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Landlord Move to Halt Illegal Sublets

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MIRAKALES

Senior Member
Landlords Move To Halt Illegal Sublets

LANDLORDS MOVE TO HALT ILLEGAL SUBLETS
New York Times, Published: November 17, 1985 (excerpts)

Tenants who illegally sublet their apartments do so for a number of reasons, including ignorance or indifference to the state law. The law can create a hardship for people who must be away longer than two years because of the difficulty in finding another affordable rental when they return.

Tenants must first obtain a landlord's permission to sublet, but he may not unreasonably withhold it. The law also provides triple damages, interest and attorney's fees to a subtenant who proves that he has been overcharged (previously he could only recover the actual rent overcharge.

The illegal subtenant is often the victim. Mr. Potter cited one recent case in which a Stuyvesant Town subtenant rented an apartment through a broker for about $200 above the proper rent and had no idea it was illegal. ''It's a real problem,'' he said. ''Here was a woman with a young baby and another on the way and she thought everything was on the up-and-up.''

Illegal subletting - which is also known, perhaps overdramatically, as the black market for rent-regulated apartments - is believed to be widespread because of the city's negligible vacancy rate, the high market rents for unregulated apartments and the relatively cheap rents of most of the 1.2 million regulated apartments. A recent state law, however, clarified the right of tenants to sublet and gave landlords powerful weapons against tenants who have turned their apartments into expense-free businesses.

In one recent case cited by the Rent Stabilization Association, a landlord trade group, a tenant at the Continental Towers at 301 East 79th Street obtained the landlord's approval to sublet a one-bedroom apartment for six months at a rent of $724.56 in 1982, but then illegally sublet it for several years at $1,500. In March, the tenant was evicted from the building, which is being converted to a condominium.

''We really don't know how many tenants are illegally subletting,'' said William S. Potter, who manages the 90-acre complex of unadorned 12-story brick buildings, parks and playgrounds, ''but we have fewer than a dozen legal sublets and everywhere we look, we come up with more illegals.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DE5DF1038F934A25752C1A963948260
 


Nanubird

Junior Member
I still don't understand how any of that relates to the thread you were arguing about this in. The OP wasn't making a profit off of the rent, she wasn't charging her tenant more than the total rent, only more than half of the rent ($1150 out of $1850). Plus, she never said she was subletting it illegally, that was just your assumption.

Her question was whether or not she was allowed to charge more than half the total rent for the apartment.
 

mwbarton

Member
In addition, the article is addressing rent-controlled apartments. The unregulated apartments are renting at market rate anyway so the tenant cannot make money by subletting.
 
This is a fine article, with a few exceptions.

1. Note the date of the article. It is from 1985! 23 years ago. Laws have changed greatly since then. (So has this computer system!)
2. This article only deals with subletting when it has been declared illegal, as in the LL has not expressed permission to do so. (The former post had said the subtenant had been in contact with the LL. Since the LL hadn't attempted to stop the sublet situation after he had been informed of it, he was showing tacit approval of the subleasing.)
3. This only deals with rent controlled areas. We don't know that the unit in that post was in a rent controlled area.
4. This only applies where the tenant is being overcharged for rent as stated in the lease. The previous post said the subtenant was paying less than the original rent amount on the original lease, so is not being overcharged.
 

MIRAKALES

Senior Member
This is a fine article, with a few exceptions.

1. Note the date of the article. It is from 1985! 23 years ago. Laws have changed greatly since then. (So has this computer system!)
The current case law regarding subletting stem from the original rent controlled case laws of the 1980s.
Just as current laws are based in principles from the 1800s.

2. This article only deals with subletting when it has been declared illegal, as in the LL has not expressed permission to do so. (The former post had said the subtenant had been in contact with the LL. Since the LL hadn't attempted to stop the sublet situation after he had been informed of it, he was showing tacit approval of the subleasing.)
Tenant in original post claim to have no written lease, therefore the LL could not have given expressed permission.
The LL was totally unaware of the sublet just as most LL's are.

3. This only deals with rent controlled areas. We don't know that the unit in that post was in a rent controlled area.
The additional case law provided included more current cases dated in the years 1997 and 2003.
These cases (delete by moderators) referenced the 1983 case law and were related to non-rent controlled premises. Case law is designed to set precedents and does not get updated, unless new cases dictate modification to existing case law.

4. This only applies where the tenant is being overcharged for rent as stated in the lease. The previous post said the subtenant was paying less than the original rent amount on the original lease, so is not being overcharged.
The additional 1997 and 2003 case law were established based upon "tenant profiteering" which was relevant to the former post.
The 1997 and 2003 case law modified the existing 1983 case law to include issues of "tenant profiteering" and "rent overcharges."

(Will post again without legal references. Citations may be reason moderators deleted.)
 

MIRAKALES

Senior Member
These are the current case law references (without citations):

A tenant who profiteers on a rent regulated apartment by substantially overcharging a subtenant or roommate may forfeit his rights under rent regulation. (App Term, 1st Dept, 1985), (2nd Dept, 2003)

The Rent Stabilization Law was enacted, in part, "in order to prevent exactions of unjust, unreasonable and oppressive rents and rental agreements and to forestall profiteering, speculation and other disruptive practices . . . " . . . The integrity of the rent stabilization scheme is obviously undermined if tenants, who themselves are the beneficiaries of regulated rentals, are free to sublease their apartments at market levels and thereby collect the profits which are denied the main landlord.

(These laws are the basis for current sublet and sublease references in standard lease agreements. Applications are made to non-rent controlled cases, as well.)
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
These are the current case law references (without citations):

A tenant who profiteers on a rent regulated apartment by substantially overcharging a subtenant or roommate may forfeit his rights under rent regulation. (App Term, 1st Dept, 1985), (2nd Dept, 2003)

The Rent Stabilization Law was enacted, in part, "in order to prevent exactions of unjust, unreasonable and oppressive rents and rental agreements and to forestall profiteering, speculation and other disruptive practices . . . " . . . The integrity of the rent stabilization scheme is obviously undermined if tenants, who themselves are the beneficiaries of regulated rentals, are free to sublease their apartments at market levels and thereby collect the profits which are denied the main landlord.

(These laws are the basis for current sublet and sublease references in standard lease agreements. Applications are made to non-rent controlled cases, as well.)

Mirakales - usually, when people are wrong, they admit it gracefully. You insist on posting information that is irrelevant to the topic...
 

MIRAKALES

Senior Member
Mirakales - usually, when people are wrong, they admit it gracefully. You insist on posting information that is irrelevant to the topic...
Don't worry about it!
When YOU want to post case law to support your position for sublets without LL permission or illegal sublets rent overcharges, it will be gladly considered. Until such time, don't concern yourself about anything else. Don't read the post. If you do not agree, do not respond. If you DO respond, respond with basis in case law reference. (6700 posts does not make one a reliable authority -- not sure what it makes.)
 
Last edited:

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Ok, mirk - one more time - read slowly to aid in your understanding.
You have no evidence that the LL has NOT given permission. You have PLENTY of evidence that the LL HAS given permission.

Tell you what - why don't you get in the last word and then close your thread. Makes it better for all of us ;)
 

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