How accurate must a ticket be?

[gbellny]

What is the name of your state? ny,nyc

My 74 year old father recieved a $100 sanatation violation for "Fail to clean 18" into street" at 8:16am. Besides being a old 74, not being awake before 9:00am, and being on a tight fixed income.

The law states that a ticket can be issued for this offence between "8:00am-9:00am and 6:00pm-7:00pm"

Note:ticket computer generated.

The violation details states the following ... "At t/p/o i did observe leave(s),paper bag(s),piece(s) of paper, tissue(s) scattered within the 18 inch curb line, during the established routing hour of 8am-8:59am

The errors I see are abbrviating T/P/O, not in any dictionary I have (weak I know). The other is the officer is stating part of the administration rule inncorrectly, 8am-8:59am instead of 8:00am-9:00am. (not accurate)

The last item I see is that in the Signature of Complainant area a L L in script is in place not a signature per say. If I could show that is not his correct Signature, I could argue that he didn't SIGN the ticket.

 

[You Are Guilty]

I have good news, and I have bad news. The good news is that ECB tickets are like NYC parking tickets, they do need to have certain information correct in order to be valid, since they are the only evidence against you.

The bad news is none of the things you mentioned are even remotely close to being required, or even incorrect. T/P/O is police shorthand for "time and place of occurrence". The times the ticket window are in effect technically don't even need to be ON the ticket, much less be correct. The signature location is similarly irrelevant (I believe there is a requirement that the name and/or badge number be printed down there at the bottom somewhere though).

Unfortunately, I don't know how likely one is to be offered a plea deal if one contests the ticket - I don't know anyone who's done it. There really isn't anything to lose by trying, except for a few minutes. You may luck out and get a sympathetic ALJ who will dismiss, or at least reduce, the fine amount.

You can get more information here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ecb/html/understand/understand.shtml
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ecb/html/respond/respond.shtml

Good luck.

 

[gbellny]

figured that much

Thanks for the reply,figured that much. Quick question, What happens when you are away on vaction? Do you need to put the city on notice that you aren't home???? I guess it just makes it easier for the city to screw you. Thanks again

F.Y.I. The few leaves that were at the curb are due to it's fall and leaves fall from trees at all hours. Plastic bag,paper and tissues never seen most likey continued to blow down the street.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Thanks for the reply,figured that much. Quick question, What happens when you are away on vaction? Do you need to put the city on notice that you aren't home???? I guess it just makes it easier for the city to screw you. Thanks again

You are "supposed" to make whatever arrangements you need to ensure the sidewalk stays clean. In reality, well, you can guess how well that works.

F.Y.I. The few leaves that were at the curb are due to it's fall and leaves fall from trees at all hours. Plastic bag,paper and tissues never seen most likey continued to blow down the street.

There were some pertinent things in the newspaper the last few weeks. Read these, especially the alleged "criteria" for issuing the violation:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/10/22/2007-10-22_voice_of_the_people.html?print=1 ("cleaning up", last one at the bottom)
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/10/10/2007-10-10_when_litterbugs_attack_nyc_makes_homeown.html?print=1
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/10/25/2007-10-25_voice_of_the_people.html ("surprise surprise")
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/10/24/2007-10-24_voice_of_the_people-1.html ("trash talk")

Seems like plenty of other people share your gripe...

 

[SnowCajun]

Just a thought.

I would imagine at his age he's virtually disabled, that he can't get around like he did when he was young. Heck at 55 I can't now.. 74 scares me. I would fight it under the American's With Disabilities Act and ask for a Reasonable Accommodation time adjustment due to his age and health that for him the time be changed to a time when it's normally up and getting around. I'm never up at 9am either, I've never been one to be up early. Stand up for his rights and fight them on this, it's not a good way to treat and elderly gentleman.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Good luck,

SnowCajun
I'm old, there's no cure!