongdoing on their part... Only your frustration for having to spend money to fix your truck. This "case" is destined for failure. Cut your losses, chalk it up as a learning experience, and have every future vehicle you think of purchasing inspected by a mechanic PRIOR to your purchase.

 

[Rangergal84]

I don't understand the case... Is there one?

You bought a NINE YEAR OLD FORD. It did not have a "rejection" sticker... But it had an inspection sticker that was set to expire 2 weeks after purchase. You never really looked at the inspection sticker for 6 weeks after your purchase, realized it had expired a month prior, took it in for an inspection, and it failed for a WEAR ITEM! Yes, the ball joints you had replaced are considered wear items.

Your biggest problem will be proving they knew it would not pass inspection... If they knew, it would have a rejection sticker from when they had it inspected. Why didn't you have an independent mechanic look at the truck first? It's 9 years old after all, so you never know what you're gonna get (especially with a Ford). Any mechanic worth his salt would have quickly found the bad ball joints and given you an estimate for repair.

Now since you never had it inspected by an independent mechanic, you are talking lawsuit against a company when you have no evidence of wrongdoing on their part... Only your frustration for having to spend money to fix your truck. This "case" is destined for failure. Cut your losses, chalk it up as a learning experience, and have every future vehicle you think of purchasing inspected by a mechanic PRIOR to your purchase.

Did you by any chance read the thread where it is illegal to sell a vehicle in the state of PA without notifying the buyer that the vehicle would not pass inspection?

Did you also read the thread where I typed that the inspection stickers were different?

Did you never read the thread where I stated that the dealership had purchased the truck from the previous owner the month that the emissions sticker was stamped for?

And NO, vehicles in the state of Pennsylvania DO NOT get a rejection sticker placed upon them when they fail inspection. My father took his LeMans to have it inspected full knowing it was going to fail because he's in the process of restoring it, but he wanted to know what needed done. There is NO rejection sticker on it and it's been a few years and it still has the same inspection stickers on it. Each state is different, I have no idea where you are from, but in PA it is not done like that--if it's like that in your state, I wish ours was like that as well. It says your location is Germany? I don't know if you're from the states or not but it is different over here.

Note: You said this is a 9 year old vehicle. Ball joints wear on all vehicles after an amount of time passes. My father recently had to have one of his replaced and it's a 2001 HONDA, not to mention his 2001 JEEP needed them done as well. If this is the first time my ford needed it. Yes these are WEAR ITEMS, BUT they are also SAFETY items! Do you know what happens if a ball joint breaks while driving???? Inspections are for SAFETY, ANYTHING can wear on a car! There are other things on that truck that are worn and need replaced but it DIDN'T fail inspection because of those!

Get your facts straight and read things through first before you go posting things you know nothing about. Especially if you don't understand the case as you stated and decide to criticize someone for their questions, this is what this forum is here for. If you don't understand what is going on, there is no point in posting anything unless you yourself have questions.

I did my homework, found when my truck was last inspected and any notes that went with it from the DMV. Also, insult Ford all you want, I'm sure I could insult some of the vehicles you own, but this thread wasn't about insulting the brand of truck I chose to buy. I also own a Honda Prelude, so I like all sorts of cars. I'm sick of truck people bashing other truck people, it's not worth it. Besides, the best truck would have an chevy tranny, ford body and a dodge engine. Thanks.

Not to mention, this wasn't a lawsuit against FORD the company, it was against a dealership. My friend bought a mustang from a dealership once and they bought him the headlight he needed to pass his inspection. ALSO, I WON the case, so maybe you should look more into something before trying to give out horrible advice. It never hurts to try anything once.

The only thing I COMPLETELY agree with you about is getting a mechanic to look at it beforehand. I will ALWAYS do that with my future vehicles now after this. I just gave myself an excuse not to do it when I bought it, which I shouldn't have. I decided it was too far away and would complicate too much, but I was an idiot on that line. I told myself the dealership took care of it and the vehicle should be fine.

P.S. If your thread wasn't supposed to come out as nasty as it sounded, I apologize for my thread, otherwise I don't. You caught me in a not so great mood.

 

[DRTDEVL]

Did you by any chance read the thread where it is illegal to sell a vehicle in the state of PA without notifying the buyer that the vehicle would not pass inspection?

Yes.

Did you also read the thread where I typed that the inspection stickers were different?

Yes. Doesn't mean anything other than emissions and safety were completed at different times.

Did you never read the thread where I stated that the dealership had purchased the truck from the previous owner the month that the emissions sticker was stamped for?

And this proves what exactly? Does PA require all vehicles sold by a dealer to pass emissions prior to sale?

And NO, vehicles in the state of Pennsylvania DO NOT get a rejection sticker placed upon them when they fail inspection. My father took his LeMans to have it inspected full knowing it was going to fail because he's in the process of restoring it, but he wanted to know what needed done. There is NO rejection sticker on it and it's been a few years and it still has the same inspection stickers on it. Each state is different, I have no idea where you are from, but in PA it is not done like that--if it's like that in your state, I wish ours was like that as well. It says your location is Germany? I don't know if you're from the states or not but it is different over here.

I have lived in many states, and they all had some form of rejection sticker affixed in the place of the inspection sticker whenever a vehicle failed the inspection. I am only stationed in Germany with the military. Heck, they don't use a sticker here, but you can't renew tags or transfer the vehicle without a copy of the safety inspection report, so that's their angle to cover it.

Note: You said this is a 9 year old vehicle. Ball joints wear on all vehicles after an amount of time passes. My father recently had to have one of his replaced and it's a 2001 HONDA, not to mention his 2001 JEEP needed them done as well. If this is the first time my ford needed it. Yes these are WEAR ITEMS, BUT they are also SAFETY items! Do you know what happens if a ball joint breaks while driving???? Inspections are for SAFETY, ANYTHING can wear on a car! There are other things on that truck that are worn and need replaced but it DIDN'T fail inspection because of those!

Most wear items are safety items... Brakes? Clutch? Tires? Wiper Blades? Ball Joints? They all have a direct effect on the safety of the vehicle. They are designed to wear so that they provide the maximum protection for a set period of time, rather than minimal protection forever.

Yes, I DO know what happens when a ball joint breaks. Usually they do not break, though... The ball wears down to the point where it can slip out of the socket causing catastrophic failure, loss of steering, and you wreck. Your father's Jeep, however, should have been covered or refunded under a recall ordered by the NHTSA. Stress cracks formed over time, causing premature failure on several Jeeps (any with independent front suspension, e.g. Liberty, Grand Cherokee) along with the Dodge Dakota truck lineup.

Get your facts straight and read things through first before you go posting things you know nothing about. Especially if you don't understand the case as you stated and decide to criticize someone for their questions, this is what this forum is here for. If you don't understand what is going on, there is no point in posting anything unless you yourself have questions.

I asked questions... "I don't understand the case... Is there one?" "Why didn't you have an independent mechanic look at the truck first?"

Just trying to get all the facts.

I did my homework, found when my truck was last inspected and any notes that went with it from the DMV. Also, insult Ford all you want, I'm sure I could insult some of the vehicles you own, but this thread wasn't about insulting the brand of truck I chose to buy. I also own a Honda Prelude, so I like all sorts of cars. I'm sick of truck people bashing other truck people, it's not worth it. Besides, the best truck would have an chevy tranny, ford body and a dodge engine. Thanks.

Does this mean you were able to find HARD EVIDENCE the dealer knew the truck failed? Does this report list the prior owner or the dealer taking it through the inspection?

These details may still kill any case.

As for the "perfect truck"? Close, but no cigar. The body includes the electrical system, and I don't see any product line repeatedly recalled for electrical fires from the ignition system ever entering my garage. Try Toyota body (with overseas version 1-ton HiLux frame), Cummins Engine, Eaton transmission (ya might wanna Google that), Rockwell transfer case, Rockwell Axles.

Besides, I only threw in the Ford bashing to egg you on... I just couldn't help myself. Your truck is actually a Mazda.

Not to mention, this wasn't a lawsuit against FORD the company, it was against a dealership. My friend bought a mustang from a dealership once and they bought him the headlight he needed to pass his inspection. ALSO, I WON the case, so maybe you should look more into something before trying to give out horrible advice. It never hurts to try anything once.

The dealership is a company. That's what I was referring to.

What case did you win? I think you got a little off tangent here.

The only thing I COMPLETELY agree with you about is getting a mechanic to look at it beforehand. I will ALWAYS do that with my future vehicles now after this. I just gave myself an excuse not to do it when I bought it, which I shouldn't have. I decided it was too far away and would complicate too much, but I was an idiot on that line. I told myself the dealership took care of it and the vehicle should be fine.

Caveat Emptor.

P.S. If your thread wasn't supposed to come out as nasty as it sounded, I apologize for my thread, otherwise I don't. You caught me in a not so great mood.

You caught me in combative mood... Touche'!

 

[Zigner]

Congrats to the OP on winning you case. Based on the information you presented, it was kind of "iffy". You should have had to prove that the dealership *knew* it wouldn't pass (which I doubt you could actually do).
My guess is that you got a consumer-friendly judge who felt that the dealership (as the "professionals" in this matter) should have known...

It really could have gone either way for you.

 

[Rangergal84]

The only way that I proved that the dealership knew that it didn't pass was because when they purchased the vehicle they were the ones that had the emissions and inspection done at their garage. It passed emissions so it got the sticker slapped onto it, it didn't pass inspection, so the old sticker just stayed. Due to PA law stating that if the person knows that it didn't pass inspection, they're to tell the future owner: I was never informed. Thankfully, I got a nice judge that helps the consumer I guess. I could completely see where this entire case is iffy, I never even wanted to attempt it, as DRTDEVL said, I was going to chalk it up as a learning experience and suffer my consequences, until I saw that one PA law.

As for DRTDEVL's comments, thank you for your high IQ, no I didn't think of a lot of that stuff.Your response made me laugh though and I needed that. Thanks. However, I did not like the fact that I felt like you are attacking me and my choice of truck in the response. I like my Ford. I hate egging on, maybe you should be a lawyer or something if you like to argue.

 

[DRTDEVL]

The only way that I proved that the dealership knew that it didn't pass was because when they purchased the vehicle they were the ones that had the emissions and inspection done at their garage. It passed emissions so it got the sticker slapped onto it, it didn't pass inspection, so the old sticker just stayed. Due to PA law stating that if the person knows that it didn't pass inspection, they're to tell the future owner: I was never informed. Thankfully, I got a nice judge that helps the consumer I guess. I could completely see where this entire case is iffy, I never even wanted to attempt it, as DRTDEVL said, I was going to chalk it up as a learning experience and suffer my consequences, until I saw that one PA law.

As for DRTDEVL's comments, thank you for your high IQ, no I didn't think of a lot of that stuff.Your response made me laugh though and I needed that. Thanks. However, I did not like the fact that I felt like you are attacking me and my choice of truck in the response. I like my Ford. I hate egging on, maybe you should be a lawyer or something if you like to argue.

No attack intended... Just your friendly neighborhood bulldog opening your eyes to potential pitfalls in your case (hey, their lawyer could have potentially exploited any one of these had you not covered your bases).

I'll just keep my high IQ in the Military for now... The nation needs as many able bodies as possible, and those of us with brains are especially important in times like these.