International travel with child following divorce

[TKO24]

What is the name of your state? Alabama.

Apologies if this is not the right forum, i was unsure. My query does involve a child following divorce so I thought this to be the most suitable place. Also, I am a legal stranger and if I refer to "we" when I shouldn't, it's not intentional and from reading the forum I understand my status (none!) in regards to all matters concerning the child in question both currently and following my marriage to my fiance.

My fiance and her ex husband have a son together. My fiance is the CP, her husband the NCP. Visitation rights for the NCP are stated in the court order as the 1st and 3rd full weekends in a month and various holidays, birthdays etc.

NCP is the biological and legal father.

Both CP and child would have return tickets to the US at the time of leaving the US.

Vacation dates would not coincide with NCP's court determined visitation dates.

There are no stipulations about telephone/webcam contact between the NCP and child.

My question is:

Are there any state or federal laws that state the NCP must give permission for the child to be allowed to travel outside of the USA on vacation?

Thanks.

 

[CourtClerk]

How old is the child and does he/she already have a passport?

What does the CO say about taking the child out of the county/state/country?

 

[TKO24]

To add:

Court order also states that "each parent shall keep the other informed on a current basis to the primary residence address and telephone number where [child] resides or visits."

I can't envisage where this would be a problem and CP would abide by this and give international contact numbers.

 

[CourtClerk]

Now please answer the other questions...

 

[TKO24]

How old is the child and does he/she already have a passport?

What does the CO say about taking the child out of the county/state/country?

Child is 6 years old and does not currently have a passport.

Have read and re-read the court order, and other than that written in my second post regarding telephone numbers during visits, there is no stipulation about childs movements, except in regards to permanent relocation.

 

[CourtClerk]

In order for the 6 year old to obtain a passport, both parents will have to show up and sign the application. If dad signs the application, one would guess he wouldn't have an opposition to the child leaving the country.

Has mom spoken to dad about dad taking the trip? What is dad's stance?

 

[TKO24]

In order for the 6 year old to obtain a passport, both parents will have to show up and sign the application. If dad signs the application, one would guess he wouldn't have an opposition to the child leaving the country.

Thanks, was unaware of this, useful to know and your guess does seem logical.

Looking at the relevant info on travel.state.gov... now, I see what you mean.

Has mom spoken to dad about dad taking the trip? What is dad's stance?

Dad is not travelling, will assume that's a typo and you meant "child".

No, father is unaware at present. Nothing has been booked yet. Therefore his stance is unknown.


Based on what you told me about the passport application, I suppose we'll find out then.

Thanks CC.

 

[CourtClerk]

You're welcome

Yes, that was a typo... however, I'm just curious:

Why doesn't mom just call dad up and say... hi, our son, myself and my boyfriend would like a trip to <fill in the blank> from X date to X date. I've already checked the calendar and it doesn't appear that this will interfere at all with your parenting time. I would just like to give you the courtesy as <child's> father to get your input as to whether or not you would have any objection to me taking him on a trip. I will supply you with contact numbers and photocopies of the tickets (both departure and return).

See... it's called communication. A lot of the times a lot of these issues can be diverted if people just communicate with each other.

If then dad doesn't agree, you may need to take the issue to a judge... however, until mom has this conversation (absent of you) with dad, you should hold off on purchasing any tickets. It is his child and he has the right to say no.

Does mom have any ties to where ever it is that you guys intend on visiting? Is she from there? Does she have family/friends there? Do you have any ties there? Do you have family or friends there?

 

[TKO24]

Ha! I always try to stick to the bare essential facts to avoid you guys wading through (what I believe) to be legally irrelevant points, but I shall indulge your curiosity! I hope it doesn't have any legal bearing, as it was not omitted just so I got the answer I wanted.

There are currently, and will remain, strong ties for the CP outside of the US. Currently, there is myself. I am a UK citizen, currently residing in the UK. We are currently going through the Fiance Visa (K1) route of immigration and once completed I shall be moving to the US, marrying and taking up residence. Once this has occurred, my family will remain a tie outside the US (sister is in Australia, parents remain in the UK).

NCP is fully aware of me, where I currently reside, my immigration and our marriage plans. His reaction was undstandably cautious, though not absolutely negative - basically, absolutely natural. He does not want his son to be relocated outside the US, and we are not planning to attempt that.

So ... whilst his stance is unknown, he could have natural fears about CP fleeing with son overseas - there is no basis for this fear, but it would be understandable. My questions are in regards to what happens if he does disapprove of any trip - as an NCP with a court order that does not detail any international visitation restrictions, as things stand can he legally object? Would he have to go to court to prevent it if he chose to? Is there any state or federal laws that prevent the CP travelling outside the US on a temporary basis with the child?

I understand about communication and that is the first step- my personality dictates that I prepare for bad news, hence this thread.

Was any of the above legally relevant based on the current CO? If so, apologies again for omitting.

We'll see about the passport and take it from there.

 

[profmum]

. My questions are in regards to what happens if he does disapprove of any trip - as an NCP with a court order that does not detail any international visitation restrictions, as things stand can he legally object? Would he have to go to court to prevent it if he chose to? Is there any state or federal laws that prevent the CP travelling outside the US on a temporary basis with the child?

He has a right to object to the trip and your fiance will have to get the Courts permission for this trip and future trips, I would communicate with him at the earliest to get things rolling.. passports itself are taking weeks to get done. At the very least you should have a letter from him (notarized) that outlines he is not objecting to the trip

 

[luckymom]

I actually went to court on the passport issue in several months ago. Ex refused to sign arguing that there was a danger of international abduction. Anyway, there was a very short hearing and the judge ordered him to sign the form. It did however take almost 10 weeks to get the passport after we submitted the application--so if this is going to be a problem, you may want to get moving. My lawyer mentioned that in some cases, the judge may require a parent who is leaving the country with a child to post a pretty significant bond.

 

[Ohiogal]

In order for the 6 year old to obtain a passport, both parents will have to show up and sign the application. If dad signs the application, one would guess he wouldn't have an opposition to the child leaving the country.

Has mom spoken to dad about dad taking the trip? What is dad's stance?

WRONG! Permission to get a passport is NOT the same as LEGALLY consenting to an out of country trip> Two very different things.

 

[Ohiogal]

In addition to a passport, dad needs to sign a notarized permission for HIS minor child to travel outside the country which dictates the travel dates and destinations. Or mom may not make it pass immigration in either this country or any other. That is a fact.
A passport DOES NOT equate to permission to travel outside the country. That is also a fact.

 

[LdiJ]

Ha! I always try to stick to the bare essential facts to avoid you guys wading through (what I believe) to be legally irrelevant points, but I shall indulge your curiosity! I hope it doesn't have any legal bearing, as it was not omitted just so I got the answer I wanted.

There are currently, and will remain, strong ties for the CP outside of the US. Currently, there is myself. I am a UK citizen, currently residing in the UK. We are currently going through the Fiance Visa (K1) route of immigration and once completed I shall be moving to the US, marrying and taking up residence. Once this has occurred, my family will remain a tie outside the US (sister is in Australia, parents remain in the UK).

NCP is fully aware of me, where I currently reside, my immigration and our marriage plans. His reaction was undstandably cautious, though not absolutely negative - basically, absolutely natural. He does not want his son to be relocated outside the US, and we are not planning to attempt that.

So ... whilst his stance is unknown, he could have natural fears about CP fleeing with son overseas - there is no basis for this fear, but it would be understandable. My questions are in regards to what happens if he does disapprove of any trip - as an NCP with a court order that does not detail any international visitation restrictions, as things stand can he legally object? Would he have to go to court to prevent it if he chose to? Is there any state or federal laws that prevent the CP travelling outside the US on a temporary basis with the child?

I understand about communication and that is the first step- my personality dictates that I prepare for bad news, hence this thread.

Was any of the above legally relevant based on the current CO? If so, apologies again for omitting.

We'll see about the passport and take it from there.

He would not have to go to court to prevent the trip. He can prevent the trip by simply refusing to sign for a passport for his child.

Its mom that would have to go to court to override his refusal to sign for a passport. Since mom is engaged to a UK resident, a judge probably would not give permission for the trip unless mom provided a financial bond to ensure that the child would be returning.

 

[CourtClerk]

WRONG! Permission to get a passport is NOT the same as LEGALLY consenting to an out of country trip> Two very different things.

I didn't necessarily think that him letting the child get a passport would give mom permission to leave the country with the child OG, perhaps I wasn't exactly clear, but my thought process was... we'll find out how much of an opposition dad would have once presented with a passport application. Then he could have the opportunity to voice his concern. Or take the matter to court.