What next?

[ConcernInMA]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MA

Hi - I am writing on behalf of my friend's daughter. She became pregnant at 18, married the child's father and they've been living with his parents. The child is now just under 1 year old and the couple has split due to his verbal abuse. She has left the home with her daughter and some of their things. Now, the father and his parents (the grandparents) are demanding that the mom grant visitation starting immediately for two consecutive nights. She is still nursing and told them she is not yet comfortable and she would be ok for one night a week and another day later in the week. The reaction from them has been harsh. First, her husband called her to scream and insult her. THEN the grandparents called to tell her that they will be picking up the baby on a certain day and bringing her back two days later, and that if she doesn't agree, they will then fight for custody. This came from her father-in-law's mouth, as her husband refuses to speak to her.

She has no problems with granting visitaiton, but she is hesitant for now because she nurses and is taken aback at their demanding to see their daughter/granddaughter with no regard for her wishes. The demand from her father in law was quite harsh.

Obviously, they need to establish a separation/custody/visitation agreement ASAP, but in the meantime, what should she do? As the primary care-taker of the child, what does she have a right to agree to (or not) until the temporary orders are established? I am appauled that the custody threat came from her father-in-law, but as a young mother, she is concerned that she might lose custody, which I assured her would not happen. She doesn't work (will be getting her GED at the end of the month) but is staying with relatives while she figures things out. The dad works and goes to school while living with his parents and has never really done much, if any, of the caregiving to the baby.

I guess our question is, until temporary orders are issued, what is the implicit custody/visitation law between a married couple? By the way, he refuses to give her any of the baby's legal documents such as the birth certificate and passport "because he paid for it."

 

[Ohiogal]

Hi - I am writing on behalf of my friend's daughter. She became pregnant at 18, married the child's father and they've been living with his parents. The child is now just under 1 year old and the couple has split due to his verbal abuse. She has left the home with her daughter and some of their things.

His daughter as well. Some of their things such as?

Now, the father and his parents (the grandparents) are demanding that the mom grant visitation starting immediately for two consecutive nights.

Visitation? Try dad has joint custody.

She is still nursing and told them she is not yet comfortable and she would be ok for one night a week and another day later in the week.

Oh well. She can pump and bottle feed the child. Don't care if SHE is comfortable. She needs to get over it.

The reaction from them has been harsh. First, her husband called her to scream and insult her. THEN the grandparents called to tell her that they will be picking up the baby on a certain day and bringing her back two days later, and that if she doesn't agree, they will then fight for custody. This came from her father-in-law's mouth, as her husband refuses to speak to her.

How about SHE grow up and realize SHE does not get to dictate and this will go badly for her if she keeps this attitude in court.

She has no problems with granting visitaiton,

GRANTING visitation? Give me a break.

but she is hesitant for now because she nurses and is taken aback at their demanding to see their daughter/granddaughter with no regard for her wishes. The demand from her father in law was quite harsh.

Tell her to pump. The child is a year old and should be on table food and going to milk soon.

Obviously, they need to establish a separation/custody/visitation agreement ASAP, but in the meantime, what should she do? As the primary care-taker of the child, what does she have a right to agree to (or not) until the temporary orders are established?

She needs to get over herself quite frankly. She doesn't have to let dad see his child but she needs to realize that once the court gets involved she loses all control and doesn't have any options but to follow the order or risk losing custody entirely.

I am appauled that the custody threat came from her father-in-law, but as a young mother, she is concerned that she might lose custody, which I assured her would not happen.

Really? You should not have assured her of that.

She doesn't work (will be getting her GED at the end of the month) but is staying with relatives while she figures things out. The dad works and goes to school while living with his parents and has never really done much, if any, of the caregiving to the baby.

Based on her word?

I guess our question is, until temporary orders are issued, what is the implicit custody/visitation law between a married couple?

They have JOINT custody.

By the way, he refuses to give her any of the baby's legal documents such as the birth certificate and passport "because he paid for it."

By the way he doesn't have to give her any of it. She can go buy her own copy of the birth certificate.

 

[ConcernInMA]

OhioGal, thanks for your reply, but I don't understand the attitude?

Maybe I worded things wrong, but she doesn't have a problem with sharing custody and/or visitation. Her husband will not talk to her and only insults her, and HIS father is the one claiming they will fight for custody. She is fine with sharing custody, and starting visitation right away. The question is, until temporary orders are established, what are her obligations TODAY regarding the demand that she accomodate them at every turn? She has agreed to either two nights every other week and a day in between OR one night a week every week plus any extra time as well.

And I am sure she will not lose custody of her child. She may end up sharing legal AND physical custody, but there is no way she will lose it. So I am comfortable with that.

Seriously, why the attitude?

 

[Ohiogal]

OhioGal, thanks for your reply, but I don't understand the attitude?

No attitude there.

Maybe I worded things wrong, but she doesn't have a problem with sharing custody and/or visitation. Her husband will not talk to her and only insults her, and HIS father is the one claiming they will fight for custody. She is fine with sharing custody, and starting visitation right away.

Is she willing to have visitation? Consider that term. The proper term is companionship.

The question is, until temporary orders are established, what are her obligations TODAY regarding the demand that she accomodate them at every turn?

Nope.

She has agreed to either two nights every other week and a day in between OR one night a week every week plus any extra time as well.

And that is not what dad wants apparently. She has agreed only to what she wants.

And I am sure she will not lose custody of her child. She may end up sharing legal AND physical custody, but there is no way she will lose it. So I am comfortable with that.

If she takes her attitude that because she is nursing dad doesn't have a right to be with the child, she will lose custody. If she doesn't follow temporary orders she WILL lose custody. There are MANY WAYS she will lose custody so hopefully she doesn't get too comfortable with that.

 

[ConcernInMA]

Ok, once again, maybe I'm just not being clear. First of all, excuse me for not using the correct terms, as you say. This is all new.

Facts:

1. Mom and dad have separated, but they demanded she leave baby's passport before she walked out the door. She did so to avoid a conflict as she has no intention of taking the baby out of the country.
2. Mom took child to stay at relatives'
3. When Father in Law called to establish visitation, she offered two nights every other week and an additional day in between OR one night every week plus 1-2 days in between until they have temporary orders.
4. Father in law said NO and demanded 1/2 week every week.
5. At that point, mom said no, I am not agreeing to that. She is nursing, yes, so she didn't want to go longer than 2 nights.
6. Dad called and insulted her.
7. Then Father in Law called and said, "We are coming on Monday to take her through Wednesday and if you don't comply, we will seek custody."
8. She has no attitude. They are the ones who don't want to be flexible.

If she takes her attitude that because she is nursing dad doesn't have a right to be with the child, she will lose custody. If she doesn't follow temporary orders she WILL lose custody. There are MANY WAYS she will lose custody so hopefully she doesn't get too comfortable with that.

Ohiogal, you ASSUME a lot of things. She IS NOT in any way saying dad doesn't have a right to be with child. Where did I say that? Also, you assume she is not complying with temporary orders...there ARE NO temporary orders yet but she has no intention of violating any when there are. She understands the fathers' rights, of course. But she does not want to be manipulated and ordered by her in-laws and their schedule (they are the ones who happen to be off on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays). Shouldn't the dad be the one to show interest in his child?

Did I somehow insinuate that she is denying dad his rights? Because that's not what is happening at all.

 

[LdiJ]

I haven't read any of the other responses, on purpose.

I can almost guarantee that if she allows them to pick up the baby now, that they will NOT give the baby back at all.

I think that mom needs to immediately file for divorce and temporary custody orders, with a visitation schedule for dad. I think that something enforceable needs to be in place ASAP.

She can allow them to visit in her home until then, with other adults present.

The fact that the father in law is being so harsh, and threatening to file for custody, indicates that the father in law, at least, does not recognize his place.

 

[stealth2]

Actually, it sounds as though both sides are being inflexible. My only advice - until she actually gets on here and asks her own questions (sorry, but third-hand accounts are rarely even close to accurate) - is that she needs to deal with her stbx, not his father.

 

[ConcernInMA]

I haven't read any of the other responses, on purpose.

I can almost guarantee that if she allows them to pick up the baby now, that they will NOT give the baby back at all.

I think that mom needs to immediately file for divorce and temporary custody orders, with a visitation schedule for dad. I think that something enforceable needs to be in place ASAP.

She can allow them to visit in her home until then, with other adults present.

The fact that the father in law is being so harsh, and threatening to file for custody, indicates that the father in law, at least, does not recognize his place.

Hi - the grandfather is from another country and they all just visited there over the summer (mom and baby included), which is why she has a passport. Mom is a little concerned about that, as they demanded she give them baby's passport when she left. I don't know how realistic it is to worry about kidnapping to another country, but she has expressed fear that they will not return the child. We have encouraged her to seek legal counsel immediately to establish something enforceable and realistic. My question was about what does she do now until that is in place? They are demanding she let them take the baby now. Again, she has no issues with that and does not deny the dad's rights at all, but she is fearful because of the threats.

Actually, it sounds as though both sides are being inflexible. My only advice - until she actually gets on here and asks her own questions (sorry, but third-hand accounts are rarely even close to accurate) - is that she needs to deal with her stbx, not his father.

Definitely here. They are BOTH young and immature, but she did make it clear that she no longer will have conversations about this issue with her father in law, only with her baby's father, with whom custody and visitation is shared at this time.
And you're right, I will recommend that she visit this site - except that she has now computer right now. thx again.

 

[Ohiogal]

What country? It is extremely hard to get an infant out of the country without permission from both parents and a passport is NOT permission.

 

[LdiJ]

Hi - the grandfather is from another country and they all just visited there over the summer (mom and baby included), which is why she has a passport. Mom is a little concerned about that, as they demanded she give them baby's passport when she left. I don't know how realistic it is to worry about kidnapping to another country, but she has expressed fear that they will not return the child. We have encouraged her to seek legal counsel immediately to establish something enforceable and realistic. My question was about what does she do now until that is in place? They are demanding she let them take the baby now. Again, she has no issues with that and does not deny the dad's rights at all, but she is fearful because of the threats.



Definitely here. They are BOTH young and immature, but she did make it clear that she no longer will have conversations about this issue with her father in law, only with her baby's father, with whom custody and visitation is shared at this time.
And you're right, I will recommend that she visit this site - except that she has now computer right now. thx again.

She can have the baby's passport flagged so that they cannot leave the country with her, without her permission.

However, that is one more reason to get enforceable orders ASAP, and to ask the judge to order dad to hand over the passport to mom.

 

[ConcernInMA]

What country? It is extremely hard to get an infant out of the country without permission from both parents and a passport is NOT permission.

Costa Rica. I don't think she is too concerned about that, but the thoght crossed her mind. She is trying to find legal aid as we speak. She also told her husband that he can take the baby overnight tonight and that she'd like to discuss a mutually agreed upon schedule that is fair and reasonable. First, he said ok. He just called her now and told her he will not take the child today.

Hopefully she will get an attorney, but she has no money at all and completely depended on him. Like I said, they are young, and she stayed home and studied to get her GED which she is getting at the end of this month. He has also continued going to school and works a few nights a week. I hope she can get low-cost legal counsel soon. No doubt, his parents will help him get a good attorney, which is understandable and fine. I just worry about what she will be able to afford.

She can have the baby's passport flagged so that they cannot leave the country with her, without her permission.

Thanks, I'll let her know so she can look into this just in case.