Holidays I Celebrate and STBX Does Not

[GottaGo]

What is the name of your state? NJ

Husband and I are separated, custody/visitation agreement arranged thru mediator and signed by judge Feb 07.

Joint custodial, I retain residential custody.
In that agreement, we agreed that we would split Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, and Christmas day every other year with all other holidays falling as they may.

I have in the last year become a Christian and some of these holidays (Christmas, Easter, for example) have gained a new signifigance for me. Whereas before I celebrated them in the secular sense, they now have a deeper religious and personal meaning for me.

STBX does not celebrate any holidays. He was raised a Jehovah's Witness and although is not a practicing member any longer he still does not celebrate any holidays. No Thanksgiving, no Easter, no Christmas, no birthdays, no 4th July...you get the picture.

STBX refuses to allow me these holidays, insisting that it is 'a day off when his family can get together'.
While I do understnad that, STBX's fam is very close and all get together quite often.
I also understand that STBX has just as much of a right to NOT celebrate with kids as I do to celebrate with kids, but can't he NOT celebrate the holiday in question on the other 364 days of the year?

Do you think it is reasonable for me to ask a judge to grant me the holidays given this situation?

Thanks!

 

[acmb05]

What is the name of your state? NJ

Husband and I are separated, custody/visitation agreement arranged thru mediator and signed by judge Feb 07.

Joint custodial, I retain residential custody.
In that agreement, we agreed that we would split Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, and Christmas day every other year with all other holidays falling as they may.

I have in the last year become a Christian and some of these holidays (Christmas, Easter, for example) have gained a new signifigance for me. Whereas before I celebrated them in the secular sense, they now have a deeper religious and personal meaning for me.

STBX does not celebrate any holidays. He was raised a Jehovah's Witness and although is not a practicing member any longer he still does not celebrate any holidays. No Thanksgiving, no Easter, no Christmas, no birthdays, no 4th July...you get the picture.

STBX refuses to allow me these holidays, insisting that it is 'a day off when his family can get together'.
While I do understnad that, STBX's fam is very close and all get together quite often.
I also understand that STBX has just as much of a right to NOT celebrate with kids as I do to celebrate with kids, but can't he NOT celebrate the holiday in question on the other 364 days of the year?

Do you think it is reasonable for me to ask a judge to grant me the holidays given this situation?

Thanks!

I don't because you knew he did not celebrate these holidays when you agreed to the every other holiday. You should have asked for these Holidays the first time since you knew he did not celebrate them.

 

[GottaGo]

I agree acmb, I should have asked at that time...but honestly i was just trying so hard not to rock the boat at that time.
I just really wanted to get some peace back into my life at the time of the hearing and i didn't fight for this the way I should have.

I am feeling more comfortable now, less afraid of his volatility,and ready to stand up a little more for myself.
And plus, as I stated in the original post, at the time of the hearing I was a very new Christian. Christmas and Easter in particular have a new meaning to me now that they never did before.

 

[wileybunch]

I do not think you should think of asking to have all holidays.
The holidays are when kids have off from school. And though you have a religiously-based approach to these times, he has a secular approach and that's the reality of the kids' lives with their parents.

 

[Ohiogal]

And courts quite frankly are NOT going to care about your religious reasons. They won't even consider them as a reason to deprive dad of time. Saying you deserve more time because you are Christian and he is Jehovah's Witness? Oh yeah. The court will NOT do that -- because the court is NOT allowed to put one religion above another. And state in any way that one is superior to the other. You will lose on that argument.

 

[GottaGo]

Thanks, everyone.

Wileybunch: actually, he does have a secular approach b/c a secular approach means that he would still celebrate them but just not for religious reasons. He just doesn't celebrate them at all, they are regular days. Which is fine.

Ohiogal: yes, I agree courts should not put one religion over another, although in this case it is one religion over no religion, b/c he is not practicing anything.
I do not wish to take time away from dad, he gets extra time often, all he has to do is request it, which he does.

What if I get Thanksgiving and he gets the day after? Kids are always off then.
I could have Christmas Eve and Day, and he could have the 26th and 27th. Kids are also always off then.
He could have the saturday before Easter and I could have Easter Sunday.


So, let me ask a new question to everyone...
If you were my attorney, you had to represent me in this situation, what would be the best approach/presentation for this?

Thanks, again.

 

[stealth2]

Ohiogal: yes, I agree courts should not put one religion over another, although in this case it is one religion over no religion, b/c he is not practicing anything.
I do not wish to take time away from dad, he gets extra time often, all he has to do is request it, which he does.

Which is basically the same thing. Freedom of religion is also freedom FROM religion. No court is going to say (essentially) that A religion is better than NO religion. What you are asking is for the court to sanction your imposition of your religion on the children you share with a non-religious man. That's not going to happen.

What *I* would suggest you do is shift your focus from the date of the holiday to the meaning behind it. Have your children accompany you to help at a soup kitchen. Collect toys & clothes for the needy. Volunteer some time together at your local food pantry. And so on and so forth. That is more pleasing to God than your presence in His home.

What if I get Thanksgiving and he gets the day after? Kids are always off then.
I could have Christmas Eve and Day, and he could have the 26th and 27th. Kids are also always off then.
He could have the saturday before Easter and I could have Easter Sunday.

When did Thanksgiving become a religious holiday?

 

[profmum]

What is the name of your state? NJ

Husband and I are separated, custody/visitation agreement arranged thru mediator and signed by judge Feb 07.

Joint custodial, I retain residential custody.
In that agreement, we agreed that we would split Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, and Christmas day every other year with all other holidays falling as they may.

I have in the last year become a Christian and some of these holidays (Christmas, Easter, for example) have gained a new signifigance for me. Whereas before I celebrated them in the secular sense, they now have a deeper religious and personal meaning for me.

STBX does not celebrate any holidays. He was raised a Jehovah's Witness and although is not a practicing member any longer he still does not celebrate any holidays. No Thanksgiving, no Easter, no Christmas, no birthdays, no 4th July...you get the picture.

STBX refuses to allow me these holidays, insisting that it is 'a day off when his family can get together'.
While I do understnad that, STBX's fam is very close and all get together quite often.
I also understand that STBX has just as much of a right to NOT celebrate with kids as I do to celebrate with kids, but can't he NOT celebrate the holiday in question on the other 364 days of the year?

Do you think it is reasonable for me to ask a judge to grant me the holidays given this situation?

Thanks!

so you are asking the judge to give you easter, birthdays, and 4th July, possibly Memorial day and Labor day.... correct me if I am wrong with the exception of Easter, what do the other holidays have to do with religion? Your agreement already allows you to split T day and Xmas day right? and the divorce was final Feb 07.? In addition chances are some of these holidays will fall on your regular parenting time?

Not sure if you will get very far with the judge on getting any holiday past easter for the reasons you give.. particularly to "Get" Xmas and T day, since you already have an agreement about them... best option would be to either try and get the x to cooperate or to live with the agreement you made.. after all God is with us every day no just on Xmas or easter

 

[Just Blue]

GottaGo...You DO realize the Christ wasn't actually born on Dec 25th...right? Early Christians chose that day to align with the Winter Solstice (celebrated by Pagans). So YOU could choose another day to celebrate Christmas...Dec 26th...May8th...Whatever...

 

[GottaGo]

Forgive me, I don't know how to cut and paste the snippets from each post that I would like to address, so I will have to paraphrase...

Stealth:
You say that freedom of religion is also freedom from religion. Good point, but as I said earlier, can't he NOT celebrate whichever holiday it is on the other 364 days of the year?
You also state that a court will not sanction my imposition of my religion on my children that I share w/non-religious man.
I disagree. I think that as their parent I am absolutely allowed to 'impose' my religion on my children, just as is their father. He can be free from religion every day of his life. They can also be 'free' when they are with him, or if they so choose as they get older (they are only 4 and 1). These 'significant' holidays occur only once a year and I have a right to teach about and practice them along with the rest of the Christian world. Everyday to stbx is just regular.

I am just not getting why if a day means something to me but means nothing to him, why can I not have it?

Wait, I think I know the answer to that one...
Just because it may be the 'right', or 'moral', or 'kind' thing to do doesn't mean that the courts will force someone to do it. They are concerned only with the law.
I get it.

Also to you stealth, good suggestions about the holiday shift to meanings. We (the children and me) do discuss the concepts that these holidays are supposed to be based on on a regular basis and I have begun to incorporate these things into our everyday lives.
No, Thanksgiving is not religious, I was just throwing that in as an example. (although, of course, you know I wouldn't mind if that were a court-appointed day with me as well )


Profmum:
We are still married. The agreement to which i refer is one we came to with a mediator regarding custody and visitation, not a divorce agreement.
No, I do not want every holiday. Only Christmas Eve and Day and Easter have religious meaning to me. I was just using those others as examples of things he does not celebrate.
Yes, I am well aware God is with us everyday.
The point of this is these days are special to me and are just another day to my husband.

Baystate:
Yes, I know that, thanks. We celebrate Christ every day here! (But 12/24 and 12/25 are still special!)

Thanks everyone.

 

[profmum]

Forgive me, I don't know how to cut and paste the snippets fr

Profmum:
We are still married. The agreement to which i refer is one we came to with a mediator regarding custody and visitation, not a divorce agreement.
No, I do not want every holiday. Only Christmas Eve and Day and Easter have religious meaning to me. I was just using those others as examples of things he does not celebrate.
Yes, I am well aware God is with us everyday.
The point of this is these days are special to me and are just another day to my husband.

That may very well be, and even if you are still married you haved out a custody agreement BASED on the fact that you will be getting divorced!!! and in addition you already have an agreement about Xmas eve and Xmas day that you AGREED TO (hey judge I did not want to rock the boat at the time i agreed to splitting these days with my x is not going to get you very far).. and if the x does not agree, it is highly unlikely that a judge will give you both Xmas and X mas every year.... highly unlikely...you are getting divorced ... time to realize you will not always get what you want and also that you need to pick your battles.

 

[Just Blue]

Baystate:
Yes, I know that, thanks. We celebrate Christ every day here! (But 12/24 and 12/25 are still special!)

You are not getting my point...You want to modify based on the religious significance of the Day...I am pointing out that the day itself has no REAL religious significance...It is arbitrary. Celebrate the birth of Christ on another day...You have 364 days to choose from...

 

[stealth2]

Another thing to consider, in terms of picking another day to celebrate Christmas... Many Christians celebrate Christmas based on the Julian calendar, which places Christmas on January 7. We celebrate both, so when the kiddos are with their Dad on the 25th, we just shift all the celebration to the 7th.

As for imposing your religion.... He has the same right as you do to impose his lack of religion - including NOT celebrating the holidays when he has the kids.

Seriously, you're not going to win this one in court. You'd be better off sticking with what you have and then trying to work with him as time goes on to swap times with you. Sweeten the pot by adding days if he'll agree.

 

[LdiJ]

I am familiar with some cases where there were differences in religion, and a judge ordered that religious holidays be given to the parent who was of that religion. However, admittedly that mostly has applied in cases where one parent was Christian, and the other was Jewish or Muslim, and both parents got their religious holidays.

Someone made a comment that why not let mom have the actual days, and dad have other days when the kids are off school. That's a valid argument, however, OP quoted dad as saying something about the "day" being a day off work when family can be together. Dad may only get Christmas Day off work...so that's a valid argument in dad's favor.

If mom can find other times when dad would have days off work, that would normally be mom's time, dad might be willing to AGREE that mom will have the holidays she wants.

 

[profmum]

I am familiar with some cases where there were differences in religion, and a judge ordered that religious holidays be given to the parent who was of that religion. However, admittedly that mostly has applied in cases where one parent was Christian, and the other was Jewish or Muslim, and both parents got their religious holidays.

Yes, we have that in our agreement, Xfiles and I are from different religions and I am allowed to have certain religious holidays akin to my religion if they fall on his days, as long as I give him make up parenting time for those days... but we alternate Xmas, Xmas eve, Easter every other year.

I also want to add Gottago, you are just starting the process of being a coparent and compromise, compromise is the only attitude to have with the x, regardless of whether he does it or not.. tit for tat is NEVER good for the kids and it is about them not what is "special for you".