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Medical Coverage

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Illinois
Hello, I am the non-custodial father of a 7 year old girl. Yesterday I received court papers that her mother is taking me back to court for more support (my income has raised...so ok) and she also wants me to pay full medical coverage and 100% of the bills that insurance does not cover. She is one of those sickly people that always thinks there is something wrong with her and her children. I'd be williing to carry the insurance, but what are the chances that I can have her pay the extra not covered by insurance. I feel this is needed in order for her to use the insurance "responsibly".
Thank you in advance.
 


Zephyr

Senior Member
most orders that I have seen direct the parents to split the uninsured medical costs.....not always equally, but they are usually split...you can certainly ask for whatever you want, getting it is the hard part
 

GrowUp!

Senior Member
Illinois
Hello, I am the non-custodial father of a 7 year old girl. Yesterday I received court papers that her mother is taking me back to court for more support (my income has raised...so ok) and she also wants me to pay full medical coverage and 100% of the bills that insurance does not cover. She is one of those sickly people that always thinks there is something wrong with her and her children. I'd be williing to carry the insurance, but what are the chances that I can have her pay the extra not covered by insurance. I feel this is needed in order for her to use the insurance "responsibly".
Thank you in advance.
When you file a response, object to paying full medical coverage and 100% of all uninsured costs. And if she didn't support her claims for such, point that out as well.

Check your statutes to see if the state considers insurance paid as "support". If it does, then that factors into the amount of support owed. That's one.

Also, if there is a parenting plan for joint legal, then start there and ask that any and all uninsured, reasonable medical costs are equally split, after the first $____ dollars, which are paid by the CP (again check statute for this because some states mandate that the CP is responsible for the first $100, $150, etc. of uninsured medical costs). Note the bolded language -- that IS important and make sure that specific term is in your order. If she refuses that, then do not settle for anything more than the amount of financial responsibility each parent has per the support order (which is standard in most cases). If you are not 100% responsible for support, then the chances are slim that you would have 100% of responsibility for medical costs. If she is hellbent on 100%, then let her prove to the court why it should be that way. She'd be fighting a very, very steep uphill battle.

But you should file a reply to it so your objections are on record.
 
Thanks for the great response...I appreciate it:)!
When you file a response, object to paying full medical coverage and 100% of all uninsured costs. And if she didn't support her claims for such, point that out as well.
*At this point I'm trying to figure out if this is major enough for an attorney, but reagardless I will file an objective response, I know it's good to have one, but the cost is so high*

Check your statutes to see if the state considers insurance paid as "support". If it does, then that factors into the amount of support owed. That's one.
*Ok, I can do that...do you have an Illinois link to that information?*

Also, if there is a parenting plan for joint legal,
*There is not a join legal parenting plan unfortunately*
then start there and ask that any and all uninsured, reasonable medical costs are equally split, after the first $____ dollars, which are paid by the CP (again check statute for this because some states mandate that the CP is responsible for the first $100, $150, etc. of uninsured medical costs). Note the bolded language -- that IS important and make sure that specific term is in your order.
*Perfect, I will make sure that is in the order.*

If she refuses that, then do not settle for anything more than the amount of financial responsibility each parent has per the support order (which is standard in most cases).
*Last support order per my request, they dropped me having to have medical coverage b/c I didn't have it available at my job and she had the medical card. *

If you are not 100% responsible for support, then the chances are slim that you would have 100% of responsibility for medical costs. If she is hellbent on 100%, then let her prove to the court why it should be that way. She'd be fighting a very, very steep uphill battle.
She doesn't have a job and is pregnant with her 3rd child (1 is my 7 y/o and others are younger and after our divorce), which she can't afford. She lives off the government and my support. She has a b/f that works odd jobs inbetween jail and prison time. I know that she has the medical card...she is just doing this to run up medical bills that I can't afford. She'll also have her public aid attorney with her, which may be another reason they are asking for medical. The sad thing is...if she isn't granted medical insurance and 100% off non-covered expenses...she'll just go back to using the medical card and the money that I pay for insurance will be a waste! She wants our daughter on Ritalin b/c she doesn't want to deal with her, she doesn't need it...she never acts out at my home. She was traveling 50 miles from her home to a dr. to get it and then had to stop b/c she didnt have the gas money to go that far. But, once I have to pay for it...she will get it all the time. And she complains about our daughters eyes and teeth, but even with the medical card she has never had them checked. Again, sure she will if I have to pay 100%.

I'm just afraid that if they compare incomes I will be responsible. I don't make alot, average...just enough to pay the bills. I don't have anything leisure...but she has no job and no income. Why should I have to pay more because she won't go out and get a job?!?


But you should file a reply to it so your objections are on record.
*Again, thank you! I'm off to a great start.*
 
Have you considered trying for custody?
Yes I have and still am in fact. I've consulted a few attorneys here and there...the only thing stopping me is finances, I don't have the money for an attorney. I'm just an average guy working paycheck to paycheck.

I know that she would be better off with me. Her mother is unstable, there is even domestic violence issues in that home. Her b/f (husband now I think), has beat her with an extension cord, threw a microwave at her and all kinds of horrible things. We've called DCFS a few times, and they know its bad there...but they always say it is hard to remove a child from their home. They did remove her one time for like 8 hours, took her to her maternal g-ma's house (whom threatened to beat her for telling on her mom and b/f). But, they said they couldn't keep her away anymore and let her go back.

A few months ago the school called DCFS b/c she had a burn on her back...which she claims her "moms b/f pushed her into the wood stove". When her mom found out she flipped out on the shcool. DCFS ended up closing the case b/c my daughter changed her story later. Obvioulsy b/c her mother told her to!


Suggestions?
 
Ok. I also have a thread in "Child Custody", but it all runs together in ways so I am posting to this thread. In the last week I have had 3 consultations with 3 different attorneys. After much thinking on the transportation issue, medical issue, child support, and custody...I think I have decided what to do for now. Let me know what you think...

I received notice to appear July 11th, ex wants more child support and me to provide medical insurance and pay 100% of bills not covered by insurance. State has jumped in, b/c CP has medical card. I have been considering and wanting custody for the last 18 months because my ex "has issues" as previously stated. After laying everything out during consultations I think that for now we will deal with the current issues to be presented the 11th and file for a motification in custody this winter. This gives me a little more time to save some money and pay off my child support arrears. I was between jobs in 04 and got a little behind, I currently pay reg. support and an extra towards the arrears. Plus this gives my ex more time to "hang herself".

So, a few questions for the 11th...

During a consultation an attorney told me that I can settle with the "Child Support Agency" before the court date. I know CP doesn't have to accept and can take it before the judge, but she doesn't have attorney and as long as it is more (it will almost double) she will accept. Attorney told me to take gross wages minus taxes and union dues and figure the 20% for child support and call Agency with my proposal after mailing documents to them. Anyone did this before or heard of doing so? I've heard they are only out for the state and not CP or NCP.

My checks range, I do heating and a/c service, and 2 months we were short handed and I had approx. 20 hours overtime...that is no longer the case...so, how does all that work? Even if they take a year average, I'm at a loss. Do they take my living expenses and other child (she resides with me) into account? After current support, rent, utilities and daycare I have nothing left? Is it a hard 20% in Illinois regardless of other factors?

Also, as stated before...with gas at $3.00 a gallon I'd like CP to share transportation. Her defense will be that she does not have reliable transportaion...can I ask that transportation "costs" be shared and possibly subtracted from child support total? She has reliable transportation to visit her husband when he is in and out of prison. I have to have a job to support our child, why can't she do the same?

As for medical, I have it available at job now....attorney stated it is in my best interest to provide it or state can come after me down the road. Fine, I will...but there is no reason she can't pay half of extra expenses...after all child is "our daughter"! Court papers state she wants me to carry medical insurance. Does this include dental and vision (these I dont have at work). If I dont have dental and have to pay 100% of extra...braces will set me back multiple thousands that I can't afford.

Alot to respond to, sorry...just want to be 100% prepared. Thanks!
 

fairisfair

Senior Member
Ok. I also have a thread in "Child Custody", but it all runs together in ways so I am posting to this thread. In the last week I have had 3 consultations with 3 different attorneys. After much thinking on the transportation issue, medical issue, child support, and custody...I think I have decided what to do for now. Let me know what you think...

I received notice to appear July 11th, ex wants more child support and me to provide medical insurance and pay 100% of bills not covered by insurance. State has jumped in, b/c CP has medical card. I have been considering and wanting custody for the last 18 months because my ex "has issues" as previously stated. After laying everything out during consultations I think that for now we will deal with the current issues to be presented the 11th and file for a motification in custody this winter. This gives me a little more time to save some money and pay off my child support arrears. I was between jobs in 04 and got a little behind, I currently pay reg. support and an extra towards the arrears. Plus this gives my ex more time to "hang herself".

So, a few questions for the 11th...

During a consultation an attorney told me that I can settle with the "Child Support Agency" before the court date. I know CP doesn't have to accept and can take it before the judge, but she doesn't have attorney and as long as it is more (it will almost double) she will accept. Attorney told me to take gross wages minus taxes and union dues and figure the 20% for child support and call Agency with my proposal after mailing documents to them. Anyone did this before or heard of doing so? I've heard they are only out for the state and not CP or NCP.

My checks range, I do heating and a/c service, and 2 months we were short handed and I had approx. 20 hours overtime...that is no longer the case...so, how does all that work? Even if they take a year average, I'm at a loss. Do they take my living expenses and other child (she resides with me) into account? After current support, rent, utilities and daycare I have nothing left? Is it a hard 20% in Illinois regardless of other factors?

Also, as stated before...with gas at $3.00 a gallon I'd like CP to share transportation. Her defense will be that she does not have reliable transportaion...can I ask that transportation "costs" be shared and possibly subtracted from child support total? She has reliable transportation to visit her husband when he is in and out of prison. I have to have a job to support our child, why can't she do the same?

As for medical, I have it available at job now....attorney stated it is in my best interest to provide it or state can come after me down the road. Fine, I will...but there is no reason she can't pay half of extra expenses...after all child is "our daughter"! Court papers state she wants me to carry medical insurance. Does this include dental and vision (these I dont have at work). If I dont have dental and have to pay 100% of extra...braces will set me back multiple thousands that I can't afford.

Alot to respond to, sorry...just want to be 100% prepared. Thanks!
I would ask that reasonable medical expenses be split 50/50, check your state statutes to see if there is a $$ amount that the CP is rsponsible for off the top. Many states have the first $250 to be paid by the CP or something like that. The amount of your insurance premium should be deducted from the child support amount., if you are the one providing coverage for the child.

In addition, I would ask that that the receiving parent be responsible for transportation for visitation. They aren't goint to give you costs deducted from the child support, but that way, if mom wants her back, she can darn well, come and get her.

I am sure others will have their ideas as well.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
So, a few questions for the 11th...

During a consultation an attorney told me that I can settle with the "Child Support Agency" before the court date. I know CP doesn't have to accept and can take it before the judge, but she doesn't have attorney and as long as it is more (it will almost double) she will accept. Attorney told me to take gross wages minus taxes and union dues and figure the 20% for child support and call Agency with my proposal after mailing documents to them. Anyone did this before or heard of doing so? I've heard they are only out for the state and not CP or NCP.
Based on your further questions below, I don't think that the state would "settle" with you.

My checks range, I do heating and a/c service, and 2 months we were short handed and I had approx. 20 hours overtime...that is no longer the case...so, how does all that work? Even if they take a year average, I'm at a loss. Do they take my living expenses and other child (she resides with me) into account? After current support, rent, utilities and daycare I have nothing left? Is it a hard 20% in Illinois regardless of other factors?
Its a hard 20% after Union Dues and TRUE taxes. What you are having withheld from your pay is not necessarily your true taxes. Since we are half way through the year, take your current income and withholding and multiple by 2 to project what you will gross and withhold for the year. Then rough out a tax return for those figures to find out what your true tax is. Deduct the tax (and your social security and medicare taxes) from your gross to determine your net. Figure out 20% of that and then divide it by the number of pay periods you have a year. (generally 52, or 26)

Or, if you typically get a refund, and its fairly consistant, then simply add that figure back to your net income...or if you consistant owe, deduct that figure from your net income.

If you want any other factors taken into consideration, you have to take it in front of the judge.

Also, as stated before...with gas at $3.00 a gallon I'd like CP to share transportation. Her defense will be that she does not have reliable transportaion...can I ask that transportation "costs" be shared and possibly subtracted from child support total? She has reliable transportation to visit her husband when he is in and out of prison. I have to have a job to support our child, why can't she do the same?
That's a matter that would have to be taken in front of the judge.

As for medical, I have it available at job now....attorney stated it is in my best interest to provide it or state can come after me down the road. Fine, I will...but there is no reason she can't pay half of extra expenses...after all child is "our daughter"! Court papers state she wants me to carry medical insurance. Does this include dental and vision (these I dont have at work). If I dont have dental and have to pay 100% of extra...braces will set me back multiple thousands that I can't afford.

Alot to respond to, sorry...just want to be 100% prepared. Thanks!
Its not mom who wants you to cover 100% of the out of pocket expenses. Its the state. Mom probably still qualifies for medicaid which means that medicaid could be used as secondary insurance to cover whatever your insurance doesn't cover. The state doesn't want that. The state wants off the hook for your child's medical expenses.

If you get custody of your child, and your child needs braces what are you going to do? Almost all orthodontists have payment plans so that you can pay over time. If you get custody of your child and your child needs glasses what are you going to do?

Check into the cost of private dental and vision insurance for your child. It might not be as bad as you think. Its at least worth researching.

In any case however, again, these issues are things that you are going to have to take in front of the judge.

CSE will settle with you if you if you come up with a logical calculation to show how much your child support should be, sticking strictly to the guidelines. They will settle with you if you agree to provide medical insurance for the child. The issue of the percentage of out of pocket medical expenses is something that they might negotiate on, but I think its unlikely due to the medicaid issue. All of the rest would have to go in front of the judge.

The issue of transportation is a visitation issue, not a child support issue, and you would have to make a separate motion for that, and likely have to have a separate hearing.

Here is a link to a child support calculator for IL...its not an offical one (I couldn't find one) but if you properly imput the numbers and print out the results, it could be helpful to you in a settlement attempt.

http://www.alllaw.com/calculators/Childsupport/illinois/

If you use this then remember to add back what you pay in health insurance to your net, (unless you are not paying for health insurance now) because you will be accounting for that separately.
 
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Based on your further questions below, I don't think that the state would "settle" with you.



Its a hard 20% after Union Dues and TRUE taxes. What you are having withheld from your pay is not necessarily your true taxes. Since we are half way through the year, take your current income and withholding and multiple by 2 to project what you will gross and withhold for the year. Then rough out a tax return for those figures to find out what your true tax is. Deduct the tax (and your social security and medicare taxes) from your gross to determine your net. Figure out 20% of that and then divide it by the number of pay periods you have a year. (generally 52, or 26)

Yes, I read that it is true taxes. So, this should be my net pay plus what comes out currently for child support, correct? I currently do not carry medical insurance on my other child, her mother does and the only other deduction from my check is state, federal, SSI, and BMO (mandated union tax). Also, I will subtract the montly Union Dues that I pay, it is not deducted. Rough out a tax return? I'm confused here...wouldn't I just take my net pay for 6 months -union dues X 2 and divide by 52 for an average weekly pay...and then take 20% of that?

Or, if you typically get a refund, and its fairly consistant, then simply add that figure back to your net income...or if you consistant owe, deduct that figure from your net income.

If you want any other factors taken into consideration, you have to take it in front of the judge.



That's a matter that would have to be taken in front of the judge.



Its not mom who wants you to cover 100% of the out of pocket expenses. Its the state. Mom probably still qualifies for medicaid which means that medicaid could be used as secondary insurance to cover whatever your insurance doesn't cover. The state doesn't want that. The state wants off the hook for your child's medical expenses.

The insurance I have through the Union is very good. If she used medicaid for secondary insurance they would have to pay very little. There would be a $15 copay for Dr. visits, and I have a family deductible of somethng minor like $400.00.

If you get custody of your child, and your child needs braces what are you going to do? Almost all orthodontists have payment plans so that you can pay over time. If you get custody of your child and your child needs glasses what are you going to do?

If and when I have custody, I don't expect it to be any different. I will supply the insurance and expect her mother to pay half of all uncovered expenses. See, that is what ticks me off. Regardless, CP or NCP...I feel you are both parents and should be EQUALLY responsible! She gets 20% of my check, insurance, and on my free will (so I know she has decent things) I buy all of her school supplies, school clothes, shoes throughout the year when she needs them ...etc. The only thing she provides is a roof (which is here and there and free), electricity that she gets aide on, food (which comes from food stamps)and a terrible living enviroment. Why should myself and the government support her, her low-life husband and 2 other childrern? I'd love to have a boy (I have 2 girls), but at this time I know that decision is not financially responsible. So why does she continue to have more kids that she can't afford and come to me her EX for more $$? Having children is alot more that a few "pushes"! We all know the responsibility and cost.

Check into the cost of private dental and vision insurance for your child. It might not be as bad as you think. Its at least worth researching.

In any case however, again, these issues are things that you are going to have to take in front of the judge.

CSE will settle with you if you if you come up with a logical calculation to show how much your child support should be, sticking strictly to the guidelines. They will settle with you if you agree to provide medical insurance for the child. The issue of the percentage of out of pocket medical expenses is something that they might negotiate on, but I think its unlikely due to the medicaid issue. All of the rest would have to go in front of the judge.

I guess I will try to work it out with them, and if not I will go in front of a judge. It's not fair that I have to pay all and her none, AND like stated before she is not "medical insurance responsible". I'll end up paying hundreds of dollars a month that I CAN'T AFFORD:(. PS: I know that child support is a hard 20%, but as far as medical...what if I show my living expenses, and how I have nothing left after? Will a judge seriously "try to suck blood out of this turnip? Honestly...I'd like to still be able to get her clothes, shoes, and supplies. Afterall, mom made her play PE in her socks b/c she wouldnt buy her PE shoes. Imagine being the only 7 y/o in your PE class w/out gym shoes. 3 months into the school year my daughter told me about it "crying", so I went to Wal-Mart and bought her a $15 pair of PE shoes. I had no clue until then. See...without my extras, she will do without ALOT!

The issue of transportation is a visitation issue, not a child support issue, and you would have to make a separate motion for that, and likely have to have a separate hearing.

Geez, just what the only working parent needs, another day off of work.

Here is a link to a child support calculator for IL...its not an offical one (I couldn't find one) but if you properly imput the numbers and print out the results, it could be helpful to you in a settlement attempt.

http://www.alllaw.com/calculators/Childsupport/illinois/

If you use this then remember to add back what you pay in health insurance to your net, (unless you are not paying for health insurance now) because you will be accounting for that separately.
Thanks for the advice, I'm just tired of the BS with the EX! If she had a job and TRIED...it would be an entirely different story!
 
Update

Thanks for the advice, I'm just tired of the BS with the EX! If she had a job and TRIED...it would be an entirely different story!
Okay, I feel updates are very important...so I am doing so. Just got back from court, child support doubled...which I expected. Little more money for the X, I guess this will get her husband bailed out faster...UGH! Anyways...

On the Medical, the AG didnt even argue when I agreed to pay coverage and objected to only paying 50% of major. AG said if I provided the insurance, the medical card would pick up the co-pays, major medical etc.

Wow, just another winning for the deadbeat CP! She gets twice the support, still doesnt have to work and the state even pays the $5 co-pays!

Thats okay, she can sit at home and eat her state paid bon-bons. I have my retainer for custody 50% paid...her time is coming!
 

CJane

Senior Member
Wow, just another winning for the deadbeat CP! She gets twice the support, still doesnt have to work and the state even pays the $5 co-pays!

Thats okay, she can sit at home and eat her state paid bon-bons. I have my retainer for custody 50% paid...her time is coming!
Ok, I know you're upset and bitter because of the VERY recent decision, but I think there are some things you're not understanding.

Her employment status (or lack thereof) is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Don't even bring it up in court. It doesn't matter. At. All. ESPECIALLY in IL when the NCP's income is the ONLY factor in determining CS. Her lack of employment is EVEN MORE irrelevant when it comes to custody changes.

Also, I don't see how a mother of 3 can be living off of your child support and 'the state'. She can't be getting THAT much in food stamps, is probably on WIC for the younger children... but she's not getting cash assistance if you're paying support. I'm even going to assume she's on section 8 housing assistance... but still - there's money coming in from somewhere... has to be.

I mean... I'm currently not employed. I receive about $800/month in CS and $1300/month in unemployment, no state aid at all, and it's tight. Real tight.

Though again, it's irrelevant what her income is or isn't. And if she's got kids under 5, the state isn't going to expect her to get a job to get off welfare either.

Lastly, your last sentence sounds like you're filing for a custody change to 'get back at' mom. And if that's even partially the case, the judge is going to see it and be very unlikely to find in your favor. Might want to tamp it down a bit.
 
Ok, I know you're upset and bitter because of the VERY recent decision, but I think there are some things you're not understanding.

Her employment status (or lack thereof) is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Don't even bring it up in court. It doesn't matter. At. All. ESPECIALLY in IL when the NCP's income is the ONLY factor in determining CS. Her lack of employment is EVEN MORE irrelevant when it comes to custody changes.

Also, I don't see how a mother of 3 can be living off of your child support and 'the state'. She can't be getting THAT much in food stamps, is probably on WIC for the younger children... but she's not getting cash assistance if you're paying support. I'm even going to assume she's on section 8 housing assistance... but still - there's money coming in from somewhere... has to be.

~Hmm, you obviously dont know my ex. Lucky you, lol. The trailer she lives in is free for now (her husband did odd jobs for lanlord, but now in jail), states pays food and medical, she gets grants for utility bills, and has no phone or cable. My support pays for her cigs, beer and gas in her car. Oh yeah...she doesnt have running water, and must not go to laundry may b/c my daughter always has socks and panties on that she has been wearing for days, maybe weeks!
I mean... I'm currently not employed. I receive about $800/month in CS and $1300/month in unemployment, no state aid at all, and it's tight. Real tight.
That would be tight for me to, but I'm normal...and would like to think that you are as well:). We care for our kids and pay our bills...
Though again, it's irrelevant what her income is or isn't. And if she's got kids under 5, the state isn't going to expect her to get a job to get off welfare either.

Lastly, your last sentence sounds like you're filing for a custody change to 'get back at' mom. And if that's even partially the case, the judge is going to see it and be very unlikely to find in your favor. Might want to tamp it down a bit.
I've been working on this custody for over a year, long before todays court issues were filed. If you have some extra time check out my threads...and then let me know if you would do the same. Last time I checked ... being choked with an extension cord and having a microwave thrown at your head was illegal. How about throwing a tire iron throught the windshield of a car containg children? Not to mention DUI's, cannibas, meth, other domestic abuse, no running water, etc. School, Police and DCFS has even been involved. Oh yeah, many cases of visitation interference as well... It's not to get back at anyone...it's for the SAFETY of my child!
 
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CJane

Senior Member
I've been working on this custody for over a year, long before todays court issues were filed. If you have some extra time check out my threads...and then let me know if you would do the same. Last time I checked ... being choked with an extension cord and having a microwave thrown at your head was illegal. How about throwing a tire iron throught the windshield of a car containg children? Not to mention DUI's, cannibas, meth, other domestic abuse, no running water, etc. School, Police and DCFS has even been involved. Oh yeah, many cases of visitation interference as well... It's not to get back at anyone...it's for the SAFETY of my child!
Dude, I know. That's why what I said wasn't an accusation - just a reminder. It SOUNDS like that's why you're doing it - THAT is what you need to get a grip on - the PERCEPTION.

I've read your other threads. I would probably be in jail right now if I were in your shoes. But you've GOT to make sure you only put out 'FOR THE KID' type energy and vent the anger at the ex elsewhere.
 

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