A friend in need...

[SMinNJ]

I get real tired of people saying they cannot divorce because of religion.

But you know what? The bible also states the role for men and women. It gives work ethic and responsibility for each. I find it ironic that some "fear" filing divorce yet have no problem NOT fulfilling all the other areas of life... according to the Bible.

Dad isn't following the path of a Christian man in his day to day living, so why is filing for divorce such a big deal. The other option is to work harder, pay the creditors, seek counseling and do whatever it takes to repair the family.

He has two choices. He can give up and quit or he can be a true Christian, get off his butt and DO SOMETHING!

You are right that he is not living a Christian walk. That doesn't give him license, however, to disregard all of Christian guidelines. What it calls him to do is to fix what is wrong in his life, as you have said. That is what the men have been counseling him to do. They are not taking lightly his role in this. They are not paying his mortgage for him - that would be the same as helping his wife clean their house. They are not paying any of his bills. They have encouraged him to seek counseling. Someone is putting him up in their house right now, because at the current moment, he has no place to go. But an timeline has been created as to when he needs to have a new place to go. He is not being permitted to live off church charity forever. He has been instructed on how he should have been leading his family.

He has shown a sincere desire to do differently. We are giving him that opportunity.

She has not shown that desire. She has instructed us to leave her alone. She asked one of the church members to watch her kids so that she could go file assault charges against her husband. To assist her would be tantamount to committing the sins ourselves.

 

[CourtClerk]

But you know what? The bible also states the role for men and women. It gives work ethic and responsibility for each.

Ahhh... one of my favorite verses in the bible comes to mind...

If any would not work, neither should he eat.

 

[SMinNJ]

So Dad is too lazy (read, uninvolved in reality) to

1) Clean his filthy house
2) Pay his bills
3) Know what medication his wife is on
4) Know who his wife's mental health professional is
5) See an attorney
6) Hire an attorney to fight an assault charge

BUT he's not too lazy to forcibly keep his wife in the home by stealing her keys and her money.

Of course SHE is the bad guy in the situation because SHE is the unChristian one. Never mind that Dad is not even behaving as an ADULT let alone a 'believer'.

Whatever. They should get as far away from each other as possible and stay that way. The church should BUTT OUT of Mom's life UNLESS SHE ASKS FOR HELP and the kids should be in serious counseling OUTSIDE CHURCH and be exchanged in a public location.

CJane, I have the utmost respect for you. I enjoy your posts, and have learned a lot legally from you.

Dad has retained an attorney. The attorney did not go with him for the assault charge because the attorney said it was not necessary. A low bail was requested and posted.

Dad decided, that night, out of concern for his wife's hysteria, that he should keep her from driving and leaving the house. He did not attack her. He took her keys and her purse. She jumped on his back. The assault she claims is that she was injured when she jumped on his back to keep him from doing this. He did not push her or shove her, nor does she claim that he did. He took her keys and her purse.

She is the bad guy because she is continuing to behave outside of scripture. She is the bad guy because she took his kids away, filed for a restraining order, and refuses to allow him to see his children. She is the bad guy because she, self-admittedly, has spent their money on expensive frivolous items to get back at her husband. She is the bad guy because she refuses to stay on her medication. She is the bad guy because she accepted the responsibility to care for her home, and does not do so. She is the bad guy because she thinks she can show up where her husband is and make a scene and get him in trouble. She is the bad guy because she told her children that without dad in their lives, things will be so much better. She is a bad wife and mother.

Dad is the bad guy because he has not been a husband and leader of his home. Dad is the bad guy because he has been too lazy to learn about his wife's disorder and her treatment, too lazy to get a second job, too lazy to properly discipline his children. He is a bad husband and father.

The church has stepped out of mom's life. Exchanging the kids won't be a problem for a long time, because mom is bound and determined to do anything possible to keep the kids away from him. I agree that the children need counseling, and that will be part of what I recommend to dad, but since mom controls the kids, dad won't have much control. Dad's attorney has told him that nothing can be done about him seeing the kids until the assault charges are cleared, because the court will not remove the TRO until the assault charges are gone.

 

[SMinNJ]

Ahhh... one of my favorite verses in the bible comes to mind...

If any would not work, neither should he eat.

Very good one. It also says that the wife is to be the manager of the household But we expect any husband to do his share of the household

Oh, and that the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

 

[SMinNJ]

I fear that this thread might go into the world of religion, which I did not intend. The facts of the case are that mom has left, filed a tro, filed assault charges, and taken the two minor children. Dad needs to fight the assault charges before he can do anything about seeing the kids.

What does dad need to do in order to prepare to achieve the best possible legal end?

 

[CourtClerk]

Dad is the bad guy because he has not been a husband and leader of his home. Dad is the bad guy because he has been too lazy to learn about his wife's disorder and her treatment, too lazy to get a second job, too lazy to properly discipline his children. He is a bad husband and father.

Relationships and marriages are like houses. If the foundation is no good, the entire house is crap. YOUR bible (and mine) puts a greater responsibility on the man because HE is the HEAD (hence the foundation) of the home. If he's for crap, so is all that stands on it and comes with it.

What does dad need to do in order to prepare to achieve the best possible legal end?

Get a job, get his life together and get a divorce. Everyone else needs to stay out of these grown folk's business. This is 2 pages of talk for someone you, yourself believes won't do anything on his own, and only halfway believes he will take the advice. That's 1 page too many IMO. You, your church buddies and no one else has any power in any of this to change this, make it better or make him do anything. So leave it alone.

THAT'S the theory behind why we don't like third parties asking questions.

 

[stealth2]

What does dad need to do in order to prepare to achieve the best possible legal end?

As was stated in one of the earlier posts - file for divorce.

I fear that this thread might go into the world of religion, which I did not intend.

Well.... who brought up the "unChristian" behavior?

And no, I don't "lump" myself as a Christian. My flavor of Christianity is as old as they come - arguably older than Catholicism.

 

[SMinNJ]

Relationships and marriages are like houses. If the foundation is no good, the entire house is crap. YOUR bible (and mine) puts a greater responsibility on the man because HE is the HEAD (hence the foundation) of the home. If he's for crap, so is all that stands on it and comes with it.


Get a job, get his life together and get a divorce. Everyone else needs to stay out of these grown folk's business. This is 2 pages of talk for someone you, yourself believes won't do anything on his own, and only halfway believes he will take the advice. That's 1 page too many IMO. You, your church buddies and no one else has any power in any of this to change this, make it better or make him do anything. So leave it alone.

THAT'S the theory behind why we don't like third parties asking questions.

Thank you.

 

[majomom1]

I fear that this thread might go into the world of religion, which I did not intend. The facts of the case are that mom has left, filed a tro, filed assault charges, and taken the two minor children. Dad needs to fight the assault charges before he can do anything about seeing the kids.

What does dad need to do in order to prepare to achieve the best possible legal end?

Actually - it has nothing to do with religion at all. This is plain old common sense.

Bible, or no Bible... one has to act and make choices. Too many folks use the Bible, as an excuse, NOT to do something.

The court will not care about all the religion either. Dad's actions, or inaction, will be a huge factor. He needs to get a job and take care of the adult responsibilties, or at least show a good faith attempt at doing it.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I'm going to address the messy house:

there is a website that offers assistance to those who may be organizationally challenged: www.flylady.net. There are folks who just are plain born organized. They go from start to finish without blinking an eye. Then, there are some who are not. I fall in that category. Her philosophy is that you can do anything for 15 minutes. Your messy house didn't get that way overnight. It isn't going to get clean overnight. Yes, you can have the church ladies come in and help untrash it, but, unless there are routines in place to help maintain it, it will go back to the way it was. Harping on the issue will not help.

What the children are experiencing is CHAOS: Can't have anyone over syndrome.

I recommend this site to BOTH parents. My house is company ready all the time now. The key was learning to pick up behind myself. I was no longer asking for others to do what I was not willing to do. I am not embarrassed with my house anymore. I've learned routines to keep it that way.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Have them check out the website.

 

[SMinNJ]

I'm going to address the messy house:

there is a website that offers assistance to those who may be organizationally challenged: FlyLady.net: Your personal online coach to help you gain control of your house and home. There are folks who just are plain born organized. They go from start to finish without blinking an eye. Then, there are some who are not. I fall in that category. Her philosophy is that you can do anything for 15 minutes. Your messy house didn't get that way overnight. It isn't going to get clean overnight. Yes, you can have the church ladies come in and help untrash it, but, unless there are routines in place to help maintain it, it will go back to the way it was. Harping on the issue will not help.

What the children are experiencing is CHAOS: Can't have anyone over syndrome.

I recommend this site to BOTH parents. My house is company ready all the time now. The key was learning to pick up behind myself. I was no longer asking for others to do what I was not willing to do. I am not embarrassed with my house anymore. I've learned routines to keep it that way.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Have them check out the website.

Thank you for this site - I myself am a flybaby, have been visiting the site and reading the emails for about a year. It was recommended to me by another church lady, and both she and I have passed it on about six months ago, because I totally agree with its ideology.

This truly is a fantastic plan - be ready though, because you get an awful lot of emails...

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

There is the power of the delete button.

It is more the philosophy behind it that I think might help both mom and dad in all areas of their lives. Do I fall off the wagon? Sure I do. But I don't beat up myself about it anymore. I just pick up where I left off and go from there.

I also discovered an organization who comes to my door to pick up items that can bless others. There is a tax donation for this house and less stuff.

 

[Ohiogal]

I fear that this thread might go into the world of religion, which I did not intend. The facts of the case are that mom has left, filed a tro, filed assault charges, and taken the two minor children. Dad needs to fight the assault charges before he can do anything about seeing the kids.

What does dad need to do in order to prepare to achieve the best possible legal end?

The problem is he committed assault. He had NO right to take her keys and purse. He also probably committed wrongful imprisonment if he prevented her from leaving the house. Dad needs to talk to his attorney.

 

[wileybunch]

Wish him a good life and pray for him.
And, if his kids seem to be being abused or neglected, call CPS.
Beyond that, I don't see a role for you to help him (unless you are putting him up for a time or that sort of thing). He has to want to help himself first and since you say he's too lazy, etc., it's you and your friends doing all the work. The reality is, he has to want it himself.

P.S. I would have taken the keys and wallet from my spouse if he were acting a danger to himself or others, but the reality with this guy is he needed to be knocked over the head to deal with reality. And, even then, he STILL isn't dealing with reality. If he loses his kids or gets a raw deal after making his own choices, it is what it is.

 

[AHA]

Whoever claims that Bible verses are more important than the well being of children needs serious talking to.
This couple clearly cannot do well and raise happy healthy children together in the condition they are in. Better to have to happy dicorced parents than two miserable and dangerous ones under the same roof.
CHILDREN FIRST, BOOK WAAAAY DOWN THE LIST.