Is there a way to track marital assets that have been buried and moved?

[deedee584]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ca
Since my seperation(not legally) 4 years ago my spouse has been moving everything to try and claim drop in income. Even as far as going and taking cash for jobs.He owns his own business as a contractor, and has told me in past he has had to make 10,000 a month just to cover his expenses. His tythe to church came to my address showing he paid 10% of his income that year 26,000 to the church, Does any of this work to prove his real income? Even if he is claiming this in preperation for the settlement conferance next month saying he has only made 21,000 for the whole year(I know this is a lie) how can I proove different?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ca
Since my seperation(not legally) 4 years ago my spouse has been moving everything to try and claim drop in income. Even as far as going and taking cash for jobs.He owns his own business as a contractor, and has told me in past he has had to make 10,000 a month just to cover his expenses. His tythe to church came to my address showing he paid 10% of his income that year 26,000 to the church, Does any of this work to prove his real income? Even if he is claiming this in preperation for the settlement conferance next month saying he has only made 21,000 for the whole year(I know this is a lie) how can I proove different?

That tithing statement would certainly help convince a judge that something was amiss.

 

[nextwife]

The PROBLEM now is that a great many of those who earned in a living in any housing related industry, such as in construction, are not earning anywhere near what they did a year ago due to the market bust. So even if you DO prove he then earned X amount, he may be able to reasonably argue drop of income for this year.

 

[deedee584]

hE HAS BEEN DOING THINGS LIKE MAKING THE CLIENTS GET THE PERMITS OR DOING THEM W/O.
Can I legally get banks deposits and records ? And will his past records be enough proof of how much he makes?

 

[seniorjudge]

You can get practically anything with a subpoena that is issued in your lawsuit.

 

[MFinancier]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ca
Since my seperation(not legally) 4 years ago my spouse has been moving everything to try and claim drop in income. Even as far as going and taking cash for jobs.He owns his own business as a contractor, and has told me in past he has had to make 10,000 a month just to cover his expenses. His tythe to church came to my address showing he paid 10% of his income that year 26,000 to the church, Does any of this work to prove his real income? Even if he is claiming this in preperation for the settlement conferance next month saying he has only made 21,000 for the whole year(I know this is a lie) how can I proove different?

All income and debt after your separation is separate property anyways...unless it is related to the community. If you have children or had a marriage of duration and are trying to prove income for support purposes...thats different...get yourself a good forensic accountant and or business appraiser. Otherwise...none of this really matters...and you should focus on your own income not his! And no....CA is not the place to be a building contractor right now!

 

[LdiJ]

All income and debt after your separation is separate property anyways...unless it is related to the community. If you have children or had a marriage of duration and are trying to prove income for support purposes...thats different...get yourself a good forensic accountant and or business appraiser. Otherwise...none of this really matters...and you should focus on your own income not his! And no....CA is not the place to be a building contractor right now!

Their separation was NOT a legal one. Therefore no, their income and debt is not separate income and debt.

Odds are that if he tithed 26k to his church in 2007 (assuming that's the year she has the statement from) then odds are that he has not been dramatically effected by the housing bust.

 

[MFinancier]

Their separation was NOT a legal one. Therefore no, their income and debt is not separate income and debt.

Better check on that Ldij. If they separated physically with the intent to divorce...everything is treated separately as long as it isn't related to the community. No paper work has to be filed to be considered separated either. They may argue over the actual separation date...but I'm assuming since they haven't been living together for four years...there's definitely intent here

 

[LdiJ]

Their separation was NOT a legal one. Therefore no, their income and debt is not separate income and debt.

Better check on that Ldij. If they separated physically with the intent to divorce...everything is treated separately as long as it isn't related to the community. No paper work has to be filed to be considered separated either. They may argue over the actual separation date...but I'm assuming since they haven't been living together for four years...there's definitely intent here

This thread is CA, the premier community property state in the nation....NOT IL. Do NOT assume that IL rules apply to CA.

It has been established here repeatedly, that if there is no legal separation in CA, that the community continues.

 

[mistoffolees]

Can I legally get banks deposits and records ? And will his past records be enough proof of how much he makes?

The court will be mostly interested in current earnings. If he made a zillion dollars last year but his business fell off in 2008, last year's earnings will not be particularly helpful.

HOWEVER, as part of the routine process, he will be asked to provide his financial information, including tax returns (if this isn't the default in your state, your attorney can request it). If he shows an unrealistically low income in 2007 and you can show that he tithed $27 K, then you would have grounds to ask the court to subpoena all of his records.

If he has been working for cash, then his business records may or may not show what you need. You'll need to have a look at his bank records to show that his deposits are much greater than his claimed income. A forensic accountant will be worth almost whatever you pay him/her. If your stbx is committing fraud and the accountant can prove it, you'll ask the judge to have your stbx pay all the legal and accounting fees that you spent because of his fraud.

One last thought. If you have the financial records from when you were together, it would be useful to show that he has consistently tithed 10%. If that is the case, it will greatly strengthen the argument that his $27 K tithe implies a much higher income. If his tithe percentage has varied all over the map, he could claim that he didn't make much, but he tithed a huge percentage because others are worse off then him (or any other excuse). I doubt if it would keep him from having his records subpoena'd, but you never know.

 

[Ohiogal]

Their separation was NOT a legal one. Therefore no, their income and debt is not separate income and debt.

Better check on that Ldij. If they separated physically with the intent to divorce...everything is treated separately as long as it isn't related to the community. No paper work has to be filed to be considered separated either. They may argue over the actual separation date...but I'm assuming since they haven't been living together for four years...there's definitely intent here

You need to check on that. Because that is not true.

 

[MFinancier]

This thread is CA, the premier community property state in the nation....NOT IL. Do NOT assume that IL rules apply to CA.

It has been established here repeatedly, that if there is no legal separation in CA, that the community continues.

LdiJ...thanks...I understand this is CA...and I hope there is no confusion here concerning "Legal" separation and separation pending the intentions to divorce. Even if there was (correct me if I am wrong) it isn't necessary to have a "legal" separation agreement to establish a cutoff date for the community...all you have to do is establish intent to end the marriage. I have heard of people living in the same house in CA who have established intent to divorce and are thus considered separated for purposes of a cutoff date. True...the accumulated community itself continues and including any associated passive gain or loss is subsequently divided at final settlement...but once a cutoff date is established by intent to divorce...each individuals income and debt is separate unless related to the community. Op herself stated she has been separated for four years....how could anyone argue there is no intent here and thus no cutoff for the community income and debt? In which case...I'm not sure what your idea of a legal separation is?

 

[MFinancier]

You need to check on that. Because that is not true.

Hey Gal...whats cookin? What am I missing here? Does this help?

CALIFORNIA: In re Marriage of Hardin, ___ Cal. App. 4th ___, 45 Cal. Rptr. 2d 308 (1995).
To identify the date of separation, the parties' subjective intents must be objectively determined from all of the evidence reflecting their words and actions during the disputed time period to ascertain when the rift in their relationship was final.

California uses the date of separation as the crucial date for determining the spouses' property interests: property acquired by a spouse after the date of separation is classified as that spouse's separate property, whereas property acquired before the date of separation is community property. The discussion in In re Marriage of Hardin may be of interest to lawyers in equitable distribution states that likewise use the date of separation as the cutoff date for marital property. The court endorsed a subjective test that depends upon an assessment of all relevant evidence rather than only one or two factors being considered dispositive.


Sounds like OP's relationship was cooked awhile ago....

DOS=CUTOFF DATE for separate income and debt (with some exceptions)! Right?

 

[MFinancier]

One other thing since I got involved (and I didn't mean to highjack!)...If the OP gets any other mail addressed to her STBX and opens it...like it appears she already has....she may want to read this.


Sec. 1702. - Obstruction of correspondence

Whoever takes any letter, postal card, or package out of any post office or any authorized depository for mail matter, or from any letter or mail carrier, or which has been in any post office or authorized depository, or in the custody of any letter or mail carrier, before it has been delivered to the person to whom it was directed, with design to obstruct the correspondence, or to pry into the business or secrets of another, or opens, secretes, embezzles, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both

 

[deedee584]

The letter was addressed to me and I know those rules since I worked for the PO 27 years,In the 4 years we have been to numerous counselors and pastors. Most attempts for reconcile was per request of my husband mostly because I figured if he did not initiate it he would not stay in it either. I was always willing as long as he stayed in counsel.But after 4 years and a final round with new counselors I am giving up the hope of anything different. So if I show repeated attempts and being together thru out the 4 years is this considered NOT seperated? I could not move under the same roof due to Domestic Violence issues....That is why counsel was so vital.Thanks