Living Trust hidden from Beneficuraries

[Kevin_the_faran]

Estate in California

Father and Step Mother past away 6 months apart.
Step Uncle was executor.

4 benificuaries

Estate included...
House
Stocks
Bank Savings
Rare out of print antique books
Family Silver (140 years old)
Big Antique Doll Collection
Antique Furnature
Car.

I was told there was a living trust,
but the step uncle executor said there was not one.
My sister and I were grieving, not greeding, we signed some papers
and he was then executor, we had no reason to distrust him at the time.

Distribution was about 7 years ago.
But inventory was about 215k short (rough guess)

He also said the house was on the market for a year when it was not.
Many other wierd things coming to light about the whole thing.

I have since been told that there was indeed without doubt, a living trust,
and the step uncle concealed it from us.

Is it too late to do anything about it?

I just got burned by someone else recently, right in the heart too. I'm tired of it,
posted on it when I found this site, so I figured I'd throw this on the board too.

Thanks

Estate in Claifornia (I live in Washington State)

 

[Dandy Don]

Was the person BELIEVABLE who told you about the existence of a trust, and was that person a beneficiary of the trust? It would help if you could ask them to provide you with a copy of the trust or let you look at it to see if you were mentioned as a beneficiary.

Did this step-uncle also posibly obtain a power of attorney while either of your parents was alive?

Did anyone ask for an explanation of the $215K discrepancy with the inventory while the estate was still in probate? What was the estate worth in probate?

The problem is that if you were NOT named as a beneficiary in the trust, then you have no right to request information about it unless you were going to contest it. If you WERE named as beneficiary and if the trustee deliberately did not pay you (when the monies were there to pay you) then you have grounds to sue.

It's not too late to have this investigated, so discuss your options with a California trust attorney. One option you may have is to fill out a Freedom Of Information Act request from the irs.gov website to request copies of the trust federal income tax return to see the value of the trust and who it was distributed to, but do this only with your attorney's approval to ensure it is done correctly.

You have posted your question twice--please delete the posting that has no responses to it.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[lwpat]

The place to start is the probate court. You can order their files for a small fee. That should show you what was in the probate estate. Anything that was not in probate probably was in a trust. It is not too late if the Uncle did not do it properly (fraud). If the house is not listed, get a copy of the deed from the courthouse. That will tell you whether it was transferred to a trust. Then it is time to consult an attorney if you still have questions.

 

[Kevin_the_faran]

Person is totally believable.
Person was not a beneficiary.
But I am/was a beneficiary.

Person has no copy of the trust.

He was suggested as executor of will but...
We had to sign something to give wicked step uncle full power of attorney after parents died.
But he lied and said there was no trust. (I'm told it was a Living Trust)

I sent a letter to the judge 10 days before I went to Alaska for a 3 month contract abord
a fishing vessel. The letter asked for an extension stating that I would be indisposed for 3 months and that there were serious discrepancies in the inventory.

When I returned 3 months later I discovered the letter had been sent back to me by the
county clerk with a note attached saying the county clerk was sending it back because I
did not get the letter noterized.

By then it was too late. But I don't see why I need to noterize a letter which simply states
that I disagree with the inventory declaration.

The estate case was due to close (or whatever it's called) in a month, when I sent the letter. And I stated in the letter that I would be on a boat for 3 months with no real means of communicating.

What was the estate worth in probate?
Not sure I understand the question, but they said it was worth only 240k (including house)
there is/was at least another 200k -215k unaccounted for.

Quote:
"The problem is that if you were NOT named as a beneficiary in the trust, then you have no right to request information about it unless you were going to contest it. If you WERE named as beneficiary and if the trustee deliberately did not pay you (when the monies were there to pay you) then you have grounds to sue."

Reply:
I deffinately was named as one of 4 beneficiaries.
But how do I go about finding the trust? Where would records of it be?
Is the seemingly answer quoted below, the only way to get a record of it?...

Quote:
"One option you may have is to fill out a Freedom Of Information Act request from the irs.gov website to request copies of the trust federal income tax return to see the value of the trust and who it was distributed to, but do this only with your attorney's approval to ensure it is done correctly."

___________________

Quote:
"The place to start is the probate court. You can order their files for a small fee. That should show you what was in the probate estate. Anything that was not in probate probably was in a trust. It is not too late if the Uncle did not do it properly (fraud). If the house is not listed, get a copy of the deed from the courthouse. That will tell you whether it was transferred to a trust. Then it is time to consult an attorney if you still have questions."

Reply:
House is listed in the probate but, for a year he claimed it was on the market when it was not.
I assume they were trying to devise a way to steal the house too, one of the beneficiaries
a step brother, was living in the house during all this time, moved into it, and stripped it
of everything, antique furnature, appliances, etc... then a codicile magically appeared stating a valuble doll collection was to be given to them, rather than divided among the 4 benes, it was my maternal grandmother's doll collection originally, they got our family china and family silverware too, as well, a rare book collection, everything valuble.

 

[Kevin_the_faran]

Person is totally believable.
Person was not a beneficiary.
But I am/was a beneficiary.

Person has no copy of the trust.

Step Uncle was suggested as executor of will but...
We had to sign something to give wicked step uncle full power of attorney after parents died.
But he lied and said there was no trust. (I'm told it was a Living Trust)

I sent a letter to the judge 10 days before I went to Alaska for a 3 month contract abord
a fishing vessel. The letter asked for an extension stating that I would be indisposed for 3
months and that there were serious discrepancies in the inventory.

When I returned 3 months later I discovered the letter had been sent back to me by the
county clerk with a note attached saying the county clerk was sending it back because I
did not get the letter noterized.

By then it was too late. But I don't see why I need to noterize a letter which simply states
that I disagree with the inventory declaration.

The estate case was due to close (or whatever it's called) in a month, when I sent the letter.
And I stated in the letter that I would be on a boat for 3 months with no real means of communicating.

What was the estate worth in probate?
Not sure I understand the question, but they said it was worth only 240k (including house)
there is/was at least another 200k -215k unaccounted for.

Quote:
"The problem is that if you were NOT named as a beneficiary in the trust, then you have no right to request information about it unless you were going to contest it. If you WERE named as beneficiary and if the trustee deliberately did not pay you (when the monies were there to pay you) then you have grounds to sue."

Reply:
I deffinately was named as one of 4 beneficiaries.
But how do I go about finding the trust? Where would records of it be?
Is the seemingly answer quoted below, the only way to get a record of it?...

Quote:
"One option you may have is to fill out a Freedom Of Information Act request from the irs.gov website to request copies of the trust federal income tax return to see the value of the trust and who it was distributed to, but do this only with your attorney's approval to ensure it is done correctly."

___________________

Quote:
"The place to start is the probate court. You can order their files for a small fee. That should show you what was in the probate estate. Anything that was not in probate probably was in a trust. It is not too late if the Uncle did not do it properly (fraud). If the house is not listed, get a copy of the deed from the courthouse. That will tell you whether it was transferred to a trust. Then it is time to consult an attorney if you still have questions."

Reply:
I have a copy of everything, and was a bene in the will. But reliable sources say there was a living trust
for which my sister and I were also benes.

House is listed in the probate but, for a year he claimed it was on the market when it was not.
I assume they were trying to devise a way to steal the house too, one of the beneficiaries
a step brother, was living in the house during all this time, moved into it, and stripped it
of everything, antique furnature, appliances, etc... then a codicile magically appeared stating a valuble doll collection was to be given to them, rather than divided among the 4 benes, it was my maternal grandmother's doll collection originally, they got our family china and family silverware too, as well, a rare book collection, everything valuble.

The creepy part, their mother (my step mother) was at the end of a 9 year cancer battle.
Doctors gave her 6 months to live, suddenly and mysteriously my father in fairly good health,
just bloated up like a balloon, and died, a few months before she was due to die and did.

We were shocked, and grieving, but only after all the weirdness regarding the estate, did my
sister and I wonder if they had something to do with my father's death, fearing he himself might
do what their mother apparently did, doublecross with the aid of her brother after her death?
Almost all of the estate was built on my father's labor and his own inheritance as well.


.

 

[Dandy Don]

Is the person who told you about the trust a relative? I'm wondering who they are and how they would know about it's existence.

There is no truly easy way to get the copy of the trust you want, since it is not a public record but is a private record known only to the trustee and the beneficiaries. Only way you will get to see it is after your atttorney files a lawsuit.

I only suggested the IRS FOIA form as something you could do now, without resorting to litigation, to get a copy, but I don't know how long it takes (maybe could take more than 90 days), so that is why I suggested you consult with a trust attorney, since he/she may have other ideas about how to get it.

Please do look at the probate file first just to see how the estate was handled. You all had no business giving uncle power of attorney for anything after the parents died and you may have signed certain rights away without actually knowing what you signed, but your attorney can help you figure everything out. Looks like this executor is guilty of some type of theft which you may be able to recover.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[msiron]

What was listed as dads cause of death?

Did they do an autopsy, tox on your father? Did you tell them you suspected he could have been poisoned? If not tell them now. It does happen.

That is the BIG draw back with a trust, no trail unless you have a copy or the probated will refers to the trust. Many people, just read the threads here, get f'd as beneficiaries of a trust.

Who is this person who told you about the trust?

 

[Kevin_the_faran]

Another uncle, on my Dad's side (My Dad's real brother)
Said my dad and step mother made a living trust.

 

[msiron]

Another uncle, on my Dad's side (My Dad's real brother)
Said my dad and step mother made a living trust.

and that trust could reflect 'each other 'and not include anyone else?

A will should always reflect to the trust and vice versa. Mine does. This can eliminate a number problems that could arise from any persons or greedy relatives. And further backed up, by a time/date stamped video with reference to both the will & trust and mutiple copies with the master tape at the attorneys office. I also personally believe any beneficiaries should be told after creating both instruments and be given copies. I only have 1 child, 30 years old, and she has copies of everything. Why people don't do this is beyond me.