Summer Possession Clarification

[thompsonl]

Ok. Well, she CAN do that, but she doesn't HAVE to do that.

Dad should write a proposed schedule & see which things she even balks at.

I don't get it - why can she refer to summer the day after school ends but doesn't have to if she doesn't want to? In that case the father can refer to summer not happening until he wants it to. The order clearly states summer begins the day after the last day of school. Therefore, the day after school ends the school year possesion gets put on a shelf and the summer possession arrangements begin. Which means that Thursdays are no longer her days for the summer and she has from the day after school lets out to until seven days before school starts to designate her extended summer possession. If she didn't - then while yes she gets her that Sat and Sun after school ends because it is her 1st weekend of the month, she would not get her Thursday at all or Friday until 6pm and would have to return her by 745 am monday. If she WANTS to designate her week starting Monday after school lets out then she can't take possession until Friday at 6pm the week school ends.

That is what he did and she balk. She didn't know any of the guidelines in the order and is now having to go back over them and read them.

 

[texastepmom]

if i was dad, i'd just tell mom that the extra time for the wedding is fine and she can start her extended visit July 3rd. I'd also request that he can get one weekend during that visitation time - heck, i'd even let mom pick which weekend.

as CP, you already get extra time, why not let mom have a couple more days than she is entitled to just to be a nice guy?

my dh is lucky, his ex is flexible with the summer visits... my sd has so many activities she would miss out on a lot otherwise... and her mom never exercises her extra summer weekends...

i understand wanting to get the visits all scheduled out asap, but if mom is asking for a couple of extra days here and there, why stress over it?

 

[thompsonl]

if i was dad, i'd just tell mom that the extra time for the wedding is fine and she can start her extended visit July 3rd. I'd also request that he can get one weekend during that visitation time - heck, i'd even let mom pick which weekend.

as CP, you already get extra time, why not let mom have a couple more days than she is entitled to just to be a nice guy?

my dh is lucky, his ex is flexible with the summer visits... my sd has so many activities she would miss out on a lot otherwise... and her mom never exercises her extra summer weekends...

i understand wanting to get the visits all scheduled out asap, but if mom is asking for a couple of extra days here and there, why stress over it?

All I can say is that he wants to solidfy things and have it on a calendar but if it doesn't go the way she wants it to she throws a fit and it starts this ridiculous argument. But we aren't going to spend the next 10 years giving in to her all the time. Anyway, the fact remains he wants to do it the way I stated. One week of her 30 days is this June and the remaining 23 days she wants to take in July. She thinks she gets the entire month of July and he told her she already is using one of her weeks - which is his right or he can refuse to let her have thier daughter until her actual possesion starts which would be 6pm Friday and he'd demand that she be returned by 745 monday.

They should agree 1 week was used for June and she gets her 23 days in July uninterrupted. End of story. I'm going to get clarification on the weekends that he gets to designate from his lawyer. Otherwise I think I got it. Thanks.

One more thing: he has no problem being flexible once they agree to what the order actually states. And his main concern is for the well being of his daughter and he feels she is under a bad influence with the mother, the judge agrees also which is why the order was changed to what it is now. They did have 50/50. I'm not going to get into it here but it was a very horrific nasty scene witnessed by the daughter and 3 years of emotional abuse.

 

[summerdawn]

All I can say is that he wants to solidfy things and have it on a calendar but if it doesn't go the way she wants it to she throws a fit and it starts this ridiculous argument. But we aren't going to spend the next 10 years giving in to her all the time. Anyway, the fact remains he wants to do it the way I stated. One week of her 30 days is this June and the remaining 23 days she wants to take in July. She thinks she gets the entire month of July and he told her she already is using one of her weeks - which is his right or he can refuse to let her have thier daughter until her actual possesion starts which would be 6pm Friday and he'd demand that she be returned by 745 monday.

They should agree 1 week was used for June and she gets her 23 days in July uninterrupted. End of story. I'm going to get clarification on the weekends that he gets to designate from his lawyer. Otherwise I think I got it. Thanks.

One more thing: he has no problem being flexible once they agree to what the order actually states. And his main concern is for the well being of his daughter and he feels she is under a bad influence with the mother, the judge agrees also which is why the order was changed to what it is now. They did have 50/50. I'm not going to get into it here but it was a very horrific nasty scene witnessed by the daughter and 3 years of emotional abuse.

Why didn't you include this in the initial post?

 

[thompsonl]

[/B]

Why didn't you include this in the initial post?

Because the rules state no bashing the parents and I didn't want to do that. I just wanted clarification on the guidelines of the order so we would know what was in our rights and what is in her rights so no one gets short changed so to speak.

But when everyone started asking if the father could just bend and making it sound like he's being unreasonable, then I felt it necessary to explain why he's not wanting to bend, and why he's concerned not being able to see her for 30 days or 29 days or 23 days in a row, etc. Besides did you see how much I wrote in the intital post. Was there room?

 

[summerdawn]

Because the rules state no bashing the parents and I didn't want to do that. I just wanted clarification on the guidelines of the order so we would know what was in our rights and what is in her rights so no one gets short changed so to speak.

But when everyone started asking if the father could just bend and making it sound like he's being unreasonable, then I felt it necessary to explain why he's not wanting to bend, and why he's concerned not being able to see her for 30 days or 29 days or 23 days in a row, etc. Besides did you see how much I wrote in the intital post. Was there room?

You should see the first post I made to this forum. It was so long I was surprised anyone read it. LOL.

Always include relevant info. If you don't it can look like you didn't get the answer you wanted so you had to pull something else out of the woodwork. It tends to make people suspicious...if the court found the mom "emotionally abusive" and it's not just you and your husband claiming she is, then it is not "bashing" her if you state that the court found her to be emotionally abusive. Just leave all of the emotional stuff out of it...like she said she did etc.

 

[thompsonl]

You should see the first post I made to this forum. It was so long I was surprised anyone read it. LOL.

Always include relevant info. If you don't it can look like you didn't get the answer you wanted so you had to pull something else out of the woodwork. It tends to make people suspicious...if the court found the mom "emotionally abusive" and it's not just you and your husband claiming she is, then it is not "bashing" her if you state that the court found her to be emotionally abusive. Just leave all of the emotional stuff out of it...like she said she did etc.

I get your point and will remember that in the future. Thanks. I did get clarification from my husbands attorney and I was right and TexasStepMom was correct in her interrpretation of the orders with regards to the father getting to designate weekends. This is what he told me.

If the father gives the mother notice by April 15th he gets to designate one weekend of her extended summer possession - which is her 30 days in July or the time periods she designates if she chooses to split it in two.

Additionally, anytime during the summer as long as it 14 days notice he gets to designate one weekend for himself that would be her normal 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekend. This thrills my husband to no end knowing that he won't have to go without seeing his daughter for an entire month in future years.

After a year of going through this I am sure next year will be easier because we will have all the facts. Thanks all for your advice and help.

 

[casa]

I don't get it - why can she refer to summer the day after school ends but doesn't have to if she doesn't want to?

Because the order doesn't state "one day ONLY", it states "no earlier than" which means, literally, no earlier than that day. If Mom wants to elect to start her time 3 days, 5 days, 2 wks, 1 mo. past that, she can. The CP has the Privilege here, let's not forget. It's Summer Vacation with the OTHER PARENT. (who despite whatever reasons she lost custody- is Not restricted or supervised in her visitations & therefore is capable of a visitation period per the Court's decision)



In that case the father can refer to summer not happening until he wants it to.

Not unless he can convince the School, the Districts, State & Feds that it would be a good idea to change the end of the school year.

The order clearly states summer begins the day after the last day of school.

It also clearly states (IMO) that the Period of Possession is to begin NO EARLIER than...not if she doesn't choose the next morning or a specific day, she forfeits.

Therefore, the day after school ends the school year possesion gets put on a shelf and the summer possession arrangements begin.

Not always, see above.

Which means that Thursdays are no longer her days for the summer and she has from the day after school lets out to until seven days before school starts to designate her extended summer possession.

That part is correct. She has FROM the day school lets out...UNTIL 7 days prior to school beginning. SO, basically, anywhere in between those 45 days or however many number the exact amount is currently.

If she didn't - then while yes she gets her that Sat and Sun after school ends because it is her 1st weekend of the month, she would not get her Thursday at all or Friday until 6pm and would have to return her by 745 am monday.

Correct, unless she properly elects to begin her period of possession on Monday or she & Dad agree to her beginning her period of possession on Monday.

If she WANTS to designate her week starting Monday after school lets out then she can't take possession until Friday at 6pm the week school ends.

Correct. As would be normal for any weekend visitation for her.

That is what he did and she balk. She didn't know any of the guidelines in the order and is now having to go back over them and read them.

It's good for her AND Dad to go over the guidelines thoroughly. And also, in the midst of it all, don't forget the priority is sharing the child. They only have one childhood.

 

[casa]

I get your point and will remember that in the future. Thanks. I did get clarification from my husbands attorney and I was right and TexasStepMom was correct in her interrpretation of the orders with regards to the father getting to designate weekends. This is what he told me.

If the father gives the mother notice by April 15th he gets to designate one weekend of her extended summer possession - which is her 30 days in July or the time periods she designates if she chooses to split it in two.

Then how does your attorney explain this:??

"If [father] gives [mother] written notice by April 15 of a year or gives [mother] 14 days written notice on or After April 16 of a year, [father] may designate one weekend beginning no earlier thatn the day after the child's school is dismissed for the summer vacation and ending no later than seven days before school resumes at the end of the summer vacation, during which an otherwise scheduled weekend or period of possession by [mother] shall not take place in that year, provided that the weekend so designated does not interfere with [mothers] period or periods of extended summer possess."

Additionally, anytime during the summer as long as it 14 days notice he gets to designate one weekend for himself that would be her normal 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekend. This thrills my husband to no end knowing that he won't have to go without seeing his daughter for an entire month in future years.

After a year of going through this I am sure next year will be easier because we will have all the facts. Thanks all for your advice and help.

Have you searched the forums for other TX parenting plans? Or other sites? Or your govt. sites? It'll help.

 

[LdiJ]

I'm trying to clarify 2 things. This year specifically with the fact that he's told her the week of her wedding is 7 days of her 23 days - does he get to designate a weekend from her 23 days - which I get now is no.

Then for future years if she chooses the 30 days in July - that means, besides on his birthday, he won't get to see his daughter for 29 days straight?

Under the standard TX plan, dad gets to have the child for one weekend during mom's 30 days of possession, as well as getting to choose one weekend of mom's during the rest of the summer (in order to have some extended time to vacation with the child as well).

However, since he would normally have to interrupt mom's extended visitation right at the start every year, I could see that being problematic. I could see a potential arguement that that should count as his weekend. I think it would be wiser to state that mom's time begins on July 3, and ends on August 2. It gets rid of alot of problems.

Also, telling mom she only gets 22 days because she normally wouldn't get dad's birthday, is silly.

 

[stealth2]

i disagree with stealth on the birthday... since dad's birthday is in july and mom by default gets the month of july, dad could potentially never have kiddo on his birthday, while mom would be able to have kiddo on her birthday... the birthday clause was put in for a reason, why should dad give up that time?

Disagree all you want - because I never said he should give up his birthday. What I SAID was that he doesn't get to short her a day. She STILL gets 30 days, not 29. That means she gets either June 30 or August 1. Not too difficult a concept, is it?

And OP - really, you need to butt out and let Dad sort out the schedule with Mom. It sounds as though you're causing more problems than not.

 

[thompsonl]

Casa you misunderstand me at every turn. I know that the mother can choose her days whenever she wants - my point was and is that she is stating that the actual summer - not her summer possession - but the actual summer doesn't start until the Monday after school is out that Wednesday. You are saying she can choose when Summer starts. No she can't and neither can the father. The school district, courts, city and state all choose when summer begins and that is obviously the day after the last day of school. I know she can start her summer possession whenever she wants. Since she is wanting to take the daughter out of town for a week starting the day after school ends, which is the fathers time of possession then in order to do so she is going to have to use 7 days of her extended summer possession. End of story. That's pretty black and white.

Additionally, I thought you people were lawyers giving advice. I didn't ask for anyones personal opinion. All I asked for was legal clarification. Casa you were totally wrong in your clarifications and I'd suggest you do more research before citing orders and attempting to clarify them in the future. I read another thread here where a stepmom was inquiring for her husband about the ex having sleepovers when the orders clearly state she cannot and she was asking for legal advice and all she got was bashing and rudeness and meanness. I felt really sorry for her. This is not how you all should be conducting yourselves. If you don't have true information, true clarification then just say sorry you can't help. Don't tell her to butt out, etc. She is just wanting advice or help and I don't think you people would be like that if she were to walk into your office and hand you a retainer. Nor are you people following the rules. Be respectful.

I know you are going to question what you were wrong about. For one, the clarification on the weekends the father gets to designate. I quoted word for word what the orders stated and yes the first paragraph is stating that he gets to designate one weekend during her extended time of possession if given notice by April 15th and the other paragraph states he also gets to designate one of her summer weekends that is her normal 1st, 3rd and 5th weekend that does not fall within the extended summer designation if he gives at least 14 days notice. Myself and TexasStepMom were the only ones I believe that understood that.

Additionally, someone cited the Father's Day rule which was incorrect and I quote "Father shall have the right of possession of the child each year, beginning at 6:00pm on the Friday preceding Father's Day and ending at 6:00pm on Father's Day." This is clearly not the quote that I think Casa quoted of a few hours and suggesting the father go over to the mothers and visit with the child for a few hours. If someone else browsing for advice came upon your quote Casa they would be totally misinformed and miss out on time with their children.

They want us to keep our posts on here for other people to use as research as well; however, if I knew how to delete I would delete all these posts as the clarifications were incorrrect and I would hate for someone to believe you people and get the wrong information. I highly recommended anyone looking for legal advice to contact your attorney as you won't get what you are looking for here except judgement, rudeness and misinformation.

Stealth: You asked when the order was finalized and said that it was important. Important for what reason? I know that you did not say for Dad to give up his birthday. I think you were pretty informative but I believe misinformed with the Father's Day comment as well. But I could be wrong. I'd have to go back and read it all again. Father's Day was never a concern I brought up. Casa again misunderstood when I clearly stated Father's Birthday and the fact that it was July 2nd. Again, someone reading this thread could read your statements in Father's Day and get the wrong impression.

I just implore you people to read the persons post and questions thouroughly and if they are asking for legal clarification - leave your personal opinions out. Be nice, respectful amd if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

 

[thompsonl]

Disagree all you want - because I never said he should give up his birthday. What I SAID was that he doesn't get to short her a day. She STILL gets 30 days, not 29. That means she gets either June 30 or August 1. Not too difficult a concept, is it?

And OP - really, you need to butt out and let Dad sort out the schedule with Mom. It sounds as though you're causing more problems than not.

And no Stealth you are incorrect. She gets from July 1st through July 31st with the exception of July 2. The order clearly states that. She doesn't get to make up the day and go til August 1st which means if she takes the 30 days in July as her extended summer vacation then she only gets 29 days; however, if she chooses to split it up in 2 designations during the summer she gets to split 30 days. You're making things up, where as I am reading the order and quoting it directly.

Once again you totally misunderstand. I'm not butting in a causing more problems. My husband asked me these specific questions I presented at the beginning to get answers/clarification for him. You people muddled the topic at hand by giving personal opinions and misinformation. Take your own advice and butt out if you can't contribute properly and positively to the thread started - which I started and deserve some respect.