probable cause

[magicmic]

What is the name of your state? florida

 

[magicmic]

probable cause and or false arrest?

On November 30th at about 4:30 p.m. 2007 Michael Franklin {me the driver}and David Vanderbilt (passenger) were pulling out of 26th avenue westbound turning onto ninth street south heading northbound. As soon as I stopped my friends car (Honda Accord) at the 22nd avenue left turning lane I heard sirens and noticed an unmarked car to my left next to the drivers side door heading into oncoming traffic. The officer immediately exited his car and told me to exit the car.I asked the officer why I was being told to do so? At this point he told me to turn the car off and I immediately complied. Again the officer told me to exit the car and opened my door, again I complied. The officer who took me out of the car told me I was being arrested for marijuana found in the car. I replied “What marijuana?”. The officer then called out to an officer that was on the passenger side of the car and asked him if he had found some marijuana in the car?. the officer replied “Yes”. I notified the police officer I had just cleaned the car, and there was nothing in the car at all. I was then handcuffed and put in the back of the car. I then watched as the Honda was searched and driven off of the main street to a business parking lot on the northwest side of the street on the corner. When the officer returned to his vehicle he then drove his own cruiser off of the main road behind the Honda at the place of business. At the time a person came out of the business to see what was going on and the officer told the person that we would not be long and he would soon be gone. After the officer returned to the car he started to question me.I simply told the officer I wanted to talk to his superior because I didn’t feel safe with him around after being ridiculed and called names like” idiot” and “retarded” At the time of the traffic stop.This was the treatment I received for wanting to know why I was being apprehended in such a fashion that could be compared to someone being apprehended known to be armed and dangerous. The officer informed me that they didn’t have superior officers around there and closed the door. After a few minutes the officer returned and read me the Miranda warning I replied I understood my rights and wanted to speak to a lawyer. the officer ignored my request and kept questioning me on the marijuana. The officer informed me that the passenger David Vanderbilt said we were coming from buying weed so we could smoke it. I again denied any knowledge of his story. Again I asked to be taken to jail.
The captain was the next person to open the door and talk to me. He explained that he was there @ my request. I informed him of the verbal abuse I had taken during the first few seconds of the arrest. He said he would look into the complaint,but at this point he was interested in the marijuana that was found in the car. I again asked to be taken to jail. The captain then asked if I could identify the officer who verbally abused me and I explained that it was the first officer to apprehend the passenger on the passenger side of the car. the captain then closed the door again. The next time the door opened it was the captain. He explained to me that it was my lucky day, and that David had taken the wrap for all the marijuana. He then explained that I was still going to receive a charge for obstructing justice. Reason being I didn’t respond to getting out of the car when asked to twice during the first few seconds of the sting. I replied “you must be kidding right?” He then told me this was a gift and I should be happy. I started to argue and realizing this would only put him on the defensive I apologized again and dropped the issue. I told him I was disoriented at the time of the apprehension and that the officer accusing me of obstruction was the officer who verbally battered me during sting He again asked me to identify the officer who I was referring to,and let me out of the cruiser and removed the handcuffs. I then looked for the officer and positively identified the officer. I then confronted the officer about my claim and he denied all knowledge. After he denied the allegations I apologized to the officer for any feeling of obstruction he may have felt, and explained that I was listening to the officer on my side of the car. I also made it a point to say I didn’t feel safe getting out of the car in the middle of a 4 lane highway during a Friday afternoon rush. The officer accepted my apology and explained that he deals with the worst of the worst and he didn’t know what we had in the car. I said I understood and apologized again. The captain then told me to wait at the Honda for my obstruction charge. I complied. After ten minutes the officer who arrested me handed me a ticket for an expired tag and drove away. I was free to go.


[Question] does anyone see a problem here?

 

[CdwJava]

So ... I'm guessing the stop was for the expired tag? That means the stop was legit.

When you refused to comply with the officer's direction to exit the vehicle you may have run afoul of Florida's obstruction laws.

An arrest for marijuana is perfectly lawful. The fact that you were released when your passenger copped to it was a bonus for you since they did not really HAVE to do that. But, obviously, they decided they could not definitely tie it to you, so they cut you loose on that one.

You have a potential Miranda violation ... with no real remedy unless they try to use your statements against you; but, since you aren't going to court for the marijuana, that won't happen. However, case law in FL or in Circuit Court of Appeals region might permit a civil suit for a knowing violation even when there has been no damge. You can consider consulting an attorney if this happened ... keep in mind that the interview was likely recorded.

And, you also may make a personnel complaint regarding the attitude and conduct of the officer(s).

- Carl

 

[lwpat]

My take on the story:

The officers were staking out an area known for drug activity. Seeing your vehicle they correctly suspected that was why you were in the area. The expired tag gave them PC for the stop. Once stopped they can ask you and any passengers to exit the vehicle and ask general questions.

Moral of the story:

If you hadn't been dong something illegal there would have not been a problem.

The actions of the officer were over the top and I hope his Captain will have a talk with him. I cannot comment on whether finding the MJ was a legal search. Maybe, maybe not but that is no longer your problem. Even if he did violate your "rights" the remedy is supression of the evidence which is moot since you were not charged.

Lesson: Immediately comply with an officers request and keep your mouth shut. The place to argue about whether he can lawfully order you out of the car is not on the side of the road. I take special note of your use of "confronted" and "argued". As for being in the middle of a 4 lane road, that is where you chose to stop. By doing so you placed the officer in danger and he probably was not too happy about it. You should have pulled into the parking lot to start with.

 

[magicmic]

I just wanted to clear a couple of things up.First of all i was not given the opportunity to pull over,if you read my post i clearly stated that we were surrounded in the middle of the road at a stop light.The norm for a traffic violation[in my case expired tag] would clearly be handled by waiting for me to pull over into a safe place and the officer asking me for my registration and insurance[actually insurance isnt an issue in florida at this time].At this point smelling pot or observing something in plain view or even suspicios behavier could be further investigated.anyways my point s that i was being profiled and watched as i drove into an area known for drug sales.does this mean i lose my constitutional rights?I guess so.I understand keeping my mouth shut ,but is it against the law to ask why your being detained?i hope not.

 

[CdwJava]

anyways my point s that i was being profiled and watched as i drove into an area known for drug sales.

That is perfectly legal.

does this mean i lose my constitutional rights?

Of course not. But you do not have a right to be free from detentions on a traffic stop.

I understand keeping my mouth shut ,but is it against the law to ask why your being detained?i hope not.

No. But the officer does not have to answer you, and you do not have a right to refuse his lawful direction - in this case, to exit the vehicle. We get a tad concerned when that happens.

- Carl

 

[magicmic]

if i was to show that i was pulled over for profiling and suspician of drug possession then could i motion to the court for dismissal on the expired tag ticket?In accordamnce with florida law then showing no proboble cause for traffic stop?

 

[CdwJava]

if i was to show that i was pulled over for profiling and suspician of drug possession then could i motion to the court for dismissal on the expired tag ticket?In accordamnce with florida law then showing no proboble cause for traffic stop?

The problem you have is that you have an expired tag. Unless you can show that the ONLY reason they pulled you over was because of your race, the stop for that purpose was perfectly lawful.

They are allowed to have an underlying reason to pull you over (possible drugs), and can do so as long as they have legitimate cause for the stop - in this case, expired tags. The courts do not require that an officer's mind be free of all other motivations before making a traffic enforcement stop. So long as the sole or primary determinant was NOT your race, then it's good.

How do you intend to prove that the stop was racially motivated? The mere fact that you might be a minority is not proof of a racial bias.

- Carl

 

[magicmic]

I dont think the officers pulled me over for my race.I am a white guy.The passenger was a white guy as well.after leaving a place that i know was under survalance, a sting like traffic stop occurred during a friday afternoon rush hour.being in the middle of a four lane busy street may have concerned me personally as a little dangerous.i think everybody knows the dangers of heavy traffic.it seems to me my ticket is being used illegally as a way to show pc.the fact being that the tag was irrellavent until it became a tool after the fact to show pc.This is an abuse of the law.If in fact i had been pulled over for expired tag then this argument would be with no merit.The fact that i was pulled over fpr entering a dwelling under survalence for drug sales ,and simply left minding my own business seems to me like it violates my rights.No witnesses,no confidential informants ,and no prior investigation.If in fact a prior investigation,or some intell provided some type of historic record of this occurance, followed by some info from a witness or CI then my argument would seem to have alot less weght.I also feel being arrested ,detained,handcuffed ,and placed in the back of a cruiser is a little much for an expired tag.

 

[magicmic]

In reference to lepat's statements

 

[CavemanLawyer]

The US and all state's constitutions protect from unreasonable searches and seizures. If the search and seizure is indeed unreasonable because of lack of probable cause, that taints the evidence and can lead to its suppression...NOT to a dismissal of the charges per se. But even if the evidence is tainted, that taint can be purged if the person was in fact committing some other crime even if it has nothing to do with the reason you were stopped or the reason that evidence was obtained. This means that if you've got any expired tag or a defective tail light or anything that would constitute a traffic offense, in most cases it will purge any taint to the stop and subsequent investigation. So if your tag was expired, their stop is fine even if they subjectively just stopped you to profile you, or for no reason at all.

Now if they did stop you for an expired tag, then that in and of itself only gives them the right to investigate circumstances related to that traffic offense. So that's not sufficient to just go searching everybody. They'd need probable cause for that specific search. If the officers smelled marijuana they could search for drugs, if they could articulate that you might be carrying a weapon, they could search for weapons, etc... The fact that you can from an area that they knew was involved in drug activity could give them that justification too.

But the bottom line is that you are not being charged with possession of anything. There was no evidence that was seized. If that were the case then maybe there would be a suppression issue, but there's not. Freedom from unreasonable search and seizures just gives you the remedy of suppressing evidence unlawfully obtained.

 

[magicmic]

After the initial traffic stop,the driver [me] and the passenger were seperated of course.I myself exercised my right to remain silent.The passenger however, was questioned on the marijuana found in the car the ,and marijuana found inside a plastic tuppaware jar was found on his person.he admitted to the mj in the plastic container ,but denied knowledge of the other bag retrieved from the car.the police officers asked the passenger how much mj he bought ,and he replied a half ounce.The officer then questioned him on the other amount until he finally changed his story ,and admitted to all the mj found.The total amount found combined warranted a felony.The original amount in the tuppaware container would have only added up to a misdemeaner amount.could the passenger possibly have been pressured during questioning to take the wrap for mj that was not his?And if so what type of motion would be used to bring this to light? Or would it be something a jury would need to rule on?

 

[CdwJava]

The defendant can always raise the issue at trial or at a motion hearing to suppress any confession. He can argue that he was coerced to confess to something that he did not do, but very often this claim fails. And, it is also possible the officers recorded the contact.

Besides, the passenger's issue with the marijuana is not yours - you have no standing to do anything ... unless YOU want to take the rap for the other marijuana. Heck, you could have been cited/arrested for the marijuana in the car as well. It looks like they cut you a break on that one.

- Carl

 

[CJane]

The fact that i was pulled over fpr entering a dwelling under survalence for drug sales ,and simply left minding my own business

Minding your own business? Since when did minding your own business = a felony amount of marijuana ending up in your car?

Standard question: Would you still think this was unreasonable search and seizure if they HADN'T found the pot?

 

[magicmic]

I would just like to say that plice officers really dont give too many breaks.There was no evidence to prove possession of the mj in my car.somehow through,witnesses,physical evidence or even proximity ,and admittance by me after miranda rights had been read to me ,would have lead to my arrest.so nobody has really given me anything.i was just wondering about somebody being guilty of a misdemeaner amount of mj possibly being punished for a felony amount leads to a misjustice.We are fighting for justice right?or does the passenger of the car just deserve to get what he gets.