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dadcobf

Junior Member
Another question

Here's another question for you -

Would it be best to wait for the court to order mom to return my son, or should I just go pick him up at school (in AZ) and bring him home? His first day of school is tomorrow, and the school is holding a spot for him, but I'd like to get him back into school here asap.

I don't mind going to get him at all, I'm just worried I'd look as bad as mom if I did something like that.

Thoughts?
 


2Mistakes

Senior Member
Here's another question for you -

Would it be best to wait for the court to order mom to return my son, or should I just go pick him up at school (in AZ) and bring him home? His first day of school is tomorrow, and the school is holding a spot for him, but I'd like to get him back into school here asap.

I don't mind going to get him at all, I'm just worried I'd look as bad as mom if I did something like that.

Thoughts?
My initial thought is that since there are now Petitions filed with the court, you need to just wait and let it go through the court process.

But wait and see what the seniors have to say. I've been known to be wrong before. :D
 

dadcobf

Junior Member
Not sure if this forum likes to hear updates or not, so if I should quit posting just say so.

Attorney is going to see if he can get some fires going - calling the judge's assistant to see why we haven't received a court date yet, and to see if we can get it on the calendar quickly.
 

dadcobf

Junior Member
Yay - got the court date today for Sept 16th. That's for my request that my son be returned to me. Maybe not 'instant' but I'll take what I can get.
 

dadcobf

Junior Member
Hi again all - my attorney is now working on the response to the petition for modification. I wanted to see if any of these reasons in her petition are significant enough to warrant a change of custody. It seem like it is pretty tough to change custody based on reading other posts. She filed this document pro se.

Her reasons why the order should be changed are:
1) Father relocated the children to California in July 2004 in violation of the court order and ARS 25-408 (B)(1)(2)(C)(D)
- I'm not terribly worried about this one, since that same statute allows 30 days to contest the relocation. I think 4 years later is too late, as do some of the posters in this thread.

2) Before end of 2007 school year, father relocated to Colorado with son without notice to mother.
- This is incorrect. Notice was given, and my son was with her during Christmas break and told her we would be moving. Besides, I think once the status quo is established outside of the state, it doesn't matter as much regarding future relocations - but please correct me if I'm wrong. Note: I did NOT provide WRITTEN notice.

3) Due to the young age of the children it has become apparent the best interests and welfare of the children are not being served with the children being separated. The children miss each other terribly;
- Can you use words like terribly in a court document? Anyway - I would prefer to have both children come and live with me. Son has been with me for 4 years, daughter has been with me for 2 of the last 4. And probably more importantly - the CO still says I have primary custody of BOTH CHILDREN.

4) Minor child, (son), does not and will not have adult supervision after school hours as step-mother and father work;
- Not true, step-mother is home at 12pm most days, 3pm on 1 day a week. I'm home at 5pm, and we also have 15 yrs ld and 14 yrs step-sisters that are home around 3-4pm.
5) Biological mother (that's what she wrote, not me!) has recently graduated from a massage school and will be able to arrange work schedule to be home with children after school.
- Okay, can't argue with that, but not sure if it is significant enough to warrant change of custody.

6) Both children are enrolled in school in Arizona. It would be a disruption to remove son out of school and place him in another school in Colorado and he would have to adjust to new curriculum and testing routine. The constant moving routine of the father is not in the best interest of the child. Child feels that this decision takes all of his control away. It is hard for him to cope with all these moves. His father has moved three times since divorce and I feel that this interruption will affect child for the rest of his life, if some stability in his home life does not change.
- First off - I have only moved once since divorce was finalized. Second - he was enrolled by mom against the CO! Is this a reasonable item? To me is seems almost silly as she is saying I move too much, so what she did to fix that was enroll him in another school! Hopefully at my Sept 16th hearing, the judge will order son returned to me and this point will not be a problem. But again, if I should be worried about this one, please let me know.

7) Child has asthma as does mother. Mother is more capable of handling any health issues should they arise.
- I'm pretty sure this is useless. First - son hasn't shown symptoms of asthma for two years. Second, mother has severe asthma and has landed in the hospital multiple days before. Is she trying to say I'm not capable of taking my son to the doctor?
8) This is not an attempt on part of mother to force child support payment for the children; that her sole interest is for the children to stay together in Arizona, with the mother where they will be nutured and care for in a loving environment.
- Okay, not sure how this affects custody decision.

There you go - any comments would be appreciated!
 
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Isis1

Senior Member
fyi, i myself love updates. you get a better eye of the case when you see the end result. and i'm going to go out on a limb here and say seniors LOVE it when you update on your same thread. so good job there.

from what you posted, i wouldn't be too worried, but definitely let us know what happens at the hearing.
 

TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
Since the children have been split for over two years, don't think she can use that one. She had to have agreed to the split, no? How close in age are the children?

Your X not returning the child is NOT a change of circumstances. If she objected to Colorado, should not the objection have come earlier?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Hi again all - my attorney is now working on the response to the petition for modification. I wanted to see if any of these reasons in her petition are significant enough to warrant a change of custody. It seem like it is pretty tough to change custody based on reading other posts. She filed this document pro se.
Your attorney filed it. Okay.

Her reasons why the order should be changed are:

- I'm not terribly worried about this one, since that same statute allows 30 days to contest the relocation. I think 4 years later is too late, as do some of the posters in this thread.
4 years is too late most likely.


- This is incorrect. Notice was given, and my son was with her during Christmas break and told her we would be moving. Besides, I think once the status quo is established outside of the state, it doesn't matter as much regarding future relocations - but please correct me if I'm wrong. Note: I did NOT provide WRITTEN notice.
YOU LET YOUR SON TELL HER? And you did NOT provide WRITTEN notice? Both are extremely bad moves. You never let a child convey such a thing. And you need to prove that you followed the law in moving.

- Can you use words like terribly in a court document? Anyway - I would prefer to have both children come and live with me. Son has been with me for 4 years, daughter has been with me for 2 of the last 4. And probably more importantly - the CO still says I have primary custody of BOTH CHILDREN.
Yes you can use words like terribly in a court document. You also have forfeited primary custody of daughter IF daughter has been with mother the last two years. Status quo. what the court order says in relation to daughter doesn't matter as much as your actions -- which have included allowing daughter to reside with mother.

- Not true, step-mother is home at 12pm most days, 3pm on 1 day a week. I'm home at 5pm, and we also have 15 yrs ld and 14 yrs step-sisters that are home around 3-4pm.

Oh good grief. Stepmother and stepsiblings are LEGAL STRANGERS. They don't count. Adult supervision? How old is son? that matters and I am not reviewing the entire thread at this point to find that fact.

- Okay, can't argue with that, but not sure if it is significant enough to warrant change of custody.
That alone is not.

- First off - I have only moved once since divorce was finalized. Second - he was enrolled by mom against the CO! Is this a reasonable item? To me is seems almost silly as she is saying I move too much, so what she did to fix that was enroll him in another school! Hopefully at my Sept 16th hearing, the judge will order son returned to me and this point will not be a problem. But again, if I should be worried about this one, please let me know.
You might want to worry about that. Do you have a GAL? Does son want to be with mom?

- I'm pretty sure this is useless. First - son hasn't shown symptoms of asthma for two years. Second, mother has severe asthma and has landed in the hospital multiple days before. Is she trying to say I'm not capable of taking my son to the doctor?
She is trying to say that you do not understand asthma which is different than taking child to the doctor.


- Okay, not sure how this affects custody decision.
Courts do not like to change custody if it is due to child support.

Do NOT underestimate mom.
 

dadcobf

Junior Member
Children are 8 and 9. I had both children initially (for 2 years), but our daughter was having a hard time creating her own identity, and had some self esteem issues. So mom and I TOGETHER decided it might be good to have her spend some one on one time with mom.

So technically, I agreed to let my daughter stay with mom, although we never changed the court order.
 

dadcobf

Junior Member
Hi Ohio - thanks for the comments!

A couple clarifications:
YOU LET YOUR SON TELL HER? And you did NOT provide WRITTEN notice? Both are extremely bad moves. You never let a child convey such a thing. And you need to prove that you followed the law in moving.
I did absolutely tell her. My point is that not only did I tell her, but that son was with her and even if she denies that I told her, one would think that my son would have mentioned it. I agree completely that I should have notified in writing, but at the time mom was talking about moving to Colorado as well and I just never saw any of this coming. I've learned - once this is all done - EVERYTHING will go into writing. Just because and ex is nice to you for a few years doesn't mean they won't lie in the future.

Yes you can use words like terribly in a court document. You also have forfeited primary custody of daughter IF daughter has been with mother the last two years. Status quo. what the court order says in relation to daughter doesn't matter as much as your actions -- which have included allowing daughter to reside with mother.
That was my thought - that it would be hard for me to get my daughter back now. But if the COURT feels that the children should be together, which parent would be more likely to get both children? Does the COURT care if both children are together?


Oh good grief. Stepmother and stepsiblings are LEGAL STRANGERS. They don't count. Adult supervision? How old is son? that matters and I am not reviewing the entire thread at this point to find that fact.
Okay, thank you. I completely understand that they are legal strangers. I thought that a step parent could be considered adult supervision. Is this incorrect?

You might want to worry about that. Do you have a GAL? Does son want to be with mom?
No on both counts. I didn't think it helped me at all if son wanted to stay with me because of all the posts about children not being able to decide where they stay.

Thanks again for the comments!!
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Hi Ohio - thanks for the comments!

A couple clarifications:


I did absolutely tell her. My point is that not only did I tell her, but that son was with her and even if she denies that I told her, one would think that my son would have mentioned it. I agree completely that I should have notified in writing, but at the time mom was talking about moving to Colorado as well and I just never saw any of this coming. I've learned - once this is all done - EVERYTHING will go into writing. Just because and ex is nice to you for a few years doesn't mean they won't lie in the future.
But if it is required to be in writing then you should have given it to her in writing. Plain and simple. And of course keep proof of the writing.

That was my thought - that it would be hard for me to get my daughter back now. But if the COURT feels that the children should be together, which parent would be more likely to get both children? Does the COURT care if both children are together?
The court normally does wnat to keep both children together. Especially if they have a strong relationship and there is no good reason for them to be apart (crimes against one of the siblings by another or extremely strong preferences in which the children are mature enough to convey to a GAL).


Okay, thank you. I completely understand that they are legal strangers. I thought that a step parent could be considered adult supervision. Is this incorrect?
Yep but if mom can provide adult supervision that may very well be preferred by the court than stepmom. Stepmom does NOT compare to mom legally. She could be considered adult supervision however she is a legal stranger and weighing things, mom is more important. HOWEVER you can disprove the allegation that there is NO adult supervision.


No on both counts. I didn't think it helped me at all if son wanted to stay with me because of all the posts about children not being able to decide where they stay.
Children CANNOT DECIDE who they want to be with. If a GAL is involved, they may take into consideration the children's wishes and reasons behind said wishes. Sometimes (and this is a dumb move without extremely important reasons -- i.e. abuse, neglect or something of that nature) the court will grant an incamera. However the children need to be mature and the situation should be serious. Which quite frankly your situation is NOT that serious. Go the GAL route.
 

dadcobf

Junior Member
Hi -

I've only relocated once since the divorce. Also, the court order doesn't require notice for every relocation, just the first one out of AZ which I did not properly document. If there are specific state laws that require written notice for subsequent relocations, then yes, you are correct I did not properly document. I still don't think that gives her the right to just keep my son without seeking modification first.

This all started around June of this year when she said she wanted more time with the children because she 'wasn't able to impress her values on them in the 16 weeks or so she had them each year.' If she really had a problem with the relocation to Colorado, why didn't she mention it back when it was happening in December 2007?

It is also frustrating that everything she is claiming in the documents is completely different than what she was saying verbally. I've learned the lesson though - nothing matters unless it is in writing.
 

dadcobf

Junior Member
Hi all - another couple questions:

1) Does it matter to the court what education the parents have? I have a Master's degree and mom has a high school diploma and a massage license/certificate. Does that matter at all?

2) Mom got speeding ticket in 02, then another in 04 and that time had no auto insurance. Then another speeding ticket in 05. Then in 06, got her Driver's license suspended due to driving on expired license plates and again, not having insurance. Then in November 2007 she got arrested for driving on the suspended driver's license. I believe one of her cars got impounded because around then she called me asking to borrow $2,000 to get the car out. (Incidentally, that is when I mentioned to her that I might be moving to Colorado to get better work because it was tight for me financially in California). Then in Dec 2007, she again was arrested again for driving a different vehicle on the suspended license and with no insurance. My kids told me about her November arrest because they said they got to ride in a police car and it was neat. :rolleyes: Anyway - does the court care about any of this or do only crimes directly against the kids matter?
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
1) Does it matter to the court what education the parents have? I have a Master's degree and mom has a high school diploma and a massage license/certificate. Does that matter at all?

A: No.




2) Mom got speeding ticket in 02, then another in 04 and that time had no auto insurance. Then another speeding ticket in 05. Then in 06, got her Driver's license suspended due to driving on expired license plates and again, not having insurance. Then in November 2007 she got arrested for driving on the suspended driver's license. I believe one of her cars got impounded because around then she called me asking to borrow $2,000 to get the car out. (Incidentally, that is when I mentioned to her that I might be moving to Colorado to get better work because it was tight for me financially in California). Then in Dec 2007, she again was arrested again for driving a different vehicle on the suspended license and with no insurance. My kids told me about her November arrest because they said they got to ride in a police car and it was neat. :rolleyes: Anyway - does the court care about any of this or do only crimes directly against the kids matter?

A: Mom's actions MAY possibly be construed as being dangerous to the kids. Her actions certainly do not help her.
 

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