Mold Present in my Apartment. How do I proceed?

[QM07]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

I signed a lease taking ownership of an apartment on July 30th, 2008. The lease signing was on a Friday, and I was not planning on moving my things in until the following Monday (July 2nd). Right after I signed the lease, the leasing agent presented me with a "walk-through" sheet to be filled out during move-in. I am familiar with the importance of indicating any defects with the unit at this time for future move-out disputes.

The leasing agent attempted to get me to sign a BLANK sheet on the spot in her office then and there since she knew we were not moving in until the 2nd and had already viewed the unit previously during our showing. She stated this was "common practice" and they could be audited and get in trouble for not having one on file. She said when I came back Monday I could fill out another and the original blank sheet I signed that day would "become my move-out sheet". I'm fairly intelligent an this seemed like an obvious trick. Given the fact this seemed absurd that I would be giving them a piece of paper with my signature indicating no imperfections with the unit I told her I'll do the walk through right now and come back since they probably won't be audited in the next thirty minutes.

This bothered me, but the lease was already signed so I did the walk through and noticed water stains above the bathtub in each bathroom of the apartment. I noted these down on the walk-through sheet. She assured me that she would have someone look for mold but hasn't to date. They have addressed all other issues except the leaks.

I purchased two Certified home-test kits and tested the HVAC unit directly, and the air itself in the apartment separately. The test resulted in 4 different types of mold present. The test identifies only the genus of the mold, and not the species. Two of the mold genuses have species that are toxic. Therefore, based on the results of these certified lab tests, there are potentially toxic mold spores present in my unit. Do I have legal basis to demand they have a Certified Inspector test the air and identify the species of mold and concentrations present?

I had already taken digital photographs of the leaks on move-in, as well as noted them on my signed walk -in sheet.

I am about to draft a letter requesting a mold inspector. I would also like to request a copy of the walk-through sheet I signed on move-in. If they give me a hard time or do not produce one, is there a law governing their providing a copy of this document I signed?

Thank you all for your time and insight in advance.

 

[Alaska landlord]

mold predates humans by millions of years. mold is everywhere, in your home, in your yard and everywhere you can think of. If you check the CDC website you will see that even with the toxic molds they have no criteria for how much mold is toxic.

If there are water marks above your tub it is probably due to the rubber phalange needing replacement. It cost under 5.00 dolllars and 10 minutes of the maintenance persons time. If your management company refuses to take action, then call code compliance for an inspection.

Those over the counter mold kits are not reliable in the sense that they will test positive just about anywhere. If you eliminate the water source and warmth, all you need is soap an wate to get rid of mold.

 

[johnd]

I purchased two Certified home-test kits and tested the HVAC unit directly, and the air itself in the apartment separately. The test resulted in 4 different types of mold present. The test identifies only the genus of the mold, and not the species. Two of the mold genuses have species that are toxic. Therefore, based on the results of these certified lab tests, there are potentially toxic mold spores present in my unit. Do I have legal basis to demand they have a Certified Inspector test the air and identify the species of mold and concentrations present?/QUOTE]


You come off as an expert with triple degrees in biology.

- Do you know how many types of mold there are in the world?
- Do you know how many types of toxic mold there are in the world?
- Do you realize those home tests qualify the existence of mold, but not the air quality (which is far more relevant...I do not need a test to know if some fungus is mold...but I would need a test to measure the air quality).
- Do you know how inundated the air must be with mold spores before it can have any impact on respiratory systems?
- Finally, and most importantly, as you seem bent on blaming this on the LL, do you have any proof that:
... - this mold was present upon your move in?
... - the LL had knowldege of mold prior to your move in, or has knowledge now.

 

[QM07]

mold predates humans by millions of years. mold is everywhere, in your home, in your yard and everywhere you can think of. If you check the CDC website you will see that even with the toxic molds they have no criteria for how much mold is toxic.

Yes, there is. When a Mold Inspector comes out they recommend particular courses of action based upon the species and concentrations of mold in the air. These recommendations range all the way up to leave all your possessions behind or you will die.

If there are water marks above your tub it is probably due to the rubber phalange needing replacement. It cost under 5.00 dolllars and 10 minutes of the maintenance persons time. If your management company refuses to take action, then call code compliance for an inspection.

I don't care what needs to be replaced, there is a water leak, which causes mold growth. Are you going to answer my questions? Probably not, since you're a landlord.

Those over the counter mold kits are not reliable in the sense that they will test positive just about anywhere. If you eliminate the water source and warmth, all you need is soap an wate to get rid of mold.

The mold petri dish was taped directly onto the HVAC vent and only received incoming air streams from the HVAC unit that regulates my apartment. Using soap and water is useless and if that is how you remediate mold in your units, I feel bad for your tenants and their health. Mold must be CUT OUT completely from the substrate. Once dried, the spores remain and become inactive. Once moisture reaches them again, mold will begin to regrow.

Thank you for not answering my question, and displaying the ignorance landlords have to the dangers of mold.

 

[QM07]

You come off as an expert with triple degrees in biology.

You come off as ignorant already. You also come off as a landlord with no real legal expertise. So far, based on my reading of this forum, and all the others, this entire website is a joke full of uninformed arrogance.

[

- Do you know how many types of mold there are in the world?

Most likely millions, however irrelevant to the issue at hand since I do know there are a specific and limited amount of Aspergillus species, 30% of which are harmful to human beings. Aspergillus is present in my apartment.

- Do you know how many types of toxic mold there are in the world?

A limited amount. However, some of the most toxic mold are the most common, including Stachbotrys and Aspergillus.

- Do you realize those home tests qualify the existence of mold, but not the air quality (which is far more relevant...I do not need a test to know if some fungus is mold...but I would need a test to measure the air quality).

This doesn't make sense, but you sure sound like someone who has had mold in the units they rent and gone through hell over it. Many times mold is not visible as it grows behind walls and in HVAC units. These tests indicate the present of mold where the eyes can not see, which is the purpose they serve. Given the confirmation of possible toxic mold existence, it is now necessary to have the air quality tested.

- Do you know how inundated the air must be with mold spores before it can have any impact on respiratory systems?

This depends on the species of mold, and is also an irrelevant question. You come off as someone who thinks they are a doctor, however, has no specific medical or legal knowledge. Not sure why you chose to respond to my post thus far.

- Finally, and most importantly, as you seem bent on blaming this on the LL, do you have any proof that:
... - this mold was present upon your move in?
... - the LL had knowldege of mold prior to your move in, or has knowledge now.

Yes, and you clearly did not read my post. I have timestamped photographs indicating water leaks on the move-in day. Water leaks are the number one cause of mold growth.
I also collected the mold samples 7 days after move-in. It can be concluded beyond a reasonable doubt the mold was present prior to move-in. Regardless of whether mold was present before or after move-in, it must be remediated by the landlord anyways as per state law. What is wrong with you? Quit wasting my time, and don't bother replying to this thread.

 

[johnd]

Once moisture reaches them again, mold will begin to regrow.

Soap and water will remove mold on nonporous surfaces, but will not hinder its regrowth. The preferred method is removal of infected porous areas, the application of chlorine...and then a disinfectant.

Thank you for not answering my question, and displaying the ignorance landlords have to the dangers of mold.

OUCH!!!

 

[johnd]

You come off as ignorant already. You also come off as a landlord with no real legal expertise. So far, based on my reading of this forum, and all the others, this entire website is a joke full of uninformed arrogance.

[

- Do you know how many types of mold there are in the world?

Most likely millions, however irrelevant to the issue at hand since I do know there are a specific and limited amount of Aspergillus species, 30% of which are harmful to human beings. Aspergillus is present in my apartment.

A limited amount. However, some of the most toxic mold are the most common, including Stachbotrys and Aspergillus.

This doesn't make sense, but you sure sound like someone who has had mold in the units they rent and gone through hell over it. Many times mold is not visible as it grows behind walls and in HVAC units. These tests indicate the present of mold where the eyes can not see, which is the purpose they serve. Given the confirmation of possible toxic mold existence, it is now necessary to have the air quality tested.

This depends on the species of mold, and is also an irrelevant question. You come off as someone who thinks they are a doctor, however, has no specific medical or legal knowledge. Not sure why you chose to respond to my post thus far.

Yes, and you clearly did not read my post. I have timestamped photographs indicating water leaks on the move-in day. Water leaks are the number one cause of mold growth.
I also collected the mold samples 7 days after move-in. It can be concluded beyond a reasonable doubt the mold was present prior to move-in. Regardless of whether mold was present before or after move-in, it must be remediated by the landlord anyways as per state law. What is wrong with you? Quit wasting my time, and don't bother replying to this thread.

The phrases for the day are (repeat after me):

ANGER management and effective communication. Your opinion matters not in a court of law...you are no expert on the subject matter, but present yourself as one.

Irrelevant? No. I have spoken at great lengths with biologists at the State Lab of Hygiene, and I personally know a mold remediator...so yes, that absolutely qualifies me over irked tenant with a homeowner mold test kit. Yeah, I know what I'm talking about...from personal and professional experience. The spore count matters if you wish to establish a health (respiratory) issue. You're obviously one of those people that doesn't like being told the truth, or when the truth doesn't coincide with what you want, you get irritated. Good luck in life (with or w/o this mold that may or may not be your fault...time stamp or not, you don't answer my question of whether the LL is informed of this matter), and good day.

 

[Alaska landlord]

Using soap and water is useless and if that is how you remediate mold in your units,

I will be sure to inform the EPA of your findings. I'm sure they will revise their cleanup procedures to conform your well researched documentation.

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/table2.html
Cleanup Methods
• Method 1: Wet vacuum (in the case of porous materials, some mold spores/fragments will remain in the material but will not grow if the material is completely dried). Steam cleaning may be an alternative for carpets and some upholstered furniture.
• Method 2: Damp-wipe surfaces with plain water or with water and detergent solution (except wood —use wood floor cleaner); scrub as needed.
• Method 3: High-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) vacuum after the material has been thoroughly dried. Dispose of the contents of the HEPA vacuum in well-sealed plastic bags.
• Method 4: Discard - remove water-damaged materials and seal in plastic bags while inside of containment, if present. Dispose of as normal waste. HEPA vacuum area after it is dried.

 

[Alaska landlord]

Yes, there is. When a Mold Inspector comes out they recommend particular courses of action based upon the species and concentrations of mold in the air. These recommendations range all the way up to leave all your possessions behind or you will die.
.

Exposure to damp and moldy environments may cause a variety of health effects, or none at all. Some people are sensitive to molds. For these people, molds can cause nasal stuffiness, throat irritation, coughing or wheezing, eye irritation, or, in some cases, skin irritation. People with mold allergies may have more severe reactions. Immune-compromised people and people with chronic lung illnesses, such as obstructive lung disease, may get serious infections in their lungs when they are exposed to mold. These people should stay away from areas that are likely to have mold, such as compost piles, cut grass, and wooded areas.
A link between other adverse health effects, such as acute idiopathic pulmonary hemorrhage among infants, memory loss, or lethargy, and molds, including the mold Stachybotrys chartarum (Stachybotrys atra), has not been proven. Further studies are needed to find out what causes acute idiopathic hemorrhage and other adverse health effects.
http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm

 

[QM07]

The phrases for the day are (repeat after me):

ANGER management and effective communication. Your opinion matters not in a court of law...you are no expert on the subject matter, but present yourself as one.

I'm in no manner upset or angry. I've effectively communicated to you the issue at hand, and you failed to read my original post in its entirety anyways. Another irrelevant comment.

Irrelevant? No. I have spoken at great lengths with biologists at the State Lab of Hygiene, and I personally know a mold remediator...so yes, that absolutely qualifies me over irked tenant with a homeowner mold test kit.

Qualifies you? We are looking for qualifications now? Quit wasting your time, even though you seem to have a lot of it based upon further research of your post history on this forum.
I am in no manner 'irked' and your name calling is ludicrous. Furthermore, I utilized a home test kit in order to establish if there even WAS mold present, prior to taking the next step of air-testing if indeed it was found. That is why I used a home mold test kit. Belittle if you will, but your comments are off-base (as they are with all of the posts I've read from you thus far on this website)

(with or w/o this mold that may or may not be your fault...time stamp or not, you don't answer my question of whether the LL is informed of this matter), and good day.

It was answered in my original post, when I said I plan on drafting a letter today (the day I received my home-test results, informing them of the issue and requesting a Certified Inspector test the air... again, you did not read my post, and make yourself look silly with your responses.

 

[QM07]

A link between other adverse health effects, such as acute idiopathic pulmonary hemorrhage among infants, memory loss, or lethargy, and molds, including the mold Stachybotrys chartarum (Stachybotrys atra), has not been proven. Further studies are needed to find out what causes acute idiopathic hemorrhage and other adverse health effects.
http://www.cdc.gov/mold/dampness_facts.htm

Its been proven, in court and out of court. People have been awarded multi-million dollar settlements based upon failure to clean stachybotrys out of homes. I suggest you research case law, because based on your attitude towards mold, you will find yourself at the business end of a lawsuit one day. Have a good one.

By the way, the little cut and paste you made prior to what I just quoted you on is about as elementary as it gets regarding mold in GENERAL, and does not address the specifics and the fact that certain molds are TOXIC (produce mycotoxins) and are KNOWN HUMAN PATHOGENS.

Go do some research, and keep soap and watering your tenants to death until one of them gets sick and owns your life.

 

[Alaska landlord]

It was answered in my original post, when I said I plan on drafting a letter today (the day I received my home-test results, informing them of the issue and requesting a Certified Inspector test the air... again, you did not read my post, and make yourself look silly with your responses.

A total waste of time and resources. LL needs to identify cause of leak, fix the problem and wait for ceiling to dry. He should then follow up with simple cleaning with soap and water and again allow to dry (bleach optional). You in turn need to start using your overhead fan vent and remove humidity from bathroom after showering as you are contributing to the problem.

REQUEST DENIED!!! for further mold inspection.

 

[johnd]

It was answered in my original post, when I said I plan on drafting a letter today (the day I received my home-test results, informing them of the issue and requesting a Certified Inspector test the air... again, you did not read my post, and make yourself look silly with your responses.

So you've taken this all on yourself...and have yet to notify the LL? All this effort, time, gas money, and money on tests, and your lengthy diatribes...and you don't know enough to first call the LL? Sheeesh. No wonder there are so many LL/tenant disputes...and so many that the LLs win.

 

[johnd]

A total waste of time and resources. LL needs to identify cause of leak, fix the problem and wait for ceiling to dry. He should then follow up with simple cleaning with soap and water and again allow to dry (bleach optional). You in turn need to start using your overhead fan vent and remove humidity from bathroom after showering as you are contributing to the problem.

REQUEST DENIED!!! for further mold inspection.

Case closed!!!

Good post AL. Succint. I just wonder if the LL will have an action against the op for neglect and aggravation. He's tested and tested, videotaped and photograhed...all the while neglectfully allowing the spores to reduplicate...w/o ever informing the LL. I'd paint his lil' red wagon (and in short order) were he my tenant.

 

[QM07]

I will be sure to inform the EPA of your findings. I'm sure they will revise their cleanup procedures to conform your well researched documentation.

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/table2.html
Cleanup Methods
• Method 1: Wet vacuum (in the case of porous materials, some mold spores/fragments will remain in the material but will not grow if the material is completely dried). Steam cleaning may be an alternative for carpets and some upholstered furniture.
• Method 2: Damp-wipe surfaces with plain water or with water and detergent solution (except wood —use wood floor cleaner); scrub as needed.
• Method 3: High-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) vacuum after the material has been thoroughly dried. Dispose of the contents of the HEPA vacuum in well-sealed plastic bags.
• Method 4: Discard - remove water-damaged materials and seal in plastic bags while inside of containment, if present. Dispose of as normal waste. HEPA vacuum area after it is dried.

So where's the soap and water you moron? Regardless, my original post stated the HVAC unit had mold in it. Telling me mold can be cleaned with soap and water does not apply to my original post. Plus, you've spent 100% of this thread arguing with me about using soap and water on mold. If you weren't a waste of my time I'd provide you with a variety of "well-researched" documentation indicating you are clueless.

I'm not sure what you were trying to prove with your little list there, none of them say take some soap an water and scrub. The mold will re-grow forever based upon not only soap and water, but also the above mentioned methods as soon as moisture hits them again. Carpets need to be ripped up. Landlords like yourself don't want to spend money to keep their tenants safe and prefer a QUICK FIX. It's okay, you're a slum lord. I get it.