Worth bringing up? And if so, how?

[CJane]

What is the name of your state? MO

My oldest girl (10.5) has been telling me that her step-mom has said some things that make her uncomfortable.

1) That when she turns 12, she HAS to choose where she wants to live. That the current court orders 'expire' and she's expected to decide which parent she lives with full-time and will not be able to change her mind later. And then she says "And don't worry about making your mom sad. She'll have other kids and hardly miss you at all. Your daddy needs you."

2) That 'when' her and my ex move to a nearby suburb, that the girls will have to live with one of us 5 days/week, and it'll be really hard because we'll all end up back in court because I'm selfish and will insist that the kids live with me and I haven't even considered how hard it would be on her daughter not to see her sisters except on the weekends.

3) That the reason they've been taking the girls to doctors without telling me about it is that I can't be trusted to tell the doctors the truth and so they need to make sure that either their father or her (SMom) is there so the doctors get the full story.

IF I should bring this up when we're in court for the contempt, how do I go about it? Do I just get her on the stand and question her?

I know that my 10 year old can't testify, so I know that just saying "Wild told me X" isn't going to fly.

Should I just let it go? Is it something I should let go for the contempt stuff, and bring up in the next custody thing (which probably isn't too far away)?

If I SHOULD bring it up in court, do I have to include it in my original filing?

 

[Ohiogal]

If it happened before the contempt filing you can bring it up in this contempt hearing. Normally anything AFTER the filing is not admissible. However depending on how it was written and how you phrase the questions you never can tell. So bring it up and see what happens.
IF SM testifies ask her questions like the following:
You have told the children that there is an age where they CHOOSE who they want to live with, correct?
So Wild lied when she told me that you stated she had to choose at the age of 12, is that what you are saying?
You have taken her to the doctor, correct?
you have not informed the doctor of other individuals treating her correct?
You want leading questions on cross and confine them to yes or no answers. NO WIGGLE ROOM! And do NOT ask a question you do not already have an answer to. If Wild is in counseling and she says these things to her counselor then get a copy of the records and submit them to IMPEACH SM. It is time consuming and takes a lot of steps but it is possible to get it in in a round about way.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? MO

My oldest girl (10.5) has been telling me that her step-mom has said some things that make her uncomfortable.

1) That when she turns 12, she HAS to choose where she wants to live. That the current court orders 'expire' and she's expected to decide which parent she lives with full-time and will not be able to change her mind later. And then she says "And don't worry about making your mom sad. She'll have other kids and hardly miss you at all. Your daddy needs you."

2) That 'when' her and my ex move to a nearby suburb, that the girls will have to live with one of us 5 days/week, and it'll be really hard because we'll all end up back in court because I'm selfish and will insist that the kids live with me and I haven't even considered how hard it would be on her daughter not to see her sisters except on the weekends.

3) That the reason they've been taking the girls to doctors without telling me about it is that I can't be trusted to tell the doctors the truth and so they need to make sure that either their father or her (SMom) is there so the doctors get the full story.

IF I should bring this up when we're in court for the contempt, how do I go about it? Do I just get her on the stand and question her?

I know that my 10 year old can't testify, so I know that just saying "Wild told me X" isn't going to fly.

Should I just let it go? Is it something I should let go for the contempt stuff, and bring up in the next custody thing (which probably isn't too far away)?

If I SHOULD bring it up in court, do I have to include it in my original filing?

Those are really horrible things for her to be saying to your child. Yes, it needs to come out in court. However, I am not sure what is the best way to go about it. Have you brought it to the attention of the GAL? Could you have the GAL talk to your daughter about it and then testify in court?

I hope you set your daughter straight on what is the truth. That woman is reserving herself a special place in he!!

 

[frylover]

Not legal advice, but don't these idiots realize that when it is all said and done they are going to make these kids hate THEM? He is going to be lucky if they speak to him after they turn 18!

Good luck!

 

[CJane]

If Wild is in counseling and she says these things to her counselor then get a copy of the records and submit them to IMPEACH SM. It is time consuming and takes a lot of steps but it is possible to get it in in a round about way.

Whether or not the kids are in counseling is a whole 'nother issue. Ex says he's been taking them for 'awhile'... the counselor says she's not seeing the kids in a clinical setting, they just come in when ex and his wife are there for marriage counseling.

I really doubt though, that Wild would share any of this with a counselor that her father was taking her to. She's learned the hard way to go along with things at his house and not make waves.

 

[CJane]

Those are really horrible things for her to be saying to your child. Yes, it needs to come out in court. However, I am not sure what is the best way to go about it. Have you brought it to the attention of the GAL? Could you have the GAL talk to your daughter about it and then testify in court?

No, I haven't. I didn't know if the GAL was still a part of all of this since the custody/appeal is finally over.

Do I have to ask to have her (or another one) appointed again? Is that normal for a contempt hearing?

I hope you set your daughter straight on what is the truth. That woman is reserving herself a special place in he!!

Yes, I did. I told her that she not only doesn't HAVE to choose at 12, she wouldn't be allowed to even if she wanted to and not to worry - that no one is going to make her choose who to live with any more than we'd let her choose which school to go to or anything else major in her life.

Thankfully, her and I communicate quite well, but man, I'd love to have SMom removed from the parenting picture entirely.


OG ~ What's the proper way to do the 'prayer' at the end of the motion?

Right now it says this:

"All of the above shows a continuing effort on the part of the Petitioner to exclude Respondent from parenting decisions, educational and medical information, and from having any meaningful impact on the welfare of the children while in Petitioner’s custody. This is an apparent continuation of Petitioner’s well-documented attempts to usurp Respondent’s role in the children’s lives and alienate/isolate her from decisions impacting the health, education and welfare of the children in both a specific and broad manner.

WHEREFORE, it is in good faith and with full contemplation of the best interests of the children in mind that Respondent prays the Court find Petitioner in Contempt for each of the above instances separately and impose sanctions, at the court’s discretion, up to and including a change in physical placement in order to prevent further deliberate exclusion of Respondent from parenting decisions."

 

[LdiJ]

No, I haven't. I didn't know if the GAL was still a part of all of this since the custody/appeal is finally over.

Do I have to ask to have her (or another one) appointed again? Is that normal for a contempt hearing?




Yes, I did. I told her that she not only doesn't HAVE to choose at 12, she wouldn't be allowed to even if she wanted to and not to worry - that no one is going to make her choose who to live with any more than we'd let her choose which school to go to or anything else major in her life.

Thankfully, her and I communicate quite well, but man, I'd love to have SMom removed from the parenting picture entirely.


OG ~ What's the proper way to do the 'prayer' at the end of the motion?

Right now it says this:

"All of the above shows a continuing effort on the part of the Petitioner to exclude Respondent from parenting decisions, educational and medical information, and from having any meaningful impact on the welfare of the children while in Petitioner’s custody. This is an apparent continuation of Petitioner’s well-documented attempts to usurp Respondent’s role in the children’s lives and alienate/isolate her from decisions impacting the health, education and welfare of the children in both a specific and broad manner.

WHEREFORE, it is in good faith and with full contemplation of the best interests of the children in mind that Respondent prays the Court find Petitioner in Contempt for each of the above instances separately and impose sanctions, at the court’s discretion, up to and including a change in physical placement in order to prevent further deliberate exclusion of Respondent from parenting decisions."

I think that you can still involve the GAL....and if you can't, the GAL will tell you so.

I don't know what OG will say, but I think that is very well written.

 

[FITFatherof2]

Whether or not the kids are in counseling is a whole 'nother issue. Ex says he's been taking them for 'awhile'... the counselor says she's not seeing the kids in a clinical setting, they just come in when ex and his wife are there for marriage counseling.

I really doubt though, that Wild would share any of this with a counselor that her father was taking her to. She's learned the hard way to go along with things at his house and not make waves.

When you say that the kids are going to their counseling with them do you mean the kids are sitting in on the session? If thats the case would that not remove any confidentiality? If the kids are in session with them I would want to see the session notes to see the kids comments. She may not be seeing them as patiens, but that does not mean they are not speaking during the marriage session.

 

[Ohiogal]

I think that you can still involve the GAL....and if you can't, the GAL will tell you so.

I don't know what OG will say, but I think that is very well written.

I agree with LD. Her and I have been agreeing quite a bit lately.

 

[CJane]

When you say that the kids are going to their counseling with them do you mean the kids are sitting in on the session? If thats the case would that not remove any confidentiality? If the kids are in session with them I would want to see the session notes to see the kids comments. She may not be seeing them as patiens, but that does not mean they are not speaking during the marriage session.

Well, I just don't know. The counselor referred to it as marriage counseling. Ex, at Unruly's doctor's appointment last week referred to it as 'Blended Family Counseling', but when speaking to me he's said "I've been taking the kids to see a counselor" so I really don't know WHAT is going on, and I'm not sure how it falls into the realm of 'my business'.

I do know that the judge said to him "you can do whatever you want to, counseling-wise, when it comes to your family, but as soon as CJane's kids are involved, she's involved too". Clearly, that's not happening.

Thanks Ldi and OG ~ I was hoping you'd say that.

 

[BL]

I call it nit picking .. Don't get me wrong , but you've dragging**************.. and nit picked details .

Why in wHell , haven't you addressed ALL the issues in Court at once ????

Yep , I got your message eons ago . So what ? Don't you think a Court Of Law , especially the same Judge would tire of it all , and make rulings accordingly , and admonish the party(s) .

What I'm saying is if you haven't already done so, tread lightly , get your ducks in a row , and ask it all to be so , for at least a year or 2 .

 

[CJane]

I call it nit picking .. Don't get me wrong , but you've dragging**************.. and nit picked details .

Why in wHell , haven't you addressed ALL the issues in Court at once ????

Ummm... are you dense or deliberately obtuse? These are NEW ISSUES since the last time we were in court over a year ago.

Yep , I got your message eons ago . So what ? Don't you think a Court Of Law , especially the same Judge would tire of it all , and make rulings accordingly , and admonish the party(s) .

That's what the whole point of 'contempt' is, isn't it?

What I'm saying is if you haven't already done so, tread lightly , get your ducks in a row , and ask it all to be so , for at least a year or 2 .

I'm not totally sure what you're getting at. What I 'want to be so' is for my ex-husband to at least pretend to follow an ORDER OF THE COURT for 'at least a year or 2'. But considering the first instance of contempt took place 11 days after the filing of the new order, and I have an 8 PAGE filing up to now and have only included things that I have proof to back up, not anything that's just he-said/she-said then maybe you should crawl up his ass about judge's getting tired, not mine.

I know you dislike me. I could really care less why. But you're not helpful to me in a legal sense and in fact you're rarely helpful to anyone in a legal sense. So since I'm here for legal advice, you're of no use to me whatsoever.

Thanks anyway.

 

[BL]

Ummm... are you dense or deliberately obtuse? These are NEW ISSUES since the last time we were in court over a year ago.



That's what the whole point of 'contempt' is, isn't it?



I'm not totally sure what you're getting at. What I 'want to be so' is for my ex-husband to at least pretend to follow an ORDER OF THE COURT for 'at least a year or 2'. But considering the first instance of contempt took place 11 days after the filing of the new order, and I have an 8 PAGE filing up to now and have only included things that I have proof to back up, not anything that's just he-said/she-said then maybe you should crawl up his ass about judge's getting tired, not mine.

I know you dislike me. I could really care less why. But you're not helpful to me in a legal sense and in fact you're rarely helpful to anyone in a legal sense. So since I'm here for legal advice, you're of no use to me whatsoever.

Thanks anyway.[/QUOTE]


wELL IT ISN'T THE FIRST TIME , AND i SUSPECT IT WON'T BE THE LAST , sorry the caps came on for some unknown reason .

If anyone on the board here tried even for a bit to keep up with your problems , I commend them , you really need a paid attorney , not an advice board .

You seem to dislike my advice , WHY ? Lots a crap hits home .

I'm having a bad day today too, don't take yours out on me .
FYI , I'm not a nit picker . I have picked cherries though . " literally "

 

[CJane]

wELL IT ISN'T THE FIRST TIME , AND i SUSPECT IT WON'T BE THE LAST , sorry the caps came on for some unknown reason .

If anyone on the board here tried even for a bit to keep up with your problems , I commend them , you really need a paid attorney , not an advice board .

You seem to dislike my advice , WHY ? Lots a crap hits home .

I'm having a bad day today too, don't take yours out on me .
FYI , I'm not a nit picker . I have picked cherries though . " literally "

Yeah, it's because it hits home. Has nothing to do with the fact that you're largely incoherent and don't seem to read threads before responding to them.

Others don't seem to have one little bit of a problem keeping up with me. So I guess the problem, if there is one, lies with you.

 

[CJane]

Well the what's that child's story about crying wolf ???? After a while it gets tired . Why are you not in Court with your Attorney .

Again, is this you being dense or deliberately obtuse? This is about GOING TO COURT FOR CONTEMPT. So the reason we're not IN COURT is because I HAVEN'T FILED YET. It's rather important to me to make sure my motion is in order BEFORE filing. Hence, asking for advice ABOUT THE MOTION. Which is what this thread is about.

I think you like me , honestly ... Because , you'd make even a Judge's head spin .

Huh. Funny that the judge who officiated our divorce, handled our custody trial and all of its associated hearings, handled the restraining orders and will handle this case and the appeals court judges who NEVER met me or my ex and only read the transcripts from the trial seemed to follow along quite well.

Again, perhaps you should up the dosage or something.