Dilemma....

[EarthMother01]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Wisconsin.

This will be a bit long winded, but I want to present all the facts in as much of a nutshell as I can.

Innitial divorce decree Dec 1996: joint legal custody/50-50 placement custody. 2 children older boy younger girl. 12.5% CS was ordered to each of us. Final visit schedule was 3 months on 3 off with standard 1 evening and rotating weekend placement.

Several attempts by the ex to gain sole custody including a bogus child abuse investigation against me that turned was deemed "retaliatory" by the investigator.

March 1999: After a very protracted year long battle and 2 day court trial, original judgement upheld, the COC was denyed.

Dec 2001: I had been liad off in May, exausted my UE and savings by October, After 9-11 the job market went totally dry. Had to move out of state to find work to satisfy the seek work order for CS. Had a friend I could live with, but BIOC was to remain in school. Stipiulated to a Temp Stipulation and order for Temp physical placement with father. All child support ceased due to his refusal to assist with fascilitating visitation.

March 2003: Secured work back in the area and moved back. Requested of the ex to re-stipulate to reinstate the order from 1999. Refusal. Over the following 3 years repeated requests by myself, and the children to reinstate had been futile. ! evening and rotating weekends had resumed but he refused to give up primary placement. Summer vacation started as only the weeks they were not in summer school.

2006: I insisted that I have the children the entire summers. My location to their school for summer school is in walking distance. Also at this time the two began writing for a publication printed by my place of employment and an I insisted that I have that meeting night added to the mid week as to fascilitate their attendance at these meetings.

I took the high-road to not start a litigative nightmare for the children again. His refusal to stipulate was enough reason to conject that it would be another huge battle and the kids didn't need that once again.

Presently: Son will be 18y/o 3 days after the start of his senior year of HS and plans to move home with me full time. Statute is CS is paid until HS graduation.

The Dilemma..Daughter who is 16 has, over the the last 5 years begged and pleaded to move home as well. Their fathers actions over these 5 years has allienated them from him, as he refuses to even listen to their opinions, and punishes them for stating their thoughts with grounding, denyal of privleges Etc.

I will need to file a motion to reinstate CS for my son when he comes home at age 18. I also feel as long as I'm filing, that I'll add that the 1999 order be reinstated as well, siting that trying to work this out with him over this time has been unsuccessful, and that it is in our daughters best interest and desire that she spend the previously court appointed parenting time with me.

I've been asked why I've eaited so long to try to reinstate this. I can answer this easy. 1) I didn't feel more litigation was in the childrens best interest. 2) They were approaching the age when they will be seeing the truth of matters for themselves and forming their own opinions. 3) Someone had to be the bigger person and stop the "Litigation merry-go-round"

So.. My question is this. Due to the number of years between the time I returned from out of state, the fact that the son will be moving home, and the desires of the 16 year old daughter to get more time with me....Can I do this on my own since I'm simply asking for the reinstatement of a previous order since the conditions that the Temp order was entered no longer exist, as well as for child support for the 18 year old since he's still in HS? He can make the decision to come live with me at 18.

 

[Farfalla]

If you are not familiar with how the courts work and what needs to be done, you will need an attorney. Sounds like are you not all that familar.

 

[EarthMother01]

If you are not familiar with how the courts work and what needs to be done, you will need an attorney. Sounds like are you not all that familar.

Oh I'm very familiar with the court process in so far as what needs to be filed and when. I'm familiar with the fact that things that "shouldn't" be issues Statute wise, are many times drug threw the mud anyway.

What I'm trying to fathom this evening is if there is any insite to the issues presented and what other factors I may need to be prepared for, when I file this.

 

[CJane]

Was this 'stipulated order' filed with the courts?

Did you FILE to have the other order reinstated or just ask Dad?

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

What is the change in circumstance for the child (daughter)? Obviously, son can move back when he is 18 yo.

At 16 yo, she can voice an opinion, but that alone is not enough unless dad gives up.

 

[EarthMother01]

Was this 'stipulated order' filed with the courts?

Did you FILE to have the other order reinstated or just ask Dad?

I asked, begged pleaded with Dad, to Stipulate a return to the previous order. I was trying to avoid another protracted year + long litigation.

 

[CJane]

I asked, begged pleaded with Dad, to Stipulate a return to the previous order. I was trying to avoid another protracted year + long litigation.

You didn't answer my question.

Was this 'stipulated' agreement an ORDER FILED WITH THE COURT, or was it simply something you and Dad agreed about and wrote up?

And if it WAS an ORDER FILED WITH THE COURT, did you FILE to have it revoked?

I don't want to know the WHY, I want to know the WHAT.

 

[EarthMother01]

What is the change in circumstance for the child (daughter)? Obviously, son can move back when he is 18 yo.

At 16 yo, she can voice an opinion, but that alone is not enough unless dad gives up.

The COC is that I no longer live out of state (the reason for the temp order in the first place), and that all attempts to reason and negotiate a stipulation to return to the 1999 order have failed.

There is no compelling reason that the order CANNOT be reinstated.

 

[EarthMother01]

You didn't answer my question.

Was this 'stipulated' agreement an ORDER FILED WITH THE COURT, or was it simply something you and Dad agreed about and wrote up?

And if it WAS an ORDER FILED WITH THE COURT, did you FILE to have it revoked?

I don't want to know the WHY, I want to know the WHAT.

It was filed with the court, because it needed to be, to end the CS obligation of the previous order. It was filed as a "Temporary Stipulation and Order".

No I have not filed to have it revolked, as i mentioned, I did not want to place the children back in the middle of a litigation phase. Thats been done to death by the ex too many times.

 

[CJane]

It was filed with the court, because it needed to be, to end the CS obligation of the previous order. It was filed as a "Temporary Stipulation and Order".

No I have not filed to have it revolked, as i mentioned, I did not want to place the children back in the middle of a litigation phase. Thats been done to death by the ex too many times.

The COC of you moving back to the area isn't really valid since it happened quite some time ago.

And saying that there's no reason NOT to change the stipulation BACK isn't really true either. Status quo is an excellent reason to leave it as is.

Frankly, the downside of leaving things as they were for so long is that your daughter is now 16 and while that means her wishes are going to have SOME sway ... she's likely to age out of the order so soon, the judge may not see any point in changing anything.

 

[EarthMother01]

The COC of you moving back to the area isn't really valid since it happened quite some time ago.

And saying that there's no reason NOT to change the stipulation BACK isn't really true either. Status quo is an excellent reason to leave it as is.

Frankly, the downside of leaving things as they were for so long is that your daughter is now 16 and while that means her wishes are going to have SOME sway ... she's likely to age out of the order so soon, the judge may not see any point in changing anything.

I'm sorry I havne't been back sooner, I'm salary and I'm covering two sales territories while a new hire is getting trained in, and I'm doing paperwork at night from home. Being and exempt employee stinks at times.

Anyway, from what I'm gathering, trying to be reasonable, trying to work things out without litigation, can be frowned upon by the courts? Color me stupid, but in the county I'm in, the court has requested time and again that the ex and I try to work things out. I tried and failed. Litigation is the only option at this point.

The daughters proximity to her school is within walking distance from me. She can partisipate in swimming and other school activities without worry of how to get home if either the ex or I are required to work late. (He lives way on the other side of town).

I have fascilitated their writing for a student newspaper printed by the company I work for I have opened doors for then achidemically that he has never attempted to.

He's done his best to hold them back from growing as individuals. His idea of culture is to work in the Pits on his race car. Between he and his GF they have taken all internet access away from them, not because they abused it, but because they are are so inept they can't figure out how to protect their system from viruses and spyware. Certian classes of theirs require them to have online access to question and answer boards Etc.

Yes the times are different from when he and I were in school. There is a high emphasis on technology these days.

His personal fears, inhibit them from doing their best. They both are puling decent grades, but they could be better if they didn't have to loose the points for non-partisipation in these required class activities.

She needs, for the sake of her education, to be here with me. She is in a number of AP classes that she could excell in if she had the access to the technology she needs to truely excell.

He makes at leat 3 times more than I do, but he puts his money in to his race car, rather than invest into either of their futures. I can't afford college, hell I'm still paying off my own college loans. (thank the powers that be that there is no college fees in the original divorce order).

I guess what I'm saying is that I can't grasp the mixed messages I've been sent by my local court, if all I have heard here is the norm.

Why try to follow the direction of the court, if comes back to bit you in the arse?

 

[ariastar]

If the children are willing to go through a court battle (it was hell when they were younger and had no idea or sway), then what reason is there to not file? The judge may keep the order as-is, or may give weight to the fact that your son will be returning to you as soon as he's 18 and your daughter wants to be with you, her mother, and feels the environment in your home is more supportive and conducive to the activities she wishes to do at school. Your daughter's reasons aren't because you let her get away with more, but because her father isn't supportive of the activities she wants to do, he isn't involved in her schooling, and she doesn't have access to what she needs to do as well as she could be doing in her AP classes. These are compelling reasons. A judge doesn't have to listen to her, but he might. It's worth a shot. Worst case is you get a no.

 

[EarthMother01]

If the children are willing to go through a court battle (it was hell when they were younger and had no idea or sway), then what reason is there to not file? The judge may keep the order as-is, or may give weight to the fact that your son will be returning to you as soon as he's 18 and your daughter wants to be with you, her mother, and feels the environment in your home is more supportive and conducive to the activities she wishes to do at school. Your daughter's reasons aren't because you let her get away with more, but because her father isn't supportive of the activities she wants to do, he isn't involved in her schooling, and she doesn't have access to what she needs to do as well as she could be doing in her AP classes. These are compelling reasons. A judge doesn't have to listen to her, but he might. It's worth a shot. Worst case is you get a no.

Finally, some bright star in the midsts of darkness. A glimer of hope. It's been a long 14years of feeling/experiencing, his higher earning ability has been the the reason things have escalated this point. He's not the brightest bulb on the string, and I feel he's been taken advantage of by his attorneys. He's lost all his cases when he's taken me to court. Almost as if ghe attorney's have seen him as "low hanging fruit". Get his dollars even if it's a lost cause.

I hate to paint lawers with the same brush strokes, because I know I've had bad and good in the past.

But so many are looking at their bottom lines rather than the case at hand. "What will this case net me? Win or loose?"

Thanks for the support.

 

[ariastar]

Finally, some bright star in the midsts of darkness. A glimer of hope. It's been a long 14years of feeling/experiencing, his higher earning ability has been the the reason things have escalated this point. He's not the brightest bulb on the string, and I feel he's been taken advantage of by his attorneys. He's lost all his cases when he's taken me to court. Almost as if ghe attorney's have seen him as "low hanging fruit". Get his dollars even if it's a lost cause.

I hate to paint lawers with the same brush strokes, because I know I've had bad and good in the past.

But so many are looking at their bottom lines rather than the case at hand. "What will this case net me? Win or loose?"

Thanks for the support.

Remember though that there is NO guarantee the judge will even let her talk, but if she does get to speak, a well-thought-out response is far more likely to be given a lot of weight than "Mom will let me stay out all night." If she does get to live with you and her brother, don't bother trying to get CS from Dad. That'll likely only ignite anger and an attempt to get the children, or at least the girl, back into his custody, and that will be hell for her. CS for a year and a half or so won't be worth the headache your daughter would go through.

But good luck. it sounds like she has some very valid reasons for wanting to move aside from just liking/disliking one parent more (on that note, do NOT talk down about their dad to them still).