Child never has a day off....13 yrs old

[mdonovin]

What is the name of your state? NJ

2 soccer teams (3 practice days at school 3 practices for the community soccer club )
1 swimming team (3-4 nites a week every weekend for 11 months of the year)
boy scouts
band and other extra curricular activites, homework, etc

all at the same time without my "mutual consent" or agreeing to let him do so much

when i did talk to my son today is tired, ornery and uninterested in conversation
with me
our relationship has always been great!
i think that pisses her off too!

when is too much for 13 yr old....? and do i have any recourse?
dont parents with kids put limits on activities?
if only to save gas....LOL
or to insure nuclear family time?
am I naive?


IMHO
i am sure she does not get my consent because i would object to so much activity but she needs to keep him busy which keeps her busy and she doesnt have to deal with her personal issues or pain she may be feeling

and of course by the time I find these activites are signed up for its too late and I feel bad being the 'bad guy" if I dont let him do all the activities

her common argument is that its his best interest to do these things...essentially telling me Dad/son time does not count....

BTW- she works p/t for last 12 yrs and does not pay for housing
child support is current
i paid alimony in the begininng

anyone have any insights feedback comments or suggestions?What is the name of your state?

 

[CJane]

What is the name of your state? NJ

2 soccer teams (3 practice days at school 3 practices for the community soccer club )
1 swimming team (3-4 nites a week every weekend for 11 months of the year)
boy scouts
band and other extra curricular activites, homework, etc

all at the same time without my "mutual consent" or agreeing to let him do so much

Asking the question 100 different ways doesn't change the answer.

Mom doesn't NEED your consent for things like band or homework or any other activity that doesn't take place on your time. She DOES need your consent for things that WILL interfere with your time, but YOU have CHOSEN to be 'ok' with the activities and in fact COACH one of those teams that you feel is too much. You don't get to make mom out to be the bitch on this.

when i did talk to my son today is tired, ornery and uninterested in conversation
with me

He's a teenager.

our relationship has always been great!

Good.

i think that pisses her off too!

I doubt it.

when is too much for 13 yr old....? and do i have any recourse?

Depends on the 13 year old. Your recourse is to choose not to take the child to his activities on your time.

dont parents with kids put limits on activities?

Yes.

or to insure nuclear family time?

How do you know there isn't family time? I have 'family time' with my kids while we're driving from the baby sitter's to 4-H or when one is taking a bubble bath while I braid the other one's hair.

am I naive?

I would have said irritating and over-controlling.

IMHO
i am sure she does not get my consent because i would object to so much activity but she needs to keep him busy which keeps her busy and she doesnt have to deal with her personal issues or pain she may be feeling

THat's a lovely psych eval, but irrelevant. You DON'T object... you've said that yourself.

and of course by the time I find these activites are signed up for its too late and I feel bad being the 'bad guy" if I dont let him do all the activities

Sounds like personal issues and pain YOU need to deal with.

her common argument is that its his best interest to do these things...essentially telling me Dad/son time does not count....

Are you looking for EXTRA time? Why do you keep saying that she says Dad/son time doesn't count? Is this the coaches are important thing again?

BTW- she works p/t for last 12 yrs and does not pay for housing
child support is current
i paid alimony in the begininng

So?
So?
So?


Do you have a LEGAL QUESTION?

 

[mdonovin]

thanks
Cjane

but i am curious about the over controlling statement
since i feel have no input on anything and never get consulted
how can i be controlling?
i hope you are not judging me for expressing my feelings on this forum
and if i cant share here where do i share?...i am sorry if irritate anyone here

and i do object
and I have asked repeatedly for the ex to talk to me before signing him up
but I always take him despite my protestations (i share that protest with the with the ex wife only)
i love that he competes and that he is a well rounded good kid..

and yes all this is about legal--i am gong to court in 3 weeks

I am frustrated I am not consulted advised or given any trades of date BEFORE she plans things that impact our time. even when i ask after the fact, to come up with alternate dates she never responds.
i have tried on line calendars and blogs to plan activites--she does not cooperate and has never offered any common calendar or solution for his planning and sharing his activites

but overall i get your attitude on this and will take it under consideration


a counselor once told me...some people are just not nice....

as for being OK with it...no i am not thats why i am here

If i was consulted in August about the 3 sports I would have recommended he drop the club soccer team...the team I have coached in the past..not the school team-i would like him to experience another sports model if you will...he has been with me in soccer off and on for 7 years...and this is the first year for his school team...and next year is HS and the "team" at the HS is why we played club level for 7 years --to get him ready for "school teams"...the school teams are important to kids.

i think that pisses her off too!
I doubt it.​

I have NO DOUBT she takes much pleasure in keeping me from my son

Are you looking for EXTRA time? Why do you keep saying that she says Dad/son time doesn't count? Is this the coaches are important thing again?

i am looking for the time we deserve--
for example
she refused to get my son ready for our summer vacation and would not support my legal right to take my son on vacation and she stated "I wont force him to anything...he can go but I wont force him"
she has expressed that Dad as coach is not quality time


Your recourse is to choose not to take the child to his activities on your time.
so i shouldn't worry about her telling him I am a "bad Dad" he is making you do something you dont wont to do....you dont have to if you dont want to"
i shouldn't worry about angering my son?
the next time he will protest again and she will "not force" him top go with me
and mostly CJ- she will just get angrier...and cause more pain in this dysfunctional relationship we have

CJ-she is bitter and angry and has been for a long time....
the entire 8 yrs of marriage (sic) in fact was hell

the point of the facts at the bottom is so you have some basic facts...some people on this forum have asked for more facts

here are some add'l comments
1- our vaction time SHE told him he didnt have to go (documented with police report)

2- the dozens of emails/phone messages that were never received and the "oops I forgot" incidents that caused us to not get together on our scheduled weekends

3- the continued neglect of follow through to custodial responsibilities (IMHO)

4 failure to communicate in a timely fashion or to acknowledge my written requests for mutual consent let alone comply with the agreement.set forth by FC (documented 5 times)

5- poison words given to Jeff in an attempt to alienate him from me.

6-- continuance to put (my son) and I in a bad position for our relationship.
(tempting him AFTER vacation plans were confirmed for example)

7-- lthe premeditated attitude-- she told me she was looking forward to screwing us out of vacation time.....( documented and recorded phone conversation)

8- she "messed" with my soccer coaching (documented) (3 incidents)
( i have spoken to the Soccer Club ""board of directors:- it is of their opinion that "she is out to get you") she planted a rumor i was a criminal (i am not )

9- telling my son that Dad's time with him while coaching him is not quality time (documented and my son said it to me as well)

10. or the incident in June 2004 when she refused to change Jeff's plans (made without my consent) on Father's day weekend-(he went to a sleepover-she refused to support our weekend together)


THanKS AGAIN bj

 

[CourtClerk]

i shouldn't worry about angering my son?

Let it be known that I anger my son on a regular basis... and I don't give a damn.

 

[Teresa K.]

BJ-

It stinks obviously that you are caught up in this tangled mess with your son and his mother. Does your attorney know all the things that you have mentioned here? There is such a thing as Parental Alienation Syndrome and it can be done by mothers as well as fathers to their children. No- I am not saying for YOU TO DO IT....I am simply saying that there is a name for it, and IF AND ONLY IF you have the acceptable supplemental documentation, that it COULD hold up in court. To determine PAS is VERY expensive as everyone involved needs to join counseling and...realistically, since your son is what...13? He is going to be able to tell the Judge/ Counselor what he wants to say, or what his mother has taught him to say.

Legal recourse, is what you are doing now. Start a journal. Write everything down. Save Everything. A judge will take into consideration that you tried, and will consider that she is objective, forgetful, whatever he reasoning might be. Your attorney should be telling you to do all these things, if not, maybe you should search for another one who does, but it will cost you.

If his mother is a beast of a woman, have faith that your son will see her true colors. Be there for him in anyway that you can. Those who are of lesser character, always reveal themselves......Focus on him, dialog with him (as much as you can, I mean, he is 13 after all, his priorities are changing) and he will see that you cared, that you tried and that you were with him as much as you could be.

Oh, and get a prepaid cell phone for him to carry so that you can talk with him directly and not go through her as much. Check with your attorney b/c you should have "reasonable liberal phone rights" and she shouldn't prevent you from speaking with him on a regular basis on a phone you provide for him. But the law in your state may speak directly to that. Check it out. There's also Email, MySpace, FaceBook, these are all methods of connecting with your son that have nothing to do with her.

T-

Been There, Done This, and it worked...I speak from experience.

 

[Ohiogal]

Actually PAS has been discredited but there is such a thing as parental alienation.

 

[stealth2]

OP - you really don't get to blame Mom for missing parenting time unless you are consistently making the effort to enforce it AND your order provides for specific times when the boy is with you.

And yes, sometimes being a parent means being the bad guy and making your kid(s) pissed off at you.

As for overscheduling.... I subscribe to the belief that a busy teen is a teen who is not out getting into trouble. Both of mine are busy pretty much every day. On top of homework in advanced/honors classes across the board, my oldest (15) takes guitar lessons, plays in a band (in my garage, no less), participates in the school drama productions, is on Math League, Lit Mag, is a peer mediator and peer tutor, and works 1 day a weekend. My younger (13, same as your boy) plays field hockey, runs track, is first horn in 3 school bands, in 2 Honor Societies (and yes, both are active in community and school service), does community theater, and is in 3 clubs at school. In addition, they are responsible for helping keep the house running smoothly, and two nights a week are required to at least prep dinner (although they will often just cook it so we can eat when I get home).

I work FT, so my time "off" is spent running them around. (I'm also the designated parental chaperone to take the kids & their friends to various concerts.) Do I do it to "escape" issues? LOL Not at all. I do it because these are activities the kids enjoy, they keep them productively engaged, and they enrich their lives. Given that Dad lives 400 miles away, I don't get his approval for the activities that don't involve his time.

Are my kids tired? Sometimes. Are they cranky? Uuuh, yup. Ornery & obstinate? Sure, sometimes. They're also teens. Not sure what my excuse is, but I digress...

You really have NO say in what she has the boy do on her time. And if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and enforce your time with your son, then you don't have much right to bitch about it.

 

[CourtClerk]

And yes, sometimes being a parent means being the bad guy and making your kid(s) pissed off at you.

As for overscheduling.... I subscribe to the belief that a busy teen is a teen who is not out getting into trouble. Both of mine are busy pretty much every day. On top of homework in advanced/honors classes across the board, my oldest (15) takes guitar lessons, plays in a band (in my garage, no less), participates in the school drama productions, is on Math League, Lit Mag, is a peer mediator and peer tutor, and works 1 day a weekend. My younger (13, same as your boy) plays field hockey, runs track, is first horn in 3 school bands, in 2 Honor Societies (and yes, both are active in community and school service), does community theater, and is in 3 clubs at school. In addition, they are responsible for helping keep the house running smoothly, and two nights a week are required to at least prep dinner (although they will often just cook it so we can eat when I get home).

I work FT, so my time "off" is spent running them around. (I'm also the designated parental chaperone to take the kids & their friends to various concerts.) Do I do it to "escape" issues? LOL Not at all. I do it because these are activities the kids enjoy, they keep them productively engaged, and they enrich their lives. Given that Dad lives 400 miles away, I don't get his approval for the activities that don't involve his time.

Are my kids tired? Sometimes. Are they cranky? Uuuh, yup. Ornery & obstinate? Sure, sometimes. They're also teens. Not sure what my excuse is, but I digress...

You really have NO say in what she has the boy do on her time. And if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and enforce your time with your son, then you don't have much right to bitch about it.

This sounds like the life of any responsible, average parent. What's the old saying? An idle mind is the devil's workshop???

My 11 year old plays 4 sports (football, basketball, baseball, swim team), he's a peer tutor and I also work full time. My days usually start now (just before 5am), they usually don't end until I pick him up from football practice tonight (8pm). I run around after him on my off time and off days... he's engaged in SOME activity 6 days a week and on the 7th day, he's doing chores. Cranky, obstinate, ornery and just plain tired??? Absolutely. An honor student with an 89 average and an incredible amount of responsibility? Absolutely.

 

[mdonovin]

Excellent feedback everyone and points taken...THANK YOU


Hey court clerk---does your child get over it quickly?
or does he harbor long term grudges?

seems like he is a teenager-I will deal with it....and I am taking action legally

i do have documentation

as for PAS___ its clear it has not been embraced by the courts but most every one
here I am sure understands the symptoms and that it exists by some other moniker

I guess it can be called INTERFERENCE for the sake of the courts which will recognize parental interference...i think

i would love to find a GREAT attorney willing to take PAS to the highest level and make it become precedent
Anyone know of a Pro Bono lawyer with a big heart?
or is that an Oxymoron??? LMAO

 

[CourtClerk]

Excellent feedback everyone and points taken...THANK YOU


Hey court clerk---does your child get over it quickly?
or does he harbor long term grudges?

I don't feed into the attitudes of prepubescent adolescents, so he has no choice but to get over it, but I won't care one way or another if he does or doesn't. I'm the parent and it goes the way I say it goes... or it doesn't go at all. Like I told my son a long time ago, It's my world. I run it, you run around in it.

Honestly, you need to go get your child, have your parenting time and to heck with what he and his mother are going through or you are forever going to be a pushover. He'll figure out real quick he can either sit there the whole weekend and be miserable, or he can figure out a way to enjoy himself, but one way or another, he's going with you. You keep that up long enough and he'll figure out a way to enjoy himself. Kid's aren't as stupid as we would like them to believe. Him and mom are running the show and you are letting them, then sitting back and whining about it. Just how productive is that exactly?

 

[LdiJ]

I agree with what everyone else had to say...with one proviso....

I do think that your child is a bit over-extended, and that it would be valid, as part of your court case, to restrict the number of activities he is involved in at any one given time.

Someone can play 4 sports a year, but those sports might not overlap, or might only overlap a little.

From your explanation, it sounds like your child is doing three sports simultaneously. If that is the case, then its likely too much. I would think that it would even be difficult to do proper justice to more than one at a time.

 

[Silverplum]

There is such a thing as Parental Alienation Syndrome and it can be done by mothers as well as fathers to their children. No- I am not saying for YOU TO DO IT....I am simply saying that there is a name for it, and IF AND ONLY IF you have the acceptable supplemental documentation, that it COULD hold up in court. To determine PAS is VERY expensive

TeresaK: you have made it infinitely clear that you do NOT know what you are "advising" here. Please STOP unless you are prepared to supply a creditable link to your absurd claims.

Here's a hint as to what's wrong with your post in this thread: PAS does not exist in the DSM. Now come back and explain that to me/us. Another hint: I have already explained it on this board... you could probably cheat and just copy/paste my explanatory post. But at least I'd know you'd read something about family law.

 

[tuffbrk]

I'm with LdiJ on this one - 2 soccer teams and a swim schedule all within one season - when is there time for interacting with family members(who aren't all in the car on the way to the practice - they're at their practice!), homework, studying, innovation, day dreaming, looking at the clouds...Never mind, the risk of injury due to continuing to practice/ participate in multiple games with a tired body...Sounds to me like Mom needs to get a life of her own instead of giving this teen the very wrong impression that the world revolves around him and his activities, that everything else is "dropped" in order to accommodate his schedule. Not smart! He needs to learn sensitivity to family members and their feelings, and schedule as well as understand "life" is about more than just himself and a sports schedule. And, Dad? You don't need to bad mouth Mom to do that. This is on you to teach him too... If all of these chats are with your Ex - for all you know your son is maintaining this schedule thinking it's what you want. It's okay to make your son aware of what you need and that you can be hurt. Good luck in court

 

[Teresa K.]

TeresaK: you have made it infinitely clear that you do NOT know what you are "advising" here. Please STOP unless you are prepared to supply a creditable link to your absurd claims.

Here's a hint as to what's wrong with your post in this thread: PAS does not exist in the DSM. Now come back and explain that to me/us. Another hint: I have already explained it on this board... you could probably cheat and just copy/paste my explanatory post. But at least I'd know you'd read something about family law.

I respectfully disagree. Parental Alienation is something that thousands, if not millions of children experience in divorce situations. True, it may not be in the DSM, but most child therapists have a "similar moniker" that they use to address this problem. Furthermore, I "advised" that his legal recourse is what he is doing now....working with an attorney, keeping documentation and looking into counseling for all to address these issues.

With regard to the creditable link....simply google search parental alienation or parental alienation syndrome. In nearly every instance that I researched, it was also known as "Child Abuse" and that, I can assure you IS in the DSM. Furthermore, it was recommended on those pages to refer to a child therapist who specializes in Child Divorce. They will be able to make the connection, IF one exists, and present it in Court, if need be. As a mother, whose children are subject to a Father who is trying his damndest to alienate our 5 year old son, I have him in therapy and can assure you, the therapist sees it and calls it by Parental Alienation. Whether you add Syndrome or not is moot at this point, by my book. That is the best creditable link that I need supply at this point. MDonovin can certainly do the research in his jurisdiction to see what the Courts will allow.

 

[CJane]

I respectfully disagree. Parental Alienation is something that thousands, if not millions of children experience in divorce situations.

The issue is that PAS - as a syndrome - has been largely determined to not exist legally. No one is disputing that a parent can intentionally manipulate situations in order to alienate the other parent... what we ARE disputing is that this alienation is a syndrome that the court will recognize. Even mentioning PAS in court will oftentimes cause the judge to question your credibility.