First Right of Refusal Question

[wileybunch]

Since OP's not asserting Dad is habitually leaving their kids with someone else on "his time" and skirting away from his parenting time, it's a (hopefully - ha!) one-time thing while he goes on his honeymoon that the kids spend time with (perhaps) new wife's family (OP's only guessing on that). Why encourage OP to cause a big flap over it?

 

[Silverplum]

LdiJ, you've fallen off the turnip truck and bumped your head.

In other words, I strongly disagree with your take on this. And if you'd be willing to pay this poster's legal fees and hold her hand while she gets her butt eaten in court, I wouldn't mind...but you won't be there and your so-called "advice" is going to mess her up.

 

[LdiJ]

I was hoping you saw a typo and thought they DID have ROFR

Nowhere did it say she –or anyone else- say that random people like the children’s step grandparents might be taking them. Even so, he can send them to camp, why not Camp StepGrandpappies?

She doesn’t even know of their honeymoon plans. I’d say many second marriages with kids involved put honeymoon plans on hold. Extended? Maybe a week or so.

Didn’t you talk about your lovely summer visits with your grandparents that in no way could be called babysitting?

Yep, but I wasn't talking about summer vacations with my parent's new spouse's parents.

 

[LdiJ]

Since OP's not asserting Dad is habitually leaving their kids with someone else on "his time" and skirting away from his parenting time, it's a (hopefully - ha!) one-time thing while he goes on his honeymoon that the kids spend time with (perhaps) new wife's family (OP's only guessing on that). Why encourage OP to cause a big flap over it?

Because there is absolutely no reason why these children shouldn't be with their mother (or father if the roles were reversed) in a situation like this one.

 

[Bloopy]

Yep, but I wasn't talking about summer vacations with my parent's new spouse's parents.

Nor was she.

Even so, it would be an isolated occurence.

 

[LdiJ]

LdiJ, you've fallen off the turnip truck and bumped your head.

In other words, I strongly disagree with your take on this. And if you'd be willing to pay this poster's legal fees and hold her hand while she gets her butt eaten in court, I wouldn't mind...but you won't be there and your so-called "advice" is going to mess her up.

Complete and total BS Silver. I realize that everybody has said it so many times that they believe it, but no judge is going to ding a parent for keeping their children while the other parent is out of town or, in this case out of the country, unless that messes up a planned vacation with their real relatives.

 

[wileybunch]

Because there is absolutely no reason why these children shouldn't be with their mother (or father if the roles were reversed) in a situation like this one.

Sure, just get in there and try to dredge up as much contention surrounding the blending of two new families into one from the git-go. I like those family values. Like Bloopy said, it's *isolated* and OP doesn't even really have any facts on this at all, all assumptions.

 

[Bloopy]

Complete and total BS Silver. I realize that everybody has said it so many times that they believe it, but no judge is going to ding a parent for keeping their children while the other parent is out of town or, in this case out of the country, unless that messes up a planned vacation with their real relatives.

No one is syaing she'd lose custody or go to jail.

Are you suggesting she ignore the custody order because she'd likely get away with it?

I think I can boost a car and not get caught.

 

[Silverplum]

Complete and total BS Silver. I realize that everybody has said it so many times that they believe it, but no judge is going to ding a parent for keeping their children while the other parent is out of town or, in this case out of the country, unless that messes up a planned vacation with their real relatives.

We will continue to disagree, as usual.

Poster, be wary. Only one advisor tells you to do as you dang well please, and the rest tell you to mind your decree. It's up to you to decide.

 

[Calimom3]

OK... Color me now...

Please wait a moment. Most people here are very big on the idea that parents are allowed to "transfer" their parenting time to other people. That is absolutely not correct. Parents are allowed to share their parenting time with their extended families, but they can't go out of town for extended periods of time, and leave the kids with a babysitter rather than leaving the children with the other parent, whether ROFR is in effect or not. His new wife's parents would be babysitters. His parents, would not.

Believe me, if you kept the children with you rather than with someone like the new wife's parents, the judge would NOT be on dad's side if he tried to take it to court for contempt. In fact, the judge would wonder why dad didn't talk to you ahead of time and arrange a trade in the summer vacation schedule.

However, if he had planned for his parents to have that time with the kids, particularly if they didn't see them often, then you would be the bad guy.....even if you had an ROFR in place.

I have posted before about some of the issues that my EH and I have been having regarding and overstepping step and other issues.

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=395842

And here we are about 2 weeks from the event and he hasnt said anything about what the plans are that yes, I think affect me, because who is picking the kids up for his midweek and that weekend's visitation? I have no idea...so is someone going to show up at summer camp or my house to pick the kids up, that I have no idea who this person is??? I am sure these plans have been in place for well over 6 months.

I am heading back to a court room this summer, and I would hate to have a judge scream at me for asserting myself where I had absolutely no place to.

Would it better for me, in a legal framework, to ask if the kids can stay with me while he is away on his honeymoon vs. just keeping them?

 

[Bloopy]

Would it better for me, in a legal framework, to ask if the kids can stay with me while he is away on his honeymoon vs. just keeping them?

Yes Yes YES! Thank you for getting it.

Offer him a trade and he'll likely say yes.

 

[Calimom3]

Thank you for the debate...

We will continue to disagree, as usual.

Poster, be wary. Only one advisor tells you to do as you dang well please, and the rest tell you to mind your decree. It's up to you to decide.

I think at this juncture, it would be prudent for me to err on the side of caution.... and ask vs. demand.

 

[wileybunch]

Would it better for me, in a legal framework, to ask if the kids can stay with me while he is away on his honeymoon vs. just keeping them?

I already said as much, but will say it again. And, as Bloopy said, offer him a trade. Also, while their new stepgrandparents are "strangers" as people like to point out, they are also family and will be in their lives so if it's important to Dad that the kids have some time with these "strangers", you should try to accommodate it since you don't have to truly give anything up to let them have that. My "stranger" mother is a step-grandmother to my stepkids and while she doesn't get to see them a lot since the kids don't live full time with us, she's very kind and generous to these "stranger" children so I don't think that the term "stranger" should be taken to the extreme. When my DH's DD's stranger grandfather died end of Dec during DH's parenting time, he readily agreed to let DD go to be with family for the rest of his Christmas parenting time and she also missed his mid-week visit (and didn't ask for or expect tit for tat make up time --> I bet part of that phrase will be gollied out! LOL!).

I understand the whole reason for pointing out legal "strangers" but just don't take it to the point of assinine-ness, either, just to stand on principle.

 

[LdiJ]

No one is syaing she'd lose custody or go to jail.

Are you suggesting she ignore the custody order because she'd likely get away with it?

I think I can boost a car and not get caught.

No, I am not suggesting that she ignore the custody order, because keeping the children while dad is out of the country is NOT violating the custody order, no matter what people here have said.

Dad will NOT be in the country to exercise his parenting time. He will not be available to exercise his parenting time. His parenting time is NOT transferible to third parties. While it is acceptable and customary for dad to share his parenting time with the children's relatives, and leaving them with THEIR grandparents while dad is out of the country can be considered to be extended family visitation, tranferring his parenting time to an unrelated third party is NOT acceptable or customary. It might not even be acceptable to leave the children with their own grandparents if the grandparents live in the same community and see the children regularly.

It is completely improper to imply that a parent will be in trouble with the court, for keeping their children while the other parent is out of town or out of the country and is unable to exercise their parenting time.

This is not an ROFR situation. This is an unable to exercise visitation situation. There is no basis under the law, or in case law, that makes it acceptable to transfer a parent's parenting time to an unrelated third party, when the parent is totally unavailable to exercise it.

 

[Ohiogal]

No, I am not suggesting that she ignore the custody order, because keeping the children while dad is out of the country is NOT violating the custody order, no matter what people here have said.

Dad will NOT be in the country to exercise his parenting time. He will not be available to exercise his parenting time. His parenting time is NOT transferible to third parties. While it is acceptable and customary for dad to share his parenting time with the children's relatives, and leaving them with THEIR grandparents while dad is out of the country can be considered to be extended family visitation, tranferring his parenting time to an unrelated third party is NOT acceptable or customary. It might not even be acceptable to leave the children with their own grandparents if the grandparents live in the same community and see the children regularly.

It is completely improper to imply that a parent will be in trouble with the court, for keeping their children while the other parent is out of town or out of the country and is unable to exercise their parenting time.

This is not an ROFR situation. This is an unable to exercise visitation situation. There is no basis under the law, or in case law, that makes it acceptable to transfer a parent's parenting time to an unrelated third party, when the parent is totally unavailable to exercise it.

Based on what little facts we have, I side with LD. HOWEVER, OP really needs to have a talk with dad. Under no situation is she ever having to allow the children go with someone she does NOT know. However she doesn't even know what dad's plans are. If dad picks up the children for his time, he can leave them with whoever he wants. But if he is not there, then mom does NOT have to let them go with stepgrandma or paternal grandma or aunt Bessie.