Question on Franklin County, NCP traveling more than 90 miles

[Kalso]

What is the name of your state? Ohio

I was divorced in August, 2006, and relocated to Georgia in October '06. Since then, my ex and I have had an arrangement whereby I drove up (1300 miles roundtrip) twice a month for visitations every other weekend. Our divorce decree simply stated that we wish to remain flexible with my parenting time, but when a disagreement arose, then I would be entitled to parenting time set forth in local Rule 27, Model visitation Schedule of Franklin County Court of Domestic Relations. I maintain an apartment in the Columbus area for these visitations.

About 2 months ago, my work situation changed. I work from home, and we could no longer afford to take two separate trips per month. So, we worked it out where I could stay in Ohio for two weeks, then travel back to Georgia for two weeks, taking work with me wherever I went. With this new arrangement, my ex and I agreed on an alteration in our previous plan. I would get my girls on Monday nights (my ex works late on Mondays) and would get them for the "middle" weekend that I was in Ohio. I also agreed to pick up my oldest daughter from preschool on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons both weeks, and take her back to their babysitter. My ex-wife cannot pick her up from school due to her work schedule, and has to rely on her local friends and family to do so when I was unable to. That situation did not change with my change in travel schedule.

While we had the every-other weekend plan in place, I told her repeatedly what weekends we would be up, and what the proposed schedule would be, and that we would notify her as soon as we knew of any unforeseen events. Even given that, she was persistent in demanding not only our schedule a month in advance, but she also wanted me to email her a week in advance of when I was coming up. When the new travel situation arose, she still demanded to know when we would be coming up a month in advance, even though I had told her that the schedule was to be 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there.

What I'm running into now, and if you'd like some of the background on our previous problems, it can be viewed here: https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=337302, is that due to my changing role with my clients, there have been times where I wasn't able to get the girls for a Monday. One Monday. I had a situation arise last month where I thought I wasn't going to be able to, but it turned out I was able to work my schedule around and have my parenting time as planned. The problem is that these "last-minute" changes have angered her to the point that she is now demanding to go back to the every-other weekend schedule. Let me say also, that by last-minute, I mean I notified her as soon as I could, and usually no less than one week before the deviation. In fact, the least amount of notice she's had has been 4 days.

When she demanded to go back to the every other weekend schedule, I brought to her attention that under Rule 27, for non-resident parents traveling more than 90 miles one way, under paragraph 6, section c. "The non-residential parent shall notify the residential parent at least two days in advance of any time the non-residential parent will be in the area and wants parenting time. Absent extraordinary circumstances, this parenting time shall occur." So I told her that she can expect to hear from me at least 48 hours in advance of when I will be in the area, and want parenting time with my girls. I've given her 6 days notice that I will be in the area, and want parenting time spanning from Thursday through Monday.

She has said she's going to talk with her lawyer, and I guess my question is, what can she possibly talk to him about? Can she try to force me into a schedule that I may not be able to afford? Can she deny me more than the Friday through Sunday this weekend?

Another question I had falls under the school activities...In our divorce papers, it entitles me to access, under the same terms and conditions as the resident parent, to any student activity that is related to our children. My daughter's preschool won't let me add my wife to the "allowable pickup list" for my daughter without my ex-wife's approval. Does adding someone fall under this access clause?What is the name of your state?

 

[Ohiogal]

Not is Rule 27 is what governs your parenting time. She may want to seek a modification changing the current plan to one more to her liking. she could attempt to deny you more than Friday through Sunday. And if she does you could take her to court for contempt depending on the exact wording of your plan.

YOu being on the pickup list is access. You could add stepmom to the pickup list and they shouldn't be able to stop you but doesn't mean they won't. most preschools and daycares and even schools are ignorant of the law. Check out the statute 3109.051 (H) I do believe.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? Ohio

I was divorced in August, 2006, and relocated to Georgia in October '06. Since then, my ex and I have had an arrangement whereby I drove up (1300 miles roundtrip) twice a month for visitations every other weekend. Our divorce decree simply stated that we wish to remain flexible with my parenting time, but when a disagreement arose, then I would be entitled to parenting time set forth in local Rule 27, Model visitation Schedule of Franklin County Court of Domestic Relations. I maintain an apartment in the Columbus area for these visitations.

About 2 months ago, my work situation changed. I work from home, and we could no longer afford to take two separate trips per month. So, we worked it out where I could stay in Ohio for two weeks, then travel back to Georgia for two weeks, taking work with me wherever I went. With this new arrangement, my ex and I agreed on an alteration in our previous plan. I would get my girls on Monday nights (my ex works late on Mondays) and would get them for the "middle" weekend that I was in Ohio. I also agreed to pick up my oldest daughter from preschool on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons both weeks, and take her back to their babysitter. My ex-wife cannot pick her up from school due to her work schedule, and has to rely on her local friends and family to do so when I was unable to. That situation did not change with my change in travel schedule.

While we had the every-other weekend plan in place, I told her repeatedly what weekends we would be up, and what the proposed schedule would be, and that we would notify her as soon as we knew of any unforeseen events. Even given that, she was persistent in demanding not only our schedule a month in advance, but she also wanted me to email her a week in advance of when I was coming up. When the new travel situation arose, she still demanded to know when we would be coming up a month in advance, even though I had told her that the schedule was to be 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there.

What I'm running into now, and if you'd like some of the background on our previous problems, it can be viewed here: https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=337302, is that due to my changing role with my clients, there have been times where I wasn't able to get the girls for a Monday. One Monday. I had a situation arise last month where I thought I wasn't going to be able to, but it turned out I was able to work my schedule around and have my parenting time as planned. The problem is that these "last-minute" changes have angered her to the point that she is now demanding to go back to the every-other weekend schedule. Let me say also, that by last-minute, I mean I notified her as soon as I could, and usually no less than one week before the deviation. In fact, the least amount of notice she's had has been 4 days.

When she demanded to go back to the every other weekend schedule, I brought to her attention that under Rule 27, for non-resident parents traveling more than 90 miles one way, under paragraph 6, section c. "The non-residential parent shall notify the residential parent at least two days in advance of any time the non-residential parent will be in the area and wants parenting time. Absent extraordinary circumstances, this parenting time shall occur." So I told her that she can expect to hear from me at least 48 hours in advance of when I will be in the area, and want parenting time with my girls. I've given her 6 days notice that I will be in the area, and want parenting time spanning from Thursday through Monday.

She has said she's going to talk with her lawyer, and I guess my question is, what can she possibly talk to him about? Can she try to force me into a schedule that I may not be able to afford? Can she deny me more than the Friday through Sunday this weekend?

Another question I had falls under the school activities...In our divorce papers, it entitles me to access, under the same terms and conditions as the resident parent, to any student activity that is related to our children. My daughter's preschool won't let me add my wife to the "allowable pickup list" for my daughter without my ex-wife's approval. Does adding someone fall under this access clause?What is the name of your state?

Your order says...flexible or if you disagree, rule 27 applies (I am paraphrasing).

Does rule 27 state that you can have any days that you want with proper notice? Is it intended to override any plans that the other parent might have? I think that the key is to make sure that you fully understand rule 27 as it applies to your case, and to make sure that what you are asking for falls within the scope of rule 27.

Generally a long distance rule that allows for parenting time, with proper notice, anytime the parent is in the area, is designed to cover additional parenting time opportunites, outside of a regular schedule. For example, if you had a long distance plan that gave you the bulk of the summer, and every other school holiday, then additional parenting time when you were in the area, would be "bonus" time, and would generally be infrequent.

However, what you are doing is a regular and consistant schedule where you are in the area for specific amounts of time each month. If that is going to continue, then you really need a set parenting schedule that accomodates that. To be honest, it appears to me that you are basically living in both locations.

You have already told us that the fallback position under rule 27, if you are local, is every other weekend, plus whatever else rule 27 says. What does rule 27 say in total, about a long distance situation?

You need to make sure that you are not trying to take the "best of both worlds" from rule 27, in order to give you the flexible schedule that you want, without any kind of fallback schedule. In other words, if you are combining local elements with long distance elements then you may defeat the whole purpose of "as agreed or you follow rule 27". I hope you understand what I mean there...because it was difficult to articulate.

Let me give you another example (totally different than yours) that might make the point I am making more understandable. You have a long distance parent, who is relatively wealthy and can afford to travel many times each month. He has the bulk of the summers and school holidays under a long distance plan, but since he can afford to travel extensively, he flies into the children's area most weekends, giving only 48 notice. In that instance, mom would get very few weekends (if any) with the children, and could never make solid weekend plans. That obviously isn't the intent of rule 27 and obviously isn't fair to the children or mom...dad got the bulk of the summer and school holidays, under the premise that mom would have most weekends, giving them both some non-school, non-work time with the kids.

If I were mom, I would want to take it back to court to have a set and enforceable schedule....whatever that schedule ended up being. I would also want to know the monthly schedule in advance if it was going to change from month to month. After all, she and the children have a life and plans together too.

Anyway, I would guess that whether or not a judge would "ding" mom for not allowing you Thursday through Monday this weekend, would depend on whether or not the judge found you to be local for the purpose of rule 27, or long distance for the purpose of rule 27. I think it could go either way.

 

[Kalso]

I understand what you mean, LdiJ. It seems like the long distance section is very exploitable, the way it's written. I also understand the need for schedules and such, but with my work as it is, any schedule needs to be extremely flexible, and that's where I have the falling out with my ex.

I have worked with her on numerous occasions that she needed flexibility in the schedule, including Christmas last year, Spring Break, Summer Break, and a number of last-minute changes that she has requested. Her last-minute changes are usually of the less than one day notice variety. There were a few times that I wasn't able to accommodate her changes, and believe me, I heard about it. Not that I really care, that's her problem. Just trying to show her pattern of unwillingness to work with me when I have unforeseen/unavoidable circumstances on my end.

As far as the visitation breakdown in the local rule 27 is as follows (I'll paraphrase to save space):
1. Pre-school age children follow the same schedule as their school district (she actually tried to tell me at one point that it didn't apply to the baby because she was an infant, not in the "preschool age"...hehe)
2. Winter break will be divided in half, and alternated annually between the parents
3. Spring break NCP is entitled to the entire school vacation in odd-numbered years.
4. Summer - each parent is entitled to one-half of the summer vacation (unless summer school is required) CP needs to notify NCP of the schedule by March 15, and the NCP needs to notify the CP of his/her intentions by April 15.
5. Vacations - each parent may schedule an uninterrupted vacation of no more than 2 weeks (in the less than 90 mile section, this is restricted to during that parent's half of the summer, but there's no such stipulation in the long-distance section.)
6. Additional Parenting time -
a. once-a-month weekend visit to the NCP's home so long as the children's travel time does not exceed 3.5 hours one way. the CP should be notified 1 week in advance.
b. Mother's Day and Father's Day should be spent with the appropriate parent
c. The non-residential parent shall notify the residential parent at least two days in advance of any time the non-residential parent will be in the area and wants parenting time. Absent extraordinary circumstances, this parenting time shall occur. (exact quote)
d. The CP will give at least 48 hours notice to the NCP of any time in which the CP is in the NCP's home area with the children, and parenting time must be allowed.

The remainder of rule 27 deals with telephone access, moving, transportation, etc. and doesn't give any more guidelines for visitation/parenting time.

I'm not looking for the "best of both worlds"...at least, I'm not trying to. My ex is the one who swaps out which one she goes by based on what suits her needs. I understand the need for schedules. I didn't have a problem with the arrangement we had, like I said, my problem was that when an unavoidable circumstance arose I was met with hostility, and ultimatums. She actually told me "This is it for last minute changes otherwise we go back to every other weekend. " ... when this was really the first time that we had any last-minute changes from my end. There was one that arose last month, but I was able to work that out.

Something else to keep in mind is that by taking the girls on Monday nights, I was helping her out. I suggested Monday nights while I was in town because otherwise she has to rely on her brothers who live in town, or her friends/neighbors to take care of the children because of her late work schedule on Mondays. My concern is that right now, I can't afford to go back to the every other weekend schedule. I also understand what you're saying about a judge "finding me local" because I maintain an apartment here in Columbus. I am presently able to spend two weeks per month in Columbus because I work from home. If I had a job outside the home in Georgia (my state of residence), then I wouldn't be able to come up to see them at all unless I took vacation time (the drive takes at least 10 hours). So to my mind, I would think a judge would see that I am doing the best I can, doing more than most, to spend time with my girls. And that while I'm happy to do so, I do need some flexibility in that from mom. I guess what my major issue is that she is VERY intolerant of changes, even given a week's notice, and that she is trying to force me into a situation that will severely limit my opportunity to be with my children.

We've given serious thought to letting the apartment in Ohio go, but then we'd have visitations in a hotel room, and not in what the girls consider their "other home". I want my girls to know that my home is their home too, and not just a place they go to spend time with Daddy. I suppose what I should be asking is...how do I combat this? I don't mind having a schedule, but I need flexibility. How do I work with mom while protecting my interests? Thus far (roughly a year) we've been able to stick to the schedule for the vast majority of the time. In fact, most of the alterations to the schedule have been to accommodate mom. Which, again, I have no problem doing. The problems come up when I have to alter it due to some unforeseen/unavoidable circumstance. I finally got fed up with her ultimatums. She said that we'd go back to every other weekend, and if I wanted them on Wednesday nights, I could have them then because "that's what's in the guidelines". Yes, it is in rule 27, but under the local section. This is an example of what I mean that mom takes what suits her. She denied me Thanksgiving Day because there's no provision for that under the long-distance section, but wanted me to adhere to the local section's weekend schedule.

*sigh* and I was trying not to write a book this time...sorry guys.

Anyway, what's the best way to protect my interests in regards to visitation with my girls? I don't foresee any cooperation from my ex, unless it happens to coincide with her demands/wishes. (another pattern of hers) I have saved emails from her that point out this trend of non-cooperation and hostility in case this ever goes to court (mostly because at one point she had told me something on the phone and then denied ever having said it...at that point, I demanded all correspondence be via email). Those are admissible in court, right? Do judges pay attention to things like that?

 

[CJane]

Anyway, what's the best way to protect my interests in regards to visitation with my girls?

I really think that YOU need to decide whether you're LOCAL or LONG DISTANCE for the purposes of visitation. Not what is working right now, but what is likely to work for the long term. We can't always change visitation due to work schedules, no matter how much we'd like to... so, if you're going to continue living in Georgia, I think you need to reconcile yourself to a long distance schedule and adhere to it as much as possible except for 'extra time' that you can be in the area.

 

[Kalso]

I really think that YOU need to decide whether you're LOCAL or LONG DISTANCE for the purposes of visitation. Not what is working right now, but what is likely to work for the long term. We can't always change visitation due to work schedules, no matter how much we'd like to... so, if you're going to continue living in Georgia, I think you need to reconcile yourself to a long distance schedule and adhere to it as much as possible except for 'extra time' that you can be in the area.

In a sense, CJane, that's what I'm doing. I'm adhering to the long distance schedule, except for the extra time I can be in Ohio (which, at present, is every other 2 weeks). I don't feel I'm asking for an extraordinary amount of time...I'm not looking to take the children every weekend with minimal notice. I just don't want her to lock me into a schedule to which I cannot adhere. Meaning, if she sets a schedule, and the weeks/weekends I can come up are during "her" time, then I'm screwed, and my girls don't get time with their father. Maybe a better way to ask it would be how do I make sure that it's not just mom's wants/needs that are taken into consideration? How do I protect my relationship with my children and their needs while remaining within the confines of my resources?

It should be noted..again, I'm not adverse to giving her a schedule. I want her to be able to make plans and to be able to work with her on scheduling. The questions being asked are a direct result of her demand that we go back to a schedule I can in no way adhere to. I am speaking both in terms of financial resources and time as limited by demands placed on me by the clients I work for. I have no desire to just "pop" in on her all the time. I want to be able to make plans as well. However, I do not have a babysitter, friends, and family in the area to help me out. When my work forces me to have to make changes I have no one in the area but her. If I did, I would contact them instead of asking her. The problem is that she considers that unacceptable. Meanwhile, when she calls the night before and tells me that she has to work late the following day (a day that I was not slated to see the children at all; which means I have to then turn around and not only rearrange personal aspects but work aspects as well) she expects me to jump at her command. I'm simply asking that she give me the same respect and consideration I have shown her in working with changes. There were two times when I was scheduled to work and could not get out of it no matter what I did to change that. Again, if I had a support structure or a larger place that allowed me to isolate my work area then I would have taken them those times as well to help her out and have more time with my girls. Other than those two times I have taken the children every time she has asked no matter how short the notice.

I feel it important to mention that none of this would've been an issue if, like my ex, I had a support structure of friends and family in this area. My thought is that that's why the "fallback rule" was written this way, because an NCP who lives over 90 miles away won't have that support in place. This all came about because she went overboard because an obligation kept me from being able to take the girls on one of these "extra" Mondays that I had suggested to help her and her family out (in addition to getting more time with my children).

Maybe what I should be asking is am I going to be penalized because I've been taking extraordinary measures, and incurring extra expense to spend as much time as possible with my children? Because mom doesn't think that any of my actions deserve any merit because, to quote her, it was my choice to move. I agree...it WAS my choice, and I accept that. That's WHY I've been taking these measures to have the most time I possibly can with my girls. I'm not looking for a pat on the back, I'm just trying to make sure my ex doesn't put a knife in it. (proverbially speaking, of course) I haven't asked for any reduction in child support (although from the divorce papers, such visitation costs could be a cause for deviation), I haven't asked for any help with transportation (now, when the children were with me in Georgia for my half of the summer, I did refuse to drive them up to Ohio for her visitation weekends...), I haven't asked for anything but understanding when the rare unavoidable circumstance forces me to forfeit previously agreed upon parenting time. She played the "we'll just go back to the guidelines" card, I just made sure that it was the appropriate guidelines we adhered to.

 

[LdiJ]

I really think that YOU need to decide whether you're LOCAL or LONG DISTANCE for the purposes of visitation. Not what is working right now, but what is likely to work for the long term. We can't always change visitation due to work schedules, no matter how much we'd like to... so, if you're going to continue living in Georgia, I think you need to reconcile yourself to a long distance schedule and adhere to it as much as possible except for 'extra time' that you can be in the area.

I agree with this.

Also,

c. The non-residential parent shall notify the residential parent at least two days in advance of any time the non-residential parent will be in the area and wants parenting time. Absent extraordinary circumstances, this parenting time shall occur. (exact quote)[/quote}

In my opinion, your circumstances ARE extraordinary in that you spend 2 weeks in mom's community every month. If you are going to continue doing that, or continue to visit every other weekend, then in my opinion you are local for the purposes of rule 27.

So again, like CJane said, you need to decide, and honestly you really need a set schedule.

If you can live in GA and do every other weekend, the judge will give that to you. However, a judge will not give you a schedule that says every other weekend, BUT if dad can't afford to travel twice one month, then he gets Thursday to Monday on one weekend instead.

 

[Kalso]

Ok...perhaps this will help a little with the confusion. If it had not been for the desire to help her with her late work Mondays and the pick up of our oldest daughter on Tuesdays and Thursdays from school, I would not be in Ohio for 2 weeks at a time. I would only be up for my "normal time" with my girls. The two weeks here and two weeks there was put in place because it helped my ex out and worked with my wife's ex-husband's visitation. Also, I could no longer afford to pay full child support, maintain a place for visitation, and pay for the expense of travel twice a month (equating to 2600 miles). I had to cut it to one trip per month.

Maybe I should also present the visitation schedule we had in place while I was in Ohio for the two week period. I'll use this trip to illustrate. We arrived in Ohio on Sunday, 12/9. On the first Monday we're in town (today), I was to pick up the girls from the babysitter's, and keep them overnight. I was to return them to the babysitter's on Tuesday morning, where mom would pick them up after work. My next visitation time with them was on Friday, again in this case 12/14. I gave mom the choice that I could pick them up from the babysitter's, or she could and then do the exchange, so that she could see them before I would get them for the weekend. I would get them then from Friday through Monday (taking to and getting from the babysitter's on Monday), and drop them off at the babysitter's Tuesday morning, in this case 12/18, where mom would pick them up after work. During both weeks we were in town, I would pick up my older daughter from preschool on Tuesday and Thursday (the 2 days a week she has school) and return her to the babysitter's, whether or not they were considered "with me," or "with mom." I thought this schedule was more than fair. It gave me approximately the same amount of days with my girls as every other weekend does, and it helped mom out with her schedule, so she didn't have to rely on others so much. The quality of the time I was able to spend with my children with this schedule was also better, as I wasn't tired from a 10 hour drive, I didn't have to hurry to get them back to mom in order to make the drive back, etc. The problem came in when I gave her a week's notice that I wouldn't be able to have the children on a Monday night. One Monday. This is when she demanded that we return to the every other weekend schedule, using the guidelines for a local NCP, which I simply cannot afford. I took the position that I am not a local NCP, a position she supports so long as it suits her needs, and therefore, as stated in Rule 27 only have to provide 48 hours notice, even though I usually give her much more notice than that.

Again, I have NO problem with a schedule. And the only time it has become an issue was on a Monday that I had no choice in working.

I have made the choice, CJane. My home is in Georgia. That is where I live, and where I lived the majority of the time until this new arrangement came into being. That is where I get my mail. I pay bills there too. Speaking in terms of roots that is where my extended family resides (meaning my wife's as my family actually lives in PA).

Two weeks in Ohio and two weeks in Georgia seemed to be the best solution for everyone involved. But if that will hurt me and allow her to dictate a schedule I have no hope of being able to keep with, then I will cut it to being in the area only during actual "scheduled" time, and not be available to help her out with transportation, her unexpected schedule changes, working late on Mondays, etc. as I have been. Meaning I will arrive the night before pick up and leave the day after drop off. In that manner I will be able to see them on a regular basis within the confines of my financial (primarily) and time resources. Notifying mom at least 48 hours in advance of when I plan to be in the area, as per Rule 27. Usually vastly more than that.

I try my utmost to give her as much notice as it is possible for me to give. I have tried in good faith to work with her and take not only my children's best interest to heart but also to do it in a way that is as fair as I can make it to everyone. I had no idea that trying my dead level best to be there for my children as much as my resources would allow and asking only that my ex-wife cooperate with me the way I cooperate with her could result in my being railroaded.

I understand the need for schedules and support them. I do not understand a position of intolerance when the other party expects tolerance from me.

Is this what is being said? Am I understanding correctly? That in order to protect my ability to see my children the equivalent of every other weekend, I should pursue this avenue, meaning stay in Georgia full time, and only come up to Ohio when I can afford to do so (after giving mom as much notice as possible), spend my four days in Ohio then go back to Georgia?