When an insurance company totals a car for economic reasons

[curious100]

My only point was that you are comparing apples to oranges. And, yes, I've worked for insurance companies, and have NEVER had an unhappy customer in a claims situation. I, do not, however, currently work for an insurance company.

Based on the age of your vehicle, you have an 89 degree angle, uphill battle to climb. If any of us thought you would prevail, you would have been told that.

OK. Thank you.

 

[ecmst12]

And how many ebay sales did you find that were for LESS then they are offering you? They do look at the average sales prices, not the highest or the lowest.

 

[curious100]

And how many ebay sales did you find that were for LESS then they are offering you? They do look at the average sales prices, not the highest or the lowest.

Ironically, none that were the same make and model.

Hypothetically, can you just assume for a moment that what I'm saying is correct and that the insurance company HAS made a low offer--that my truck IS worth more? If that's the case, what information do YOU think I can use to prove my case?

I'm assuming that the industry is using proprietary information, so what can the rest of us use to prove to them and/or a judge that the offer is low? I've stated information that I have that I believed was good. Do you have any other ideas?

Thank you.

 

[moburkes]

All you can do is present your information. For your 3 examples, they will have 30.

 

[curious100]

It doesn't matter if the other guy has insurance or not (for the sake of how the numbers work). If you sue him for $5000 in damages to your vehicle, and he can prove that the average price in your area for a similar vehicle is $3500, you will get $3500 and he will get your car. Then if you want to buy it back, he might sell it to you to recoup some of what he just paid you!

Well, I just called our small claims court and had no idea our county provides a free legal advisor. I wish I'd known earlier. So, I just spoke with an attorney about all of this.

I was told that if I sue the driver directly and win, I will receive a judgment against that driver for the lesser of two figures--the cost to repair vs. the actual cost value.

The other driver will not receive our truck, and we will not have to buy it back. And, since the judgment is against the driver and not the insurance company, all the insurance company can do is pay or not pay the judgment, but they cannot appeal, as they will not be a party to the suit. So, the driver will be responsible for paying us. Of course, the other driver can appeal.

The lawyer I spoke with strongly advised us to try to negotiate with the insurance company first, though, which we absolutely will. However, he said these types of suits are actually pretty common.

 

[moburkes]

Okay. Is there anything else that we can help you with at this point?

 

[JustAPal00]

Well, I just called our small claims court and had no idea our county provides a free legal advisor. I wish I'd known earlier. So, I just spoke with an attorney about all of this.

I was told that if I sue the driver directly and win, I will receive a judgment against that driver for the lesser of two figures--the cost to repair vs. the actual cost value.

The other driver will not receive our truck, and we will not have to buy it back. And, since the judgment is against the driver and not the insurance company, all the insurance company can do is pay or not pay the judgment, but they cannot appeal, as they will not be a party to the suit. So, the driver will be responsible for paying us. Of course, the other driver can appeal.

The lawyer I spoke with strongly advised us to try to negotiate with the insurance company first, though, which we absolutely will. However, he said these types of suits are actually pretty common.

I think the person you spoke to at the court is mistaken. If the other driver is forced to pay the full value of your car, he should be entitled to the car just like he was buying it.

 

[curious100]

Update

Well, this has been a real learning experience, but I'm happy to report that we FINALLY arrived at an acceptable figure with the insurance company. We received the check last week.

We rejected their initial settlement offer because it was a total lowball offer. When they first submitted the offer to us, all it contained was a net figure to us determined by what they said was fair market value of our truck, less salvage. We requested details of how they arrived at these figures.

It took them nine days to submit that report to us. Wouldn't you know, they have 10 comps--all of them from Washington (we live in Southern California)--not one local comp. And to top it off, all of these comps were for ads with ASKING PRICE,--not one final sale. Of course, they were extremely low.

Since we had been waiting for many days to receive their report, we were able to go online and find five local comps, all in Southern California, and all more than $1,000 higher than theirs--$200 higher than we believed the value to be.

So, we rejected their offer and submitted our counter offer, using our local comps, telling them we refuse to use out-of-state comps and that we have every right to use local comps. We also pointed out that their report neglected to show power steering, air conditioning, and AM/FM Stereo Cassette included in the valuation of our truck.

I have come to realize that our adjuster was very inexperieced and hard-nosed about every single thing, so we eventually worked solely with his supervisor. When we pointed out his ommissions of the above options/equipment, the adjuster said we would need another appraisal. I merely faxed over the original window sticker with our VIN # showing what our truck did have. (Yes, I'm one of those anal people who keeps everything.) The supervisor immediately accepted it as proof. That's when I knew to deal with the supervisor from that point on.

Next thing we know, we get an email from the adjuster telling us they do not entertain counter offers, but it appears that our vehicle was evaluated improperly. Please allow them a couple of days to submit another settlement offer. We call the supervisor telling him we expect to use local comps--we were able to find local comps, and we don't want them cherry-picking as they had been. He agreed.

I told him we wanted them to get local dealer quotes. He agreed. I told him the salvage figure was way too high. He agreed. I told him we wanted to be reimbursed the cost of the inspection and the re-registering as a salvaged vehicle with the DMV. He agreed. I also told him that if we did not receive what we considered to be a fair offer that we would sue the other driver in small claims court, show their ridiculous comps and lowball offer to the judge, and let the judge decide. He asked for time to prepare an updated settlement offer.

Keep in mind that we asked all of above of the adjuster and he refused every single thing. He said it's not our policy to pay for this, not our policy to pay for that. I finally told him that we were not concerned with what their policy was--his client caused this accident, and we were going to pay for certain things out of our pocket to re-register the truck, so we expected to be reimbursed for these fees. Adjuster wouldn't budge, but supervisor agreed.

So, in the end, we received $903 more for our vehicle than originally proposed, plus the salvage was reduced to $112, for a net settlement to us of $1249 more than originally proposed. Plus, we were also reimbursed the inspection and re-registration fees.

I'm glad it's over, but I learned a lot, and will be in a much better position from the onset if we must ever, God forbid, go through this again.

 

[curious100]

ADS do not prove value. SALES prove value. Just because someone is asking a certain price for their vehicle doesn't mean it sells for that much. The reports that insurance companies use track actual sales in your area, not advertisements.

That is 100% wrong. The report they submitted to us used out-of-state comps which were ads with asking prices. The report stated as much, plus it said they have no idea what the final sales prices were.

 

[curious100]

Sure, insurance companies want to keep payouts low, HOWEVER, they are not in the business of lowballing. They wouldn't keep many customers if they offered their customers consistently low payouts.

Insurance companies don't use KBB or Edmunds or ebay.

Of course they lowball. Otherwise, how on earth would the salvage figure go from $458 to $112?

And, yes, insurance companies do use ebay. They use all kinds of online ads for their comps. I just received 10 of them.

 

[ecmst12]

Wow, I don't know what company you were dealing with, but NONE of that would have happened at the one I work for. We don't use ads at all, the report we run uses sale records. All options are accounted for at the time the report is run, and the sales records are local to the owner. And we would not pay for re-registration fees, if you want to keep the totalled vehicle, that's your business. Of course, we don't take salvage deductions for vehicles more then 10 years old, either.

 

[JustAPal00]

That is 100% wrong. The report they submitted to us used out-of-state comps which were ads with asking prices. The report stated as much, plus it said they have no idea what the final sales prices were.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If they were using asking prices instead of final sale prices, then the asking prices would higher than the final sale price. Only an idiot offers more then the asking price! If you wanted to manipulate the asking price figures, just place a bunch of bogus ads with high or low prices depending on what your goal is. That's what those speaker salesmen do! I've read this whole thread, and you seemed to have a hard time understanding how the whole thing worked. I don't think you understand what the insurance company was telling you.

 

[curious100]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If they were using asking prices instead of final sale prices, then the asking prices would higher than the final sale price. Only an idiot offers more then the asking price! If you wanted to manipulate the asking price figures, just place a bunch of bogus ads with high or low prices depending on what your goal is. That's what those speaker salesmen do! I've read this whole thread, and you seemed to have a hard time understanding how the whole thing worked. I don't think you understand what the insurance company was telling you.

Well, it may be dumb, and it may be the dumbest thing you've ever heard, but that's exactly what happened. If you want to provide an address, I'll mail their report to you so you can see for yourself every single ad they used.

I understand completely what the insurance company was doing. They lowballed us using a price they derived from ads because, as they (or the company they used to prepare the report--AUDATEX) said, there were no local comps available, and they had to expand their search. The report said they could find no sales and, therefore, used classified ads found online (ebay, Craig's list, auto trader, etc.) to arrive at their figure. And, as I said, they were all out of state. The ads they cited were all placed in July and August--our accident occured in September, so we were not trying to manipulate a price. (Geesh!)

What's so hard to understand? Someone crashed our truck, we rejected the lowball offer made by God--um, I mean the insurance company who thinks they're God--we countered, even though they said they don't entertain counter offers, and we received a fair offer based on facts.

If you read the entire thread, you will see that from the very beginning, I was saying they were offering about $800 too low for the fair market value of our truck. We ended up getting $903 more. Also, we squawked about the $458 in salvage. It was reduced to $112. If I had listened to your advice, I would have lost lots of money.

By the way, we were never required to deal with the insurance company--our issue was with the man who hit us. He is the one who has a contract with them--not us. They are there for him when he causes an accident and must pay damages. In order to avoid a judgment in court, they attempt to negotiate a settlement first, but I didn't give a rat's behind about what their policies were as far as paying this or that. So, we negotiated with them, BUT WE WERE NOT REQUIRED TO. Obviously, the original adjuster was blowing lots of smoke about what they wouldn't pay, since the supervisor OK'd paying them.

So, I think you need to read everything again, Just A Pal, because I think it is you who isn't understanding things. I have a check in my account that shows I understand everything just fine.

 

[beckettcmc]

What is the other drivers insurance co.?

I am just curious many companies have a certain MO they use so this might be helpful for us to know to give you better advice.

 

[JustAPal00]

Well, it may be dumb, and it may be the dumbest thing you've ever heard, but that's exactly what happened. If you want to provide an address, I'll mail their report to you so you can see for yourself every single ad they used.

I understand completely what the insurance company was doing. They lowballed us using a price they derived from ads because, as they (or the company they used to prepare the report--AUDATEX) said, there were no local comps available, and they had to expand their search. The report said they could find no sales and, therefore, used classified ads found online (ebay, Craig's list, auto trader, etc.) to arrive at their figure. And, as I said, they were all out of state. The ads they cited were all placed in July and August--our accident occured in September, so we were not trying to manipulate a price. (Geesh!)

What's so hard to understand? Someone crashed our truck, we rejected the lowball offer made by God--um, I mean the insurance company who thinks they're God--we countered, even though they said they don't entertain counter offers, and we received a fair offer based on facts.

If you read the entire thread, you will see that from the very beginning, I was saying they were offering about $800 too low for the fair market value of our truck. We ended up getting $903 more. Also, we squawked about the $458 in salvage. It was reduced to $112. If I had listened to your advice, I would have lost lots of money.

By the way, we were never required to deal with the insurance company--our issue was with the man who hit us. He is the one who has a contract with them--not us. They are there for him when he causes an accident and must pay damages. In order to avoid a judgment in court, they attempt to negotiate a settlement first, but I didn't give a rat's behind about what their policies were as far as paying this or that. So, we negotiated with them, BUT WE WERE NOT REQUIRED TO. Obviously, the original adjuster was blowing lots of smoke about what they wouldn't pay, since the supervisor OK'd paying them.

So, I think you need to read everything again, Just A Pal, because I think it is you who isn't understanding things. I have a check in my account that shows I understand everything just fine.

No, I think it is you who has no Idea! I never told you to settle, I told you that if you wanted to keep your car you would have to pay the salvage value. I never said what it should be, just that if your car was totaled and you received the fair market value for it, then it was no longer yours. You were the one who just couldn't grasp that notion!!! You posted on here that the insurance company totaled your car for economic reasons, and wanted to deduct some of your money because you wanted to keep your car! What don't you understand??? ONE MORE TIME REAL SLOWLY ! ! When an insurance company totals your car, they buy it from you for the fair market value! You do have the first right to buy it back for the salvage value. No one on this site ever told you how much your car was worth, or what the salvage value should be! You just couldn't grasp the fact that when a car is totaled you had to give some of the money back to keep your car!!!